IRS paid 1,100 of its employees bonuses although they owed back taxes

[alp227]

Last edited Wed Apr 23, 2014, 03:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON --Failure to pay taxes usually is bad news for most Americans, but apparently not for some employees of the Internal Revenue Service –-they received performance bonuses from the agency despite failing to submit what they owed.

The IRS paid a total of about $1.1 million in bonuses over approximately a two-year period to more than 1,100 employees who had been disciplined for "substantiated federal tax compliance problems," according to an inspector general's report.

Those employees also received awards of more than 10,000 hours of extra time off and 69 faster-than-normal pay grade increases. They were among more than 2,800 IRS employees during that period who got performance awards within one year of disciplinary action, such as suspensions or written reprimands, the report found.

The performance awards did not violate the law, said J. Russell George, the Treasury inspector general for tax administration.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-irs-taxes-bonuses-20140423,0,876215.story

---

Fixed link

[ebbie15644]

1. I don't understand why they are getting bonuses at all

I worked for local and state government and never even got a Christmas certificate as a gift let alone a bonus.

[joeglow3]

2. Because they are competing with the private sector for talent.

[Psephos]

10. How many people in the private sector are getting bonuses these days?

Besides the banksters?

Not many.

[joeglow3]

13. I am a tax accountant and a LOT are

I am getting them.

[former9thward]

24. People at the IRS could not get similar jobs in the private sector.

So, no they are not competing. That is BS.

[joeglow3]

31. Bull shit they couldn't

I am a tax CPA. People I graduated with went to work there. The company I work for is part of their CAP program and I work daily with an IRS agent who just left a CPA firm to work for the IRS. But thanks for talking out of your ass.

[former9thward]

33. I will give you my experience with IRS employees.

I have been audited two times in the last three years. First audit they said I owed $8000 in back taxes and penalties. Last year they said I owed $3000 in back taxes in penalties. Both cases arose over stock sales. In both cases the IRS employee I was dealing with thought you got stock for free. So when you sold it, all was profit. I had to explain that you had to buy stock and you subtract that price from your sales price.

After the first audit I got a check from the IRS for $187 because originally I hadn't bothered to take a credit. The second audit ended a couple weeks ago when they sent me a notice saying my tax bill was $0.

But you think these people could get jobs in the private sector. Well maybe working for you but nowhere else.

[joeglow3]

36. I will give you my experience with IRS employees.

I work for a Fortune 500 company that is under continuous audit with the IRS. For the first few years, we were under a post file examination. We were then admitted to the Compliance Assurance Process (CAP) program, which is where we have been for the last 4 years. The IRS has a permanent office in our building with anywhere from 1-12 people on site every day.

That said, your example explains EXACTLY why the IRS is beginning to offer bonuses. When they are not competitive, they end up with morons like you dealt with.

But go ahead and try to insult the multi billion dollar company I work for and pretend like your stock sales of five figures gets the attention of the Service's best and brightest.

[former9thward]

38. So only the Fortune 500 gets "best and the brightest".

The rest of us scum just have to put up with the "morons" as you called them. Yeah, I know where you are coming from.

[hack89]

40. The Fortune 500 are the best tax cheats

they need the best auditors to get that money. Given the amounts the corporations are stealing from us, I would rather the best IRS employees focus on the corporations.

[joeglow3]

41. So, ALL IRS agents are mouth breathing morons

They are only qualified to work for the IRS and my company? I know where you are coming from as well.

[former9thward]

42. You are the only one in this thread to use the word "moron".

Apparently in your world they are "the best and the brightest" or they are a "moron".

[joeglow3]

43. You said they were ONLY qualified to work for the Service (and my company).

Please go back and re-read what you wrote and tell me what adjective best describes what you posted.

[former9thward]

45. Sorry I am not in the name calling business.

I leave that to you.

[joeglow3]

46. No. You just describe what you think of them.

That way, you can make the same terrible claim, but can feign ignorance when called on it.

[former9thward]

47. I did not describe what I thought of them.

I gave the facts of my experience. You then made the characterization.

[joeglow3]

48. What did you mean when you said they were qualified to work nowhere else?

[former9thward]

49. I will tell you when you cut and paste showing I made that statement.

I never said "they were qualified to work nowhere else."

[wickerwoman]

50. OK

"People at the IRS could not get similar jobs in the private sector." Post 24

"But you think these people could get jobs in the private sector. Well maybe working for you but nowhere else." Post 33.

[former9thward]

51. That is not the statement you posted.

I said similar jobs. You said any jobs. A big difference.

[wickerwoman]

52. Alternately,

you could just gracefully admit that in anger you posted something factually incorrect and have been called on it by a number of posters.

