Kerry Regrets Word Choice on Israel, Not Message on Peace
Source: Bloomberg
By Nicole Gaouette Apr 28, 2014 10:35 PM ET
Secretary of State John Kerry defended himself against critics angered by reports that the top U.S. diplomat had warned in a private setting that Israel risked becoming an “apartheid” state.
“If I could rewind the tape, I would have chosen a different word to describe my firm belief that the only way in the long term to have a Jewish state and two nations and two peoples living side by side in peace and security is through a two-state solution,” Kerry said in a statement tonight.
Kerry issued the statement, touting his record on Israel as a senator of almost 30 years, as the deadline on his goal of establishing an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement is set to expire tomorrow.
The drumbeat of criticism about his remarks grew steadily throughout the day, fed by social media. In Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike chastised him, and Senator Ted Cruz, a Texas Republican, called for his resignation.
Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-29/kerry-regrets-word-choice-on-israel-not-message-on-peace.html
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1000words
(7,051 posts)Kerry is constantly on the defensive.
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)...to make a difference in this world. He acts to solve problems and seek solutions. Relentlessly. I, for one, am glad he tries and takes risks for peace. 
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Sounds as though he could stand to read (or re-read) it.
clg311
(119 posts)"It's not enough to say there is no apartheid in Israel. You have to really believe there is no apartheid in Israel."
otherone
(973 posts)sigh
merrily
(45,251 posts)Sometimes, the more things change, the more they don't stay the same.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 29, 2014, 01:16 AM - Edit history (1)
I'm not sure why except to placate the whining apartheidists in Tel Aviv.
For god fu*king sakes. Why are we expected to treat then Israelis like babies while they literally steam roll over anything that they don't like or want to annex?
Day after day Israel turns a blind eye to their illegal fundie settlers that chop, hack, cut, burn and steal anything that the Palestinians grow. Israel won't allow Palestinians building permits while it craps out illegal settlement after settlement, on illegally confiscated Palestinian land. The Palestinians are harassed, intimidated, arrested for the slightest infraction, abused, assaulted and murdered. Two sets of laws are in effect, one for Israelis one draconian one for Palestinians, which in and of itself is a human rights violation and hearkens back to brutal histories like Jim Crow and Apartheidist South Africa.
And in all this SoS Kerry uses a term in a future tense which should actually have been applied years ago to define what Israel has become: a twisted, undemocratic, abusive rogue state with theocratic overtones.
It's really strange how fickle and indolent American really is. We value our freedoms, and we don't like it when they are put at risk by the NSA, PNAC, the Koch brothers, bloated Wall Street crooks, the GOP, Cliven Bundie, rogue cops or any other asshole that wants to skirt the law in order to fill their bellies at our expense. We will, however, roll over and play dead while our electeds keep on making the same mistakes over and over WRT every foreign country that we get in bed with and give $$$ to while they surpress their own populations.
So DUers, we wouldn't stand for what Israel is doing to a population under its control if, let's say, the same policies were in place in any state in the union. We wouldn't stand for it for one blessed moment.
It is high time that we cut the umbilical with Israel and tell them that enough is enough. The USA should have done it a long time ago, but we just can't help ourselves when it comes to supporting undemocratic regimes as long as they let us call them our friend and they act as our proxies.
Oh, and to any hasbarist that wants to cry about what I have written in bold, every word of it is irrefutable so please just please challenge me. I'm ready and will go 15 rounds with you.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)1000words
(7,051 posts)
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)No matter how much crap you put in bold font. If you were to ask the MAJORITY of Americans (and not those who post here), sympathy is overwhelmingly with Israel. So your fantasies about cutting them off is just that - a fantasy with no basis in reality whatsoever. They'd be much more willing to cut off Saudi Arabia (a country we need less and less every day) and every other place that has sharia law which Americans find much more repugnant than anything Israel is doing. You can scream all you want about it and I have no intention of obliging you in that waste of time but the US is not going to abandon Israel.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)of some of our other "allies", Israel is a beacon.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)How's that working out for you?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If you want to call it deflection, knock yourself out. I call it the reality of the situation.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)me to....I don't really know what you were expecting but obviously having a different opinion from you makes me glib. Shrug. I can live with that.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)And you didn't fail in being totally horrible.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Yes, the majority of America does not post here.
