Thousands Block Far-Right March In Berlin

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

BERLIN (AP) -- Thousands of Berliners have blocked a group of right-wing extremists from staging a march through the German capital.

Police say some 2,000 people stood in the way of the planned route of a demonstration organized Saturday by the far-right National Democratic Party.

The party, known by its acronym NPD, had planned to march through Berlin's Kreuzberg district, which has a large immigrant population. Germany's security services say the party has a racist, xenophobic and anti-Semitic agenda.

Police spokesman Thomas Neuendorf says the 100 far-right activists were able to proceed only for a couple of hundred meters (yards) before their path was blocked and "it's unlikely they'll get any further today."



Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_GERMANY_FAR_RIGHT_MARCH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-04-26-09-26-28

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[skepticscott]

1. Not sure why you're applauding

the suppression of a peaceful demonstration by weight of numbers. Is that only applauded when the speech is expressing views you find offensive?

[Democracyinkind]

2. Both parties were well within the sphere of their rights.

The citizens of Kreuzberg have every right to counterprotest a Nazi march. Though luck for the Nazis if their numbers are so ridiculously small. If they want to protest without attracting counterprotests, they might as well just do that in the few communities in Thüringen where popular sentiment will stand for it.

The Nazis try to do the same every 1st of May. They just don't have the numbers to pull it off.

[skepticscott]

3. A counter protest is one thing

Interfering physically with the right of free movement of a group of peaceful demonstrators is another, regardless of the viewpoints they're espousing. If the situation had been reversed, would this still be something to applaud?

[Democracyinkind]

5. Yes I would applaud.

Gathering thousands of people peacefully on the street to express their political views is the very essence of democracy as practiced in Europe. I used to be part of such protests in my youth and I see nothing wrong with them.

What would you want? Bringing in the Army to clear the streets? Short of that there was simply no way that this march was going to happen.

This is a regular occurance in Germany. I really don't see the problem. The Nazis had their Demo, just not their provocative march.

The equivalent in the US would be something like the KKK trying to march through the suburbs of Detroit. I doubt that that would be possible.

[penultimate]

14. I think he's saying what if the march was for LGBT rights, and a group of religious bigots

came out in force to block it. Would you support their actions? Not their message, but their actions? I think a counter protest is great to show the far-rightist that their beliefs are not supported by most. I don't think l can agree with breaking the system so other's can't use it though.

[Democracyinkind]

17. I know that that was what he was asking.

And in that case I wouldn't applaud, of course. But I would view it as a form of politically motivated civil disobediance and I would let them do it without using force to hinder them, given that they would be non-violent and would not actively be inciting riots.

[penultimate]

33. Fair enough.

Not sure I agree though. I wouldn't be happy if my group or a group of people I support were blocked/silenced by a larger group. While I'm not shedding any tears for the far-rightest having their party ruined, I can't help but wonder about the wider implications of it. I appreciate the fact that your stance is consistent though.

[Democracyinkind]

34. As an addendum...

The Nazis had their little march in another location later. It was not as much a protest to silence but a protest that said "not here!".

The place where the march was planned originally was Kreuzberg, which is the prototypical immigrant district of Berlin.

[RedCloud]

35. And if they want to peacefully espouse your or my death?

If they plot our own destruction?
If cannibals explain peacefully how to capture and then dismember us for their soup?

How far will you let them go until it's too late?

And what if every time they go unblocked a Third Reich emerges?

[backscatter712]

8. The neo-Nazis weren't necessarily within their rights under German law.

Germany is not the United States. They outright ban certain parties and political views there, namely Nazi parties and political views.

Sounds like this NPD is doing its best to skate around the laws in Germany that ban the display of swastikas and the promotion of the Nazi party.

The German government has tried to ban the NPD several times. Sooner or later, they'll succeed.

[Democracyinkind]

9. The NPd, at this point, is still a prefectly legal, if despicable, party.

There is currently a new push to illegalize them, but it doesn't have a huge backing. Of course my comment would have been entirely different if we were talking about a march by an illegal party.

