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Still Sensible

(2,870 posts)
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 08:50 PM Apr 2014

Inmate dies after botched execution; second execution stayed

Source: NewsOK (The Daily Oklahoman)

McALESTER — State Corrections Department officials stopped the execution of an inmate Tuesday after a botched lethal injection. Corrections Department Director Robert Patton later addressed members of the media, and announced after a blown vein, Lockett suffered a heart attack at 7:06 p.m., and was declared dead.

The execution officially began at 6:23 p.m. Patton said all three drugs had been administered, but they did not have the desired effect. Patton said Lockett died in the execution room.

Officials closed the curtains in the execution room 16 minutes into the procedure, after Clayton Derrell Lockett convulsed several times, his chest and head rising off the gurney at multiple points.


Read more: http://newsok.com/execution-for-one-inmate-botched-stayed-for-another/article/4744351

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Inmate dies after botched execution; second execution stayed (Original Post) Still Sensible Apr 2014 OP
Barbaric. nt awoke_in_2003 Apr 2014 #1
"Barbarism" is a very powerful argument against the death penalty. laurent Apr 2014 #72
Welcome to DU awoke_in_2003 Apr 2014 #77
Capital punishment, not corporal jmowreader Apr 2014 #83
Corporal means of the body Ash_F Apr 2014 #114
The US did abolish capital punishment for about 15 years, until the right-wingers brought it Cal33 Apr 2014 #92
under the very thin veneer of civility heaven05 Apr 2014 #103
Serious question. Have you ever been jailed? Ash_F Apr 2014 #118
DAMN. elleng Apr 2014 #2
GOD DAMN MOTHERFUCKERS!!!! darkangel218 Apr 2014 #3
Do you have a response about his victim? Psephos Apr 2014 #23
Two wrongs dont make a right. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #28
You obviously DIDN'T EVEN READ MY POST. Psephos Apr 2014 #54
I read that alright. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #55
Says it all. n/t Psephos Apr 2014 #57
YES! nt darkangel218 Apr 2014 #59
how are monsters heaven05 Apr 2014 #93
There have been many studies on that treestar Apr 2014 #98
Regardless of ones views on capital punishment, I believe the main problem right now is execution lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #30
It's sort of bleakly amusing... Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #36
Someone screwed up big time on this. I am not arguing the merits of or demerits of Capital lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #48
I have never!, ever!, in my life heard of that 'mix' of drugs used to kill, even an animal. Sunlei Apr 2014 #87
I hate to respond to this because I had to put my dog to sleep a year ago and it still bothers me lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #112
Me too with my dogs and I understand the gentle passing. Sunlei Apr 2014 #116
Yes, they are part of the family. lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #119
I say heaven05 Apr 2014 #94
Yes, life in prison Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #100
"removes murderers from society permanently" heaven05 Apr 2014 #101
Vengeance is not justice, please don't confuse the two. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #106
that's a condescending answer heaven05 Apr 2014 #107
Not really Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #108
thanks for that heaven05 Apr 2014 #109
You clearly haven't done much thinking about it Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #110
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #121
I'm not a vindictive person tavernier May 2014 #124
Yes....they are living the good life....in prison. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #127
Supremes don't see the caustic irony of attempting to make execution not cruel. Psephos Apr 2014 #56
This has to do with violating an order from the court for a stay. It is beyond the actual execution lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #61
We are of like minds here. n/t Psephos Apr 2014 #63
I thought so /nt lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #65
I believe that the criminal should die the same way that their victum was killed. invrabbit Apr 2014 #105
If the news story was about the murder, I'm sure you would hear a very strong reaction nobodyspecial Apr 2014 #31
I do. WE are apposed to be better than that. nolabear Apr 2014 #34
I'm opposed to the DP for many reasons mvd Apr 2014 #68
You said it better than I. Thanks. nolabear Apr 2014 #99
You have VA_Jill Apr 2014 #111
Don't pity this monster. 840high Apr 2014 #38
Why not? Hayabusa Apr 2014 #88
He brought this on himself. delta17 Apr 2014 #117
His consequence was to die Hayabusa May 2014 #125
This message was self-deleted by its author rhett o rick Apr 2014 #74
All sound and fury, signifying nothing. Psephos Apr 2014 #80
The victims weren't killed in our name, with power we JoeyT Apr 2014 #79
I bow to your moral superiority and rapier-sharp analysis. n/t Psephos Apr 2014 #81
Expressing concern for A does deny that same concern for B... LanternWaste Apr 2014 #91