No, I doubt that America really has any sympathy for Israel when all the bad that it does can been pointed out. Public opinion is fickle.
I don't fantasize about factual things like Israeli apartheid. It exists. Deal with it.
I don't scream, I present facts. Seemingly you whine, though.
You don't have to oblige me in the least; especially when you can't defend what I wrote in bold since it is all true.
Bye bye.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Poll after poll shows the sympathy of Americans is SOLIDLY with Israel. You don't want to deal with reality, that's your problem. We're never going to cut off Israel and there is nothing even resembling apartheid there. You don't like the facts, I suggest you work to get an entirely different congress and President. First one to say they'll cut off Israel will lose immediately. Whining? LOL - that's hilarious considering I'm the one on the majority side of the issue.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Do you like eggs tainted with salmonella. 95% no. 5% undecided.
If one were going to ask the right queries about Israel, occupation and Palestinian statehood then you would probably be most disappointed in the answers that returned. That's a no-brainer.
So SOLIDLY with Israel means a whole lot of nothing, but it is a great soundbite when you have absolutely nothing else to stand on.
But let's get down to what you ignored.
Day after day Israel turns a blind eye to their illegal fundie settlers that chop, hack, cut, burn and steal anything that the Palestinians grow. Israel won't allow Palestinians building permits while it craps out illegal settlement after settlement, on illegally confiscated Palestinian land. The Palestinians are harassed, intimidated, arrested for the slightest infraction, abused, assaulted and murdered. Two sets of laws are in effect, one for Israelis one draconian one for Palestinians, which in and of itself is a human rights violation and hearkens back to brutal histories like Jim Crow and Apartheidist South Africa.
No poll is necessary to validate these truths, and Israel is the guilty party responsible for them.
Live. With. It.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)all those things happen in a vacuum, knock yourself out. The rest of us know better. I've seen, right here on this board, the argument that because the rockets raining down on Israel aren't sophisticated that they don't really count. Completely blowing it off. Those are my friends and family under those rockets so I don't have the luxury of ignoring that. You seem to think the Palestinians have a mountain of support and you couldn't be more wrong - even their neighbors (geographically) and their "brothers" use them as a prop to get their own people to forget the misery they live under. Refugees have been absorbed by other countries, including our own, after wars all over the world but nobody seems to want the Palestinians and have no problem keeping them in camps for generations. Have you asked yourself why? I'm guessing not.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)And I'm not sure who wrote that Palestinian rockets really don't count.
Please post the exact link to whomever wrote those words. Please.
Day after day Israel turns a blind eye to their illegal fundie settlers that chop, hack, cut, burn and steal anything that the Palestinians grow. Israel won't allow Palestinians building permits while it craps out illegal settlement after settlement, on illegally confiscated Palestinian land. The Palestinians are harassed, intimidated, arrested for the slightest infraction, abused, assaulted and murdered. Two sets of laws are in effect, one for Israelis one draconian one for Palestinians, which in and of itself is a human rights violation and hearkens back to brutal histories like Jim Crow and Apartheidist South Africa.
I guess that every once in a while they know what it is like to be a Palestinian every day. Sucks doesn't it? It doesn't make it right in either instance but it does suck.
Actually no, I believe the opposite. If they had a mountain of support Israel would have moved its illegal colonistas back inside its borders, but like South Africa it will take time and more voices to call what Israel does what it is: Apartheid.
It is not up to Israel to want or not want the Palestinians. It is up to Israel to obey international law, international treaties to which it is is a signing member to and remove its colonists from lands not recognized as belonging to Israel.
Sure. Israel lies through its teeth WRT what it is doing to the Palestinians, doesn't give a fuck what the world thinks, will attempt to take what it wants for as long as it can, and when they are criticized fall back on their self victimization and bring up the Holocaust: Netanyahu style.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Most of us are in the whole "make it to the end of the week" frame of mind.
edit - Kind of like Palestinians, now that I think about it.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)as if that bothers me or anyone else. Perhaps you'll want to remember the reception Bibi got the last time he spoke in front of congress. Was there even one rep or senator who didn't get to their feet in support? I don't think so.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)You realize there are much more moderate Israeli politicians that you could be supporting, right? This guy was pushing for Romney.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I was a big fan of Yitzhak Rabin and don't think much of Bibi but that's a far cry from the hyperbolic attacks on Israel I see on this site regularly. And I do mean regularly (been here 12 years).