[former9thward]

54. I have had a conversation with one poster.

Don't know who the "number of posters" are. I posted my factual experience. The IRS employees I have interacted with should not be working anywhere in that type of job. That is a fact.

[joeglow3]

53. Keep spinning

Many others here have noticed it too. You make convince yourself that you have talked your way out it, but no one else is convinced.

[former9thward]

55. I am not trying to "talk my way out of it".

"Many others here have noticed it too." I guess you have appointed yourself to speak for the "many". You are someone who thinks people who work for the government can do no wrong. So you just put your head in the sand.

[joeglow3]

57. You are absolutely amazing.

Show me where I said government workers can do no wrong. I simply said the IRS is competing with accounting firms for top talent. YOU then said that based on two experiences with a couple agents that none of the 100,000+ agents are qualified to work in a tax/accounting job outside of the service.

What is laughable is I manage the real time audit for a billion dollar company and YOU claim to have more in depth experiences with the IRS.

[former9thward]

58. You continue to make stuff up.

I never said "I have more in depth experiences with the IRS". I said what my experiences were. Whatever you say that's what you say. As with me. This being an anonymous board we can say anything. Maybe it is true, maybe is it total BS. All I can give is my general opinion -- which counts as much as yours, Fortune 500 and all. Maybe you are working out of a garage. Maybe I have never paid taxes in my life. No one can know. Unless we both go over performance reviews and backgrounds of 100,000 people we have to give generalized opinions.

[joeglow3]

59. You are free to use common sense

No rational person thinks none of 100,000+ employees is qualified to work in an accounting/tax job outside of the service.

[joeglow3]

62. I found another company where ex agents work

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=4&hp&

[former9thward]

63. Well you are correct that the F 500 are snatching up the bright people.

Maybe they should do some training before they all leave.

[jberryhill]

34. My tax attorney is a former IRS agent

[former9thward]

35. See post #33

I hope you have a good attorney no matter what he/she did in the past.

[wickerwoman]

39. More than 100,000 people work for the IRS.

Your experience with one of them doesn't speak to the professional competence of everyone in the entire organisation.

Most IRS agents have degrees in accounting and could use them to compete on the open market if they chose.

[joeglow3]

44. A lot do leave

They work for the Service for a few years to get experience and then dart for better money.

[srican69]

3. 1000 dollars a head .. bonus based on performance not owed taxes... why is this even a news item?

sigh !

[wickerwoman]

11. Because it's an excuse to crap on government employees?

Name one company ever that withheld a performance bonus because the employee owed back taxes? The one has nothing to do with the other. If they have a union contract, it probably stipulates the circumstances under which they should be given bonuses. If they are on contract, then it would be breaching that contract not to give the bonuses for unrelated reasons.

[Live and Learn]

21. +1 nt

[Le Taz Hot]

22. Boy, ain't that the truth.

I had NO IDEA there were so many anti-gummit people on this site. I found out yesterday just how many. Holy shit!

[sendero]

23. You could look at it that way...

... or you could wonder why an agency that is famous for bulldozer tactics to collect back taxes cannot apply that to their own employees. Seems like a double standard to me. And frankly, I have a very low opinion of people who don't pay their taxes to begin with. If I ran the IRS and you wouldn't pay your taxes, you would not be working for the IRS, period.

[wickerwoman]

37. They do.

IRS agents can be fired for filing their returns late, let alone owing back taxes.

I have a low opinion of people who don't pay their taxes as well, but I also think that we need to maintain a wall between people's personal lives and their employed lives. I don't think people should be able to be fired or have their bonuses revoked because they smoke or drink or eat too much or gamble or watch porn in their free time *as long as it has no impact on their work performance*.

Owing back taxes is bad (although it can also be the result of a misunderstanding). But I don't think it impacts work performance and any half decent employment contract would make that distinction when it comes to performance bonuses.

I also think an organisation like the IRS needs to maintain firewalls between information that it gathers for one purpose (to collect taxes) and other possible uses of that information (assessing employee performance). I don't think it's ethical for HR to access that information and use it for reasons other than what it was intended for. It's like someone working for a medical insurance company losing their job because HR found out through their claims that they had HIV or cancer.

[Enrique]

18. and that's over a two year period

i agree with you, this is a non-story.

[srican69]

19. I would feel insulted if my manager gave me a $1000 bonus..

I doesn't even cover the extra expenses during holiday season...

[former9thward]

25. I'm sure they will be returning the bonus.

Afterall they would not want to be "insulted".