Botched executions are a concern to society treestar Apr 2014 #97
The guy was 18 years old swilton Apr 2014 #115
Fuck the 2 men who murdered - 840high Apr 2014 #43
Inhumane at best and PumpkinAle Apr 2014 #4
Grisley. No torture in the US, right? hlthe2b Apr 2014 #5
:'( darkangel218 Apr 2014 #6
This is just idiotic, it needs to stop. MADem Apr 2014 #7
I just posted about this in the Oklahoma forum OKNancy Apr 2014 #8
Thanks for your NY Times article. Overwhelming. n/t Judi Lynn Apr 2014 #13
augh Voice for Peace Apr 2014 #18
I see the two flaws in their method Warpy Apr 2014 #29
The second man raped and killed 840high Apr 2014 #39
Nor do I Warpy Apr 2014 #40
I don't think he has a conscience. 840high Apr 2014 #46
Anyone who rapes and murders an 11 month old girl has no conscious, IronGate Apr 2014 #52
I'm pro-DP, but antiexecution. christx30 Apr 2014 #104
I read the comments Heathen57 Apr 2014 #9
I am sickened to my core. Mira Apr 2014 #10
Can't believe it wasn't stayed to begin with considering all the questions mvd Apr 2014 #11
The victim's parents madville Apr 2014 #12
yes, both men are not very sympathetic characters OKNancy Apr 2014 #24
I'm pretty much anti DP, IronGate Apr 2014 #27
would anyone expect anything else from the family? They lost people they loved senselessly in an lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #37
Oklahoma is pretty barbaric when it comes to vengence. nt avebury Apr 2014 #14
Read John Grisham's "An Innocent Man" all about Oklahoma. mountain grammy Apr 2014 #58
Another really good book is Death and Justice avebury Apr 2014 #62
Shameful. 951-Riverside Apr 2014 #15
Life in prison without parole would be a far avebury Apr 2014 #17
I keep on hearing this said here, but the last case like that on DU, the guy had spent 15 years in freshwest Apr 2014 #66
You don't feel remorse if you're dead either. Moot point. Fearless Apr 2014 #70
Dogs and cats die like that all the time in shelters. This whole euthanasia thing is much more cruel jtuck004 Apr 2014 #16
They should just engage gun nuts to do the job. onehandle Apr 2014 #19
Mr. Lockett apparently didn't mind doing just that IkeRepublican Apr 2014 #20
If the inmate died as the result of a execution, then was it really botched? Lancero Apr 2014 #21
Why not beat him to death with a sock full of nickels? onehandle Apr 2014 #22
The method chosen was lethal injection. Lancero Apr 2014 #25
True. Enough tongue licks from cats would eventually kill you. onehandle Apr 2014 #26
You know the issue so don't play dumb. The injections were supposed to calm the prisoner, and lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #41
No. Lancero Apr 2014 #50
That is only part of it. It was also supposed to be done in the least painful way, and you cannot lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #60
Since the true purpose of execution in America is the entertainment value, this was a failure tclambert Apr 2014 #32
I have been reading comments about the story on the avebury Apr 2014 #33
The governor defied the State Supreme Court’s ruling for a delay? Glorfindel Apr 2014 #35
Is that legal? lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #42
Evidently it is if you're a Repuke Glorfindel Apr 2014 #44
A direct violation of a court order is illegal. In fact I would suspect the justice department lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #49
Repulicans meanit Apr 2014 #90
Where has that bit come from? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #84
The irony of the headline is a a hoot Doctor_J Apr 2014 #45
Jesus Christ jimlup Apr 2014 #47
They should have used a drone. El Supremo Apr 2014 #51
I hear nothing from the teaklan/fox "news" about Mary Fallin's executive overreach. Dawson Leery Apr 2014 #53
... Warner's lawyer .. said she has concerns about using the mixture for an execution, struggle4progress Apr 2014 #64
I'm far more concerned with how his victim suffered than how this monster died. To Hell with him. Jgarrick Apr 2014 #67
I don't know what sickens me more... Fearless Apr 2014 #69
+1000 Jake Stern Apr 2014 #76
+2000 I wonder if they enjoy torturing us with Live and Learn Apr 2014 #82
So he died.. thefool_wa Apr 2014 #71
Sounds like he really suffered before he died. BlueStater Apr 2014 #73
If they can't do it right, they should not be doing it. McCamy Taylor Apr 2014 #75
, blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #78
Inhumane! This must stop. Glimmer of Hope Apr 2014 #85
'The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.' Sunlei Apr 2014 #86
Lockett, 38, was convicted of the 1999 fatal shooting of Stephanie Neiman, 19, in Perry. unreadierLizard Apr 2014 #89
It took 43 minutes for him to die davidpdx Apr 2014 #95
This is what I don't understand raptor_rider Apr 2014 #96
The witnesses hamsterjill Apr 2014 #102
Oklahoma Tortures Human To Death geomon666 Apr 2014 #113
Horrible way to die, not even an animal deserves that kind of death. Beacool Apr 2014 #120
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #122
No one champions the right to kill anyone's baby. Democracyinkind May 2014 #123
Who champions the right to kill babies? Nobody on DU does. cyberswede May 2014 #126
 