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)And a lot of DUers, probably.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Most DUers have picked a narrative and will stick with it no matter what happens. Remember - I've been here a very long time.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)The other party of this peace effort is not without its own guilt.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)If things were equal, and they're far from that Palestinians would be gobbling up vast quantities of Israeli land and planting illegal settlers there as well as destroying the Israeli way of life. If that were the case then the Palestinians would be as guilty as the Israelis are now, but since that is not the case the situation is far from equal: needing to be pointed out at every step of the way.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)so get used to it. The Palestinians are merely helpless children who have no guilt whatsoever and are obviously in no way responsible for their plight. I'll never say that Israel doesn't bear responsibility and I'll never say that Bibi isn't an asshole but this "Israel is 100% wrong" nonsense is laughable.
JI7
(89,239 posts)It's a way to move on instead of allowing it to become the issue with media whores asking every dem if they agree and if he should resign.
Because they never report on actual issues.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)There are plenty of bad acts to go around without blatant attacks against just one party of the peace effort.
karynnj
(59,495 posts)The problem is that this is just one paragraph out of more balanced comments. In fact, the problem with this from the beginning was that just one word was taken completely out of context. In context, the comment was similar to the same thing said by many people for years if not decades.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)I just got back from Texas, and on my travels I saw Hispanic people, Whites, Blacks, and Asians living side by side. Yes, we still have a long way to go on race relations, but every ethnicity is represented in the political process.
If we declared ourselves a Christian society and started treating non-Christians differently, would that be cool? Hell no.
So why is it cool that Israel does it?
former9thward
(31,925 posts)There are 1.4 million Arabs in Israel, most Palestinian heritage. 13 of the 120 members of Israel's Parliament are Arabs. Ahmad Tibi, leader of the Arab party Ta'al currently serves as Deputy Speaker of the Knesset. One of the members of the Supreme Court is a Palestinian Arab. In the public employment sphere, by the end of 2002, 6.1% of 56,362 Israeli civil servants were Arab. In January 2004, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon declared that every state-run company must have at least one Arab citizen of Israel on its board of directors.
Arabic and Hebrew are the two official languages. Most of the Arabs living in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, occupied by Israel in the Six-Day War of 1967 and later annexed, were offered Israeli citizenship, but most have refused, not wanting to recognize Israel's claim to sovereignty. They became permanent residents instead. They have the right to apply for citizenship, are entitled to municipal services, and have municipal voting rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
I know all of this does not fit into your anti-Israel rant but you have no facts whatsoever.
laurent
(57 posts)If you include all the area occupied by Israel, the picture is very different. The Arabs in the occupied territories have virtually no say in the decisions that govern their lives.
former9thward
(31,925 posts)If I had, you and others, would have screamed "That is not Israel, that is occupied land." You want it both ways.
aceofblades
(73 posts)which is that a 'unitary state' means a different thing than what Israel is today(Israel + all west bank and gaza territories). While Israel, continues expansions into the west bank, it has not declared all the rest of the west bank and all within it, as being a part of Israel proper( with the full legal rights entailed-at least not yet )
I think he believes, that the status quo(with continued expansion of settlements) is not sustainable and ultimately either a "two state" solution must be determined or a 'unitary state'
As mentioned by the prior poster, if the current population growth and demographics hold, such a state would, in kerry's belief, either cease to be a "jewish state" or will become an 'apartheid state' (in which a plurality/majority of people who live within the full declared territorial rites of a state are not afforded equal civil rights.
In short, kerry did not label Israel as an APartheid state CURRENTLY; he presented what he believes are the risks if Israel continues it's expansion, without a negotiated settlement (not that I believe that there is a unified negotiating partner, but that is an additional problem).