[Nye Bevan]

56. I'm sure that *every* DUer would be *deeply* insulted by a $1000 bonus. (nt)

[srican69]

61. they should be ..if they routinely work long hours without overtime

And the bonus is the only mechanism to reward that effort

[jberryhill]

27. Scratching my head over this one too

How many bank employees are late on their bank-issued credit cards.

Their personal business, and their job performance, are two different things.

[JoePhilly]

4. I had a dispute with the IRS a few years back ... should my company have withheld my

bonus?

It took me about 6 months to get it totally straightened out. My wife had left her job mid-year, and the next year her employer sent us a W-2 that was wrong. It differed significantly from what they sent the government.

I'd have been pretty angry if my company didn't give me the bonus that I was supposed to receive for my work ... I earned it.

Do we really want ANY employer, even the government, withholding pay, because of a disagreement about one's tax situation?

Sure, if you go to court and LOSE, then maybe they take from your wages as part of the legal settlement. But if that's not the case, I'd be against them withholding bonus for this reason.

[Bonduel]

14. If one of my collection employees owed money to a subcontractor of ours

and I was having them be tough on the same sub for money owed to my company, you can bet I would hold a bonus back until it was cleared up. It becomes very difficult for me to look a sub in the eye and tell them they need to pay their bills when people in my own collection department owe them money.

[JoePhilly]

15. Totally different situation. Government is not involved.

[Bonduel]

16. and your example above is a different situation as well

I wouldn't care if one of my employees owed taxes to the government because he doesn't work for the government. He works for me. These people have a job that collects taxes from people and they don't like it when you don't pay. Yet they have people who work for them who aren't paying their taxes. I don't think they should lose their job but I also don't think they should get a bonus until this is cleared up.

[JoePhilly]

17. Actually, in your example ... your employee might be able to sue you.

Let's say you work for me. I have a construction company and I sub-contract some areas, like plumbing. You are my employee, and you get one of the sub-contractors I use to help you do renovations on your home. That arrangement is 100% between you and that sub. My business is not involved.

Now, if you and that sub-contractor get into a dispute over who owes who ... I am not involved in any way. And, if I include bonuses as part of your total compensation, and that bonus is based on your performance as my employee, that money is yours, and I can not withhold it from you if you and that sub contract have a dispute. My business is not part of it.

Now, back to the government. If an IRS employee is having a dispute over how much taxes they have paid, you can't withhold their earnings. Or, I guess we think the government should be able to just stop paying them altogether. The bonus is part of their total compensation. You can no more withhold that, they you can stop paying their medical benefits that are also part of the job.

To do so is basically extortion.

[Bonduel]

28. Well I don't know what their bonus situation is

but I completely control the bonuses I give out. All of my employees know that they may or may not get a bonus. There is no set amount or even a promise that they will get one. And actually my example is flawed in that my employee would not owe the money to a sub but back to me. Now, I admit, there could be an agreement on paying a debt back to me but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case here. If my employee owes me money that he is suppose to pay me but doesn't I will certainly hold back a possible bonus he might get until it is cleared up.

[MattP]

5. So will Fox news be celebrating these patriots?

[meanit]

6. Sounds like this came from FOX news

n/t

[CreekDog]

7. this LBN post is a mess and the link doesn't work

the link is Google but the source is LA Times?

[Dr. Strange]

8. Yeah, that is weird.

This appears to be the actual link:
http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-irs-taxes-bonuses-20140423,0,876215.story#axzz2zjj1agxX

[Pterodactyl]

12. Well, that's just stupid.

[Supersedeas]

64. why is everyone in Washington so out of touch?

[Pterodactyl]

65. Because they are not held accountable.

In the private sector, having legal problems and committing crimes could endanger employment.

Same thing with Hollywood and sports. There are not enough penalties for bad behavior.

[Sunlei]

20. some corporation better not be havin' dreams of a private 'for profit' IRS. That would be worse than

what we have today.

[jberryhill]

26. What does one have to do with the other?

They are paid bonuses based on their job performance, just like other employees.

They aren't working for the "company store". Their personal money management issues are not a job performance criterion.

This is a complete non-issue.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

30. Agree. As pointed out upthread ...

... just another excuse to shit on those evil gubmit employess.

[darkangel218]

29. Could Bundy have gotten away with it if he was an IRS agent?

Jk

[Calista241]

32. Wages

Unless their wages are being garnished, the IRS has no legal ability to withhold any earned or entitled income.

[DiverDave]

60. I owed back taxes, they took my refund until

the debt was satisfied.
for years, I didn't get my refund, I paid them back...
WTF is so different that THEY get bonuses? Fairness demands they take any refunds
or bonuses until the back taxes are paid.