laurent

(57 posts)
72. "Barbarism" is a very powerful argument against the death penalty.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 11:50 PM
Apr 2014

As society moves from barbarism to civilization, there is less and less emphasis on corporal punishment. In the West, we no longer cut off people's hands or lash them. Execution is the last remaining form of corporal punishment in Western civilization. Abolishing the death penalty would be the end of corporal punishment and thus an advancement for our civilization. Many other nations have already taken this step, and could therefore be said to be more civilized than the US.

jmowreader

(50,553 posts)
83. Capital punishment, not corporal
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 04:24 AM
Apr 2014

"Corporal" punishment is spanking someone because they fucked up.

"Capital" punishment is killing them because they REALLY fucked up.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
114. Corporal means of the body
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 04:00 PM
Apr 2014

Killing someone is destroying their body. The poster used the correct word.

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
92. The US did abolish capital punishment for about 15 years, until the right-wingers brought it
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:17 AM
Apr 2014

back again. We have too many sociopaths in leading positions today - both in government and in
private industry. Some of the more severely sociopathic ones are also sadists. They enjoy torturing
others: those who are for water-boarding, for instance.

Sociopaths are our Public Enemy Number One. They are the cause of most problems, worldwide.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
103. under the very thin veneer of civility
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:28 AM
Apr 2014

created by current civilization we are still a barbaric race. Is it not barbaric to kill for oil, race, sexual preference and a host of other reasons? Human society has had time to move from barbaric to real classless and race neutral society. NOPE! Not there yet. Execution is a perplexing problem with the racism, classism and corruption in our judicial system. I know innocent people are being convicted of heinous crimes that they had no part in perpetrating. Yet the barbaric slaughterer of innocent human beings sits behind bars breathing good air and eating good food. I bet that the only thing he/she is regretting is that they got caught. Like I say it is a perplexing problem for the human race barely out of the caves.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
118. Serious question. Have you ever been jailed?
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:18 PM
Apr 2014

I am not asking you if you have ever been convicted of a crime. I am asking if you have ever been, at least, jailed.

It is not a good time. To be jailed for life is a very serious punishment.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
3. GOD DAMN MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 08:54 PM
Apr 2014

EXECTUTIONS NEED TO BE ABOLISHED!!!!!!!!



iM SORRY, I CANT READ ALL YOUR OP.

FUCK EM ALL! AND FUCK ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS KILLING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING FOR REVANGE!!!!

Psephos

(8,032 posts)
23. Do you have a response about his victim?
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:43 PM
Apr 2014
http://amarillo.com/stories/2000/08/25/tex_convictedof.shtml

A Ponca City man has been convicted of first-degree murder and 18 other counts involving a crime spree that left Stephanie Nieman dead and two other people injured. A Noble County jury deliberated more than three hours Wednesday before returning the guilty verdicts for Clayton Derrell Lockett, 24.