He apologized for using the term 'apartheid' imo, because the very word has a history that triggers emotions detrimental to the peace effort, even if the exact definition of the word was substituted in it's place.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)According to the 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, the Israeli government had done "little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens".[182]
The 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices[182] notes that:
"Israeli-Arab advocacy organizations have challenged the Government's policy of demolishing illegal buildings in the Arab sector, and claimed that the Government was more restrictive in issuing building permits in Arab communities than in Jewish communities, thereby not accommodating natural growth."
"In June, the Supreme Court ruled that omitting Arab towns from specific government social and economic plans is discriminatory. This judgment builds on previous assessments of disadvantages suffered by Arab Israelis."
"Israeli-Arab organizations have challenged as discriminatory the 1996 "Master Plan for the Northern Areas of Israel," which listed as priority goals increasing the Galilee's Jewish population and blocking the territorial contiguity of Arab towns."
"Israeli Arabs were not required to perform mandatory military service and, in practice, only a small percentage of Israeli Arabs served in the military. Those who did not serve in the army had less access than other citizens to social and economic benefits for which military service was a prerequisite or an advantage, such as housing, new-household subsidies, and employment, especially government or security-related industrial employment. The Ivri Committee on National Service has issued official recommendations to the Government that Israel Arabs not be compelled to perform national or "civic" service, but be afforded an opportunity to perform such service"."
"According to a 2003 University of Haifa study, a tendency existed to impose heavier prison terms to Arab citizens than to Jewish citizens. Human rights advocates claimed that Arab citizens were more likely to be convicted of murder and to have been denied bail."
"The Orr Commission of Inquiry's report […] stated that the 'Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory,' that the Government 'did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action to allocate state resources in an equal manner.' As a result, 'serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system, and substantially defective infrastructure.'"
The 2007 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices[183] notes that:
"According to a 2005 study at Hebrew University, three times more money was invested in education of Jewish children as in Arab children."
And:
Israeli law also discriminates between Jewish and Arab residents of Jerusalem regarding rights to recover property owned before the dislocations created by the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.[202] The 1950 Absentees Property Law said that any property within post-war Israel which was owned by an Arab who had left the country between 29 November 1947 and 19 May 1948, or by a Palestinian who had merely been abroad or in area of Palestine held by hostile forces up to 1 September 1948, lost all rights to that property. Palestinians who fled or were expelled from their homes by Jewish or Israeli forces, before and during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, but remained within the borders of what would become Israel, that is, those currently known as Arab citizens of Israel, are deemed present absentees by the legislation. Present absentees are regarded as absent by the Israeli government because they left their homes, even if they did not intend to leave them for more than a few days, and even if they did so involuntarily.[203]
also
Disenfranchisement abroad
As of 2014, Israeli law effectively disenfranchises Arab Israelis abroad by disqualifying them from the basic democratic right to vote extended to Jewish Israeli citizens abroad, who may participate in Israeli elections "in Israeli embassies or consulates". The law itself stipulates that voting rights are reserved for Israelis abroad only if they are "overseas emissaries ... employed by the World Zionist Organization, Keren Hayesod, Jewish Agency or Jewish National Fund" and "Jewish Agency and JNF [Jewish National Fund] emissaries paid by their workplaces overseas". MK David Tsur has stated that the right of overseas Israelis to vote in Israeli elections is for Israelis "who do Jewish holy work overseas in their missions for the country".
Plus
In 2005, the Follow-Up Committee for Arab Education said that the Israeli government spent an average of $192 a year on Arab students compared to $1,100 for Jewish students. The drop-out rate for Arabs was twice as high as for Jews (12 percent versus 6 percent). There was a 5,000-classroom shortage in the Arab sector
and it goes on and on
former9thward
(31,925 posts)Everything you have posted could be said about the U.S. and the situation with AAs. And the U.S. is not surrounded by AAs would want to destroy it and kill all whites in it. So if Israel is an "apartheid" state then so is the U.S. Kerry should be labeling his own country instead of insulting others.
aceofblades
(73 posts)Currently? Can you expound upon this specifically? And specifically in terms of the laws that are mentioned in that link?
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)and push to place them in second class status while they are there.
But do continue to hold Israeli Arabs up as some kind 'proof'.
"I'm not a racist I have Black friends!"
"I'm not a racist I have Arab friends!"
former9thward
(31,925 posts)Name someone in Israeli government who "wants Israeli Arabs out". I won't hold my breath.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)