[Purveyor]

11. Yes. eom

[socialist_n_TN]

12. Because fascists need to be stopped and countered at EACH AND EVERY TURN.......

otherwise they ALWAYS take the next step. That's history. When they take enough steps, communists, socialists, and unionists are imprisoned or killed first, then everybody else that not on their "approved" list. I'd rather stop them at step one.

Those militia fucks in Nevada are a perfect example. They think they "run off" the feds (actually I guess they DID run off the feds) and now they've set up checkpoints in the area looking for God knows what, but I'm sure they'll know it when they see it.

[geretogo]

13. 1000 +

[skepticscott]

16. So you're in favor of depriving people of their legal and civil rights

even though they're not doing anything illegal, because of what you're afraid they'll do in the future if you don't?

Um..ok...do you know how many times that argument and that fear has been used to oppress? Would you accept that argument if it were used by the political right against liberals?

[RobertEarl]

20. Pretty simple really

The nazi's have some free speech, they were just shouted down by more numerous voices. The nazi's should be very happy they weren't beat up by the overwhelming crowd. The people have spoken. I don't see a problem with that.

[skepticscott]

32. Sorry, wrong

As I posted very clearly above, this was not just about a counter protest, meeting speech they didn't like with something else. There would have been nothing wrong with that. But this was about physically preventing another group that was exercising their legal rights from going where they wanted. The same tactic that has been used against liberal protesters at the last few Republican conventions, where they were confined to designated "protest zones" far removed from where they wanted to demonstrate. Do you think THAT tactic was perfectly fine?

[socialist_n_TN]

31. Express whatever the fuck you want........

But if it's fascist, I will personally try to outshout you BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN FASCISTS ARE NOT COUNTERED. I will fight fascism any way I can.

But then I'm a commie. I'm the very FIRST one the fascists come after when they get power. BEFORE the Jews, before people of color, before LGBT, before ANYONE else, the fascists come after commies, socialists, and unionists because they know that these people are the ONLY ones who can lead an effective, organized resistance to their ideology.

So yeah, I'm in favor of ANY methods to fight fascism, much less purely peaceful ones of simply outshouting them.

[rug]

18. Not sure why you think neo-Nazis are peaceful.

[Diclotican]

19. skepticscott

skepticscott

You are free to express whatever you want to express - but others have the same right to express their disdain for whatever you is expressing - and the same goes for this demonstration against the far Right - Germany have a painfully experience with the far right - going back almost a century and more - and I guess americans have yet to experience the same painfully experience for what far Right is capable of doing - if they got the real power to do it...

Freedom of Expressions have it's limits - in most of Europe it does have limits to what you can say - and do - in the US you are still to experience what REAL far right can do when they came to power - so many, if not most americans just do not know - or understand what responsibility it is to have freedom of Expression - they take it for granted - and many are misusing it for everything it's worth I would say - just look what have become of what once was called News in the US - not to say, what have become of Fox News - who spew propaganda for the far right 24/7 365 days a year - and can lie on TV - defensed by your constitution no less... And most of the AM radio band is fulled by hatefully angry persons who's spew the same hatefully message all over the board - from coast to coast...

When you, in your collective mind have the experience of what the far right can do - as they did in Germany between 1914 and 1945 - you are somewhat more sensible to what is "okay" and what is not "okay" than most others do - even as the far right do have the same duty's and rights as the rest of the political spectrum - most europe ran know - it is some limits to express their view in public at least - an the far right in Germany even after the unification of the two German States in 1993 - do have a track record of violence against everyone they look at as "foreign" as rather bad....


Most of what is "protected" by the US definition of "freedom of speech" specially from the far right in the US, would never fly very far in Europe - in most cases they would have ended in mental hospitals because their madness, should and must be treated with medications - in US you give them power - in Europe we give them shelter - a bed and medication so they might be well again - and continue their way - as healty persons...

[Sognefjord]

25. We can mostly say what we like here but it doesn't make much difference.

It also is odd that we in the US have a far right without a corresponding far left. I wonder what Hegel (or Newton) would have to say about that. There is a book by Werner Sombart that goes into this oddity but I haven't read it yet.