The spree in June 1999 began when Lockett and two others forced their way into Bobby Bornt's residence in Perry, police said. Nieman, 19, of Perry and another 19-year-old from Perry arrived at the home and were accosted by the men and had their hands bound with duct tape. One of the women was raped. Authorities said the women did not know the suspects.

Bornt, his 9-month-old son, and the two women were taken to a location in Kay County where Neiman was shot. Police said the others were put back in trucks, driven back to Perry and released. The child was not harmed.

Neiman's body was found in a shallow grave along a dirt road near Tonkawa. One of the suspects led police to the body.

The woman's two friends have said they believed they were allowed to live because they had children.

------------

I am strongly opposed to the death penalty myself. However, it's abominable and revealing when there is far more "concern" spent on the criminal than on his/her victims. Especially when the victims received horrifying and cruel death penalty themselves.
 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
28. Two wrongs dont make a right.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:53 PM
Apr 2014

WE are supposed to 'Correct and rehabilitate" , or that is what we learn in school.

rehabilitation how, by killing them????>>!!???

FUCK THAT!!!

NO!

THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN SAY THAT WILL MAKE ME RECONSIDER THE DEATH PENALTY.

Psephos

(8,032 posts)
54. You obviously DIDN'T EVEN READ MY POST.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:36 PM
Apr 2014

You know, the part where I said I AM UNEQUIVOCALLY OPPOSED TO THE DEATH PENALTY.

Apparently you ignored the rest of it, too.

/caps off

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
55. I read that alright.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:38 PM
Apr 2014

But you ask me what do I have to say about the victim???

Our system is supposed to correct and rehabilitate, not kill.

THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!

have a nice day.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
93. how are monsters
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:27 AM
Apr 2014

like the ones responsible for crimes of rape and murder to be corrected and rehabilitated? Just curious.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
98. There have been many studies on that
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:17 AM
Apr 2014

It's already agreed that rapists are not executed. Only murderers. And they are not to be executed by a painful method. That's why as a society we chose lethal injections.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
30. Regardless of ones views on capital punishment, I believe the main problem right now is execution
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:54 PM
Apr 2014

effectively by torture

That does not mean the victim or the victim's family is sympathized with

The murders happened in 1999, and that is one story, but the story on this has to do with a botched execution, and that should have never been allowed to happen. Why did it go so terribly wrong? That issue is different then arguing whether there should be capital punishment or not.



 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
36. It's sort of bleakly amusing...
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:01 PM
Apr 2014

that most states with the death penalty have moved to lethal injection because it medicalises execution and makes it somewhat more acceptable to the public. If hanging were still the primary method of execution opposition to the death penalty would probably be higher than it is.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
48. Someone screwed up big time on this. I am not arguing the merits of or demerits of Capital
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:13 PM
Apr 2014

Punishment, but the intent was to provide the least painful execution possible, and it failed miserably.

Someone pointed out in this thread that the Supreme Court in the state ruled to stay the execution, and the governor refused. I suspect that if their higher court did put a stay in, there was more than reasonable doubt that the method they were using had not be adequately verified.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
87. I have never!, ever!, in my life heard of that 'mix' of drugs used to kill, even an animal.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:44 AM
Apr 2014

Used in that way as a 'pre-mix'. There is something so bogus about whatever Ok. Doctor suggested that. I hope the worlds Doctors speak-up and condemn that USA state.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
112. I hate to respond to this because I had to put my dog to sleep a year ago and it still bothers me
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 01:35 PM
Apr 2014

Last edited Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:23 PM - Edit history (1)

What they did is first administer a drug to calm him and make him sleep, then another agent which caused him to cross over as gently as possible . Gunner could not breathe and there was no remedy. Even though that still haunts me I feel I did the only thing I could do under the circumstances. What they did in Oklahoma, is a violation of basic humanity

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
119. Yes, they are part of the family.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:57 PM
Apr 2014

Like you said, no human being should be treated the way they did, and it should make folks question

exactly what is Capital Punishment for. why isn't Life imprisonment without parole done. Why do people seek revenge?

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
94. I say
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:33 AM
Apr 2014

BRING BACK THE GUILLOTINE IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE!!!! THEN WE WOULD PROBABLY SEE A DECLINE IN CRIME. Kinda kidding, but what about vicious criminals that care nothing about innocent human life? Rest of their lives in prison, breathing good air and eating food? I guess????But what about their innocent victims?

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
100. Yes, life in prison
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:37 AM
Apr 2014

considering that there's some not insignificant proportion of people wrongly convicted (see here for instance: http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/DNA_Exonerations_Nationwide.php ), it's probably worse to execute the innocent for a crime they didn't commit. Life imprisonment removes murderers from society permanently.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
101. "removes murderers from society permanently"
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:10 AM
Apr 2014

pretty simple huh? With, granted, the unfairly and wrongly convicted, it is a perplexing problem. Just recently I have taken another look at my stand on 'execute them all'. But the question that keeps cropping up, with me, is while the murder victim(s) problems are over here, what drives individuals to slaughter innocent human beings beside the obvious mental illnesses. Are all murderers driven by mental illness? Was the murderer of my sister mentally ill. If he was, he hid it well because I knew him. To this day I would want him to suffer the pain and terror he caused my sister. And true it's not just about me. There is too much racism, classism and just plain corruption out here to justify all executions. Yet the pain and terror these contemptible human pieces of waste cause is not to be just written off as 'serving the rest of their lives behind bars'. What if they escape?

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
106. Vengeance is not justice, please don't confuse the two.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:36 AM
Apr 2014

The rate of wrongful convictions is enough reason to end the death penalty.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
107. that's a condescending answer
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:42 AM
Apr 2014

just because you believe what YOU believe does not make it necessarily so. That "vengeance is mine sayeth the lord" stuff doesn't cover the pain and terror experienced by innocent victims of these animals. I'm not confusing a damn thing. It's a perplexing problem for thinking individuals.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
108. Not really
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:46 AM
Apr 2014

what about the families of people wrongfully executed? Do they not count?

Doesn't seem to me like you're doing much thinking at all.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
109. thanks for that
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:50 AM
Apr 2014

your answer shows me that I have done a hell of a lot more thinking about this problem than you have. I'm done with your snark.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
110. You clearly haven't done much thinking about it
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:12 PM
Apr 2014

either that or you just don't care that around ten percent of those sentenced to death are innocent. (Total number of executions since 1976, 1378; total number of exonerations, 144, you do the math.)

Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #110)

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
127. Yes....they are living the good life....in prison.
Thu May 1, 2014, 11:58 AM
May 2014

I wish I could be so lucky as they are, to be living.....in prison.

Psephos

(8,032 posts)
56. Supremes don't see the caustic irony of attempting to make execution not cruel.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:41 PM
Apr 2014

Good luck with that.

And they are further unaware of how much of a sham "justice" becomes when an innocent person is executed. There are no further appeals from the grave.

That alone is the strongest argument against the death penalty for me.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
61. This has to do with violating an order from the court for a stay. It is beyond the actual execution
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:45 PM
Apr 2014

now


nobodyspecial

(2,286 posts)
31. If the news story was about the murder, I'm sure you would hear a very strong reaction
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:55 PM
Apr 2014

The news story is about the execution so that is what people are commenting on. You can care about the victims AND be outraged about the way the death penalty is being administered.

nolabear

(41,959 posts)
34. I do. WE are apposed to be better than that.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:57 PM
Apr 2014

Either you think it's all right to kill a person or you don't. And either you think it's all right to make a person suffer terror and pain as they die or you don't.

What a horrific, inhuman thing he did. I can't imagine being that kind of person. Neither can I imagine there being anything positive in making him seize and then die of a heart attack in front of people who, for better or worse, did care about him.

mvd

(65,173 posts)
68. I'm opposed to the DP for many reasons
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 11:31 PM
Apr 2014

- first of all, I don't believe in any killing. Killing the killers to me does not make a right.
- it has not proven to be a deterrent
- the costly (but necessary) appeals
- it puts us in bad company with China and Iran
- it is unfairly carried out and risks killing the innocent

But just my first reason makes me opposed. I am morally against it.

Hayabusa

(2,135 posts)
88. Why not?
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:51 AM
Apr 2014

He died a horrible death where he shouldn't have. Yes, he was a murderer, but society shouldn't be monsters in taking his life. I thought us humans outgrew that notion in the last 100 years, but it seems not.

delta17

(283 posts)
117. He brought this on himself.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:08 PM
Apr 2014

Some choices have consequences. Just like I wouldn't have much sympathy for someone who gambled their money away, I don't have much sympathy for this jerk.

Response to Psephos (Reply #23)

Psephos

(8,032 posts)
80. All sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 03:04 AM
Apr 2014

Let me repeat this for you and the other nonreaders here v e r y s l o w l y:

I am unequivocally AGAINST the death penalty. No exceptions. Capisce?

Yet, I have also observed human nature AS IT ACTUALLY IS, every fucking day. I don't try to impose a political construct on it, I just take note.

Anyone with even a passing knowledge of history knows that vengeance and retribution are essentially universal across cultures and time, and are wired into the human psyche from prehistoric tribal times, when they served a survival purpose among kin-related groups. They are the emotions behind Us vs. Them, which we play out every day here on DU against our mortal "Them" enemies, the demonic, subhuman, child-hating monsters: repugs.

Vengeance and retribution in their raw native state are the gasoline that ignites into fights, feuds, and wars. They have never once been legislated away. They've not shown susceptibility to religious prohibition nor political lectures. If we try to smash them down deep and lock them away, they will do what every other suppressed passion eventually does: work their way out in vastly more destructive ways. The real-world strategy that works, as any psychologist will tell you, is to SUBLIMATE the passion by channeling it out in a nondestructive way. Vent it so that it doesn't explode. Accept human nature, but not barbaric outcomes. Provide a way to acknowledge and respect vengeance passion, but also to prevent it from causing more misery.

So, yep, there actually IS an element of vengeance and/or retribution involved in gruesome murder cases, which you would know if anyone ever raped your 19 year old daughter, kidnapped her at gunpoint, dragged her to a dark field and shot her to death while she sobbed, and then tossed her body into a shallow grave. I don't need it or want these primitive emotions if I have no personal stake in an atrocity, but I'm not so stupid to deny I'd feel it in my bone marrow if I did. As would you, Saint Rick.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
79. The victims weren't killed in our name, with power we
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 02:41 AM
Apr 2014

granted their murderer through our democratic government. Had the murderer put his crime to a vote, the vote would have been no.

You're also using one of the most abhorrent of the pro-DP arguments while claiming to be anti-DP. "If you don't think someone deserves to be tortured to death you must care more about them than the person they killed!" is a shitty argument. Empathy isn't a zero sum game. If you think it is, you're doing it wrong.

Something in this thread was abominable and revealing, but it wasn't her post.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
91. Expressing concern for A does deny that same concern for B...
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:02 AM
Apr 2014

Expressing concern for A does deny that same concern for B; it may however, express an implicit relevance to the OP...

treestar

(82,383 posts)
97. Botched executions are a concern to society
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:15 AM
Apr 2014

It does not mean we don't have concern for the victims of the crime.

 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
115. The guy was 18 years old
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 04:12 PM
Apr 2014

when he committed this crime -

He could have been rehabilitated -

There are many adults who get away with murder = (politicians who wage wars of aggression, state Governors who lust for state murder/torture through secrecy and employment of experimental drugs = the list goes on) ...

As one who grew up in Ponca City, OK, the guilty man's hometown, I feel shame for the city, the state and our country in how the Oklahoma Governor and its politicians lusted after the execution, especially after the objections of the Oklahoma courts.

PumpkinAle

(1,210 posts)
4. Inhumane at best and
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 08:54 PM
Apr 2014

totally unwarranted and unnecessary.

Only after watching Lockett suffer did they decide to close the curtains. I guess they got the bloodlust they were after.

hlthe2b

(102,225 posts)
5. Grisley. No torture in the US, right?
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 08:56 PM
Apr 2014

Cheney, McCain, Palin, Graham, Bolton et al. must be somewhere smiling, hearing this.


MADem

(135,425 posts)
7. This is just idiotic, it needs to stop.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:00 PM
Apr 2014

It's pathetic when barbaric acts like firing squads and hangings are more "humane" than the supposedly "humane" lethal injection.

I just rec'd this thing to give it visibility, not because I'm a fan of executions...("rec" can be misconstrued).

Warpy

(111,245 posts)
29. I see the two flaws in their method
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:53 PM
Apr 2014

but there's no way I'd tell an executioner about it.

The condemned man should have been allowed to live out his life in prison, far away from women. The man who was to follow him should live out his life in prison, far from children.

Warpy

(111,245 posts)
40. Nor do I
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:07 PM
Apr 2014

I'd rather have him spend a lifetime clean and sober and with that child's screams haunting his nightmares every single night.

 

IronGate

(2,186 posts)
52. Anyone who rapes and murders an 11 month old girl has no conscious,
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:29 PM
Apr 2014

so I doubt he would hear her screams or have nightmares of what he did.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
104. I'm pro-DP, but antiexecution.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:35 AM
Apr 2014

He should be forced to live in a small room with a bench until he dies. He gets 2 meals a day, but not enough to keep him healthy. Just enough to prevent death by starvation. He never goes outside. He gets sick, he dies, he's carted out. But he never sees outside the walls of his cell. He can meet with his lawyer for 1 hour per month to work on appeals.
If he's found innocent, this will give a chance to be released. If not, he dies of natural causes. But he gets more of a chance than his victim did. I think it's a good compromise.

Heathen57

(573 posts)
9. I read the comments
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:05 PM
Apr 2014

following the article, and it makes me wonder about our morality and the sanity of some of our citizens.

But most of all, it just makes me sick.

mvd

(65,173 posts)
11. Can't believe it wasn't stayed to begin with considering all the questions
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:07 PM
Apr 2014

About method and where the drugs came from. Oklahoma put blood lust above being humane. I became firmly anti-death penalty a while ago and was never much for it.

madville

(7,408 posts)
12. The victim's parents
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:10 PM
Apr 2014

Had stated in an interview that lethal injection was "too easy" a way to go in this case, looks like they were wrong about that.

The second guy that was supposed to get executed but it was stayed after this happened, he raped and murdered an 11-month old girl.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
24. yes, both men are not very sympathetic characters
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:46 PM
Apr 2014

One kidnapped, beat, raped, shot, and then buried alive a 19-year old woman. The other raped and killed an 11-month old baby.

 

IronGate

(2,186 posts)
27. I'm pretty much anti DP,
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:51 PM
Apr 2014

but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over the 1st guy and the second one that raped and murdered an 11 month baby girl, my solution is to place him in general pop and let nature take it's course.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
37. would anyone expect anything else from the family? They lost people they loved senselessly in an
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:04 PM
Apr 2014

act of violence. Their lives are changed forever, perhaps ruined, depending. Most likely they will never feel closure, even if the murderers were drawn and quartered because it will never bring back those who were lost. Walking into an empty house, and the laughter or companionship they once knew is gone, and nothing can bring that back.

mountain grammy

(26,619 posts)
58. Read John Grisham's "An Innocent Man" all about Oklahoma.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:42 PM
Apr 2014

After reading it, I don't even want to drive through Oklahoma.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
62. Another really good book is Death and Justice
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:49 PM
Apr 2014

by Mark Fuhrman. It is about several death penalty cases in Oklahoma County during the era of DA Bob Macy and police chemist Joyce Gilchrist. I had to read it because it dealt with local cases and there was a huge scandal on Joycy Gilchrist (that I think became a Law & Order case). Fuhrman started out pro death penalty and changed his mind after his research on the Oklahoma cases. The stuff on Gilchrist is pretty bad.

http://www.amazon.com/Death-Justice-Mark-Fuhrman-ebook/dp/B003XDUCKY/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1398825864&sr=1-3&keywords=mark+fuhrman

Into the debate steps Mark Fuhrman, America's most famous detective, and no stranger to controversy himself.

Fuhrman seeks to answer these questions by investigating the death penalty in Oklahoma, where a "hang 'em high" attitude of cowboy justice resulted in twenty–one executions in 2001, more than any other state. Most of these cases came from one jurisdiction, Oklahoma County, where legendary DA Bob Macy bragged of sending more people to death row than any other prosecutor, and police chemist Joyce Gilchrist was eventually fired for mismanaging the crime lab. Examining