[Diclotican]

26. Sognefjord

Sognefjord

That's a whole different problem, you might be allowed to say what you want to say - but if no one take you up on the word - it looks like it is just a waste of time.... And the US have no corresponding far left - the left leaning who are still allowed to speak on a national level is centrist at best - and not even comparative to what is cent rum political speaking in most of Europe - even Obama is maybe to the right of center on most things - in Europe...But then again - the legacy of 30 year of conservative politics - is pretty clear in the US, and I doubt any decent left leaning politic ans would survive to national level in the US - anytime soon, specially as long as the conservatives have a near monopoly on most of the media....

I for one can understand why germans is up in arms (so to say) when Neo-Nazis are going around demonstrating - mostly because they have no interest what so ever in experiencing anything like it again - most germans learned what nazism was - and would never repeat it again - even if the NDP is a legitimate political party - their ideals is far from democratic - and their "heroes" goes back to some of the darkest pages of European history - the dark ages of Hitler-Germany...

By the way - do you have some ancestor back to Songefjorden in Norway - the name Sognefjord sounds very norwigian.... And is one of our finest fjords by the way - even though I suspect people from Hardangerjorden would be somewhat insulted by me then

Diclotican

[Sognefjord]

36. A Bit late replying but, yes, I have ancestors from Vik i Sogn.

My great-grandfather from Vik went to the US and got 700 acres eventually. He grew up on a farm near the Hopperstad stavekirk One of my great-grandmothers came from Vik and I had a great, great uncle who invented telemark skiing, a chap named Ranheim. All my ancestors are Norwegian. My wife is half-Norwegian and half-English by descent.

[onehandle]

4. Can you imagine if we used this tactic on our home grown version...

...and blocked teabagger Congresspeople from entering the Capitol?

[skepticscott]

15. Can you imagine if

10,000 teabaggers tried to physically block the marchers at the NATO protesters in Chicago? How would applause for that be regarded here?

[Sunlei]

24. does take imagination, because I don't think Koch would spring for the $$ to hire that many baggers.

[socialist_n_TN]

30. If you could find 10,000 teabaggers that would do this.....

it might be worth worrying about.

[geretogo]

6. I did'nt know the GOP had chapters in foriegn countries under the NPD label . Shut them down or have

a replay of 1930's Germany .

[bluestateguy]

7. The Nazi party is illegal in Germany, as is the Nazi salute

Holocaust denial is also a crime in Germany, punishable by imprisonment.

[Democracyinkind]

10. The NPD is a legal party.

They pretend not to be Nazis in order to get public funding. They are Nazis, of course, but they are very skilled at navigating the boundaries of legality.

[heaven05]

21. yeah almost the same here in U.S

the Republican/Tea Party is racist, but they pretend not to be in order to get matching funds. They are racist of course but are very skilled, with the use of 'code words', at navigating the boundaries of racial civility. The bundy clusterf... showed that to me with all of his 'supporters' in the media and in the national and local political spheres. I have counter protested, in the past, KKK marches in my adopted hometown and would stand in their way again. The right uses the same strategy worldwide. Block them all, vociferously.

[The Wizard]

22. America would do well

to see how those who had their country destroyed by Nazis deal with the threat of fascism. Anyone who believes the "patriot" movement doesn't share the same values as Nazis is in dreamland. Evil should be given no quarter.
The time is now to stand up to fascist aggression. We have an element in this country that embraces a violent overthrow of a duly elected government, and these bigots are heavily armed.
You know something is wrong when unarmed peaceful protesters are assaulted by over zealous heavily armored enforcers for doing nothing more than sitting on the ground while violent well armed anarchists bent on mayhem are given a free pass.

[NBachers]

23. Actually, I like the way this woman is expressing herself

And no, I'm not hand-wringing about some purported theoretical vapor concept "what if" kind of postulational predication.

[Diclotican]

27. NBachers

NBachers

That picture is from Denmark i Think - as the street names is clearly in danish.... And I think also the picture is legitimate - as something like this happened some years back - under a similar "neo-nazi" rally - Denmark had a rather strong neo-nazi/skinhead group back in the days - I'm not sure how it is today - but they was rather active back in the 1990s....

Diclotican

[DonCoquixote]

28. Bravo Berlin!

The far right needs to know they are NOT welcome in the 21st century, period.

[Enthusiast]

29. K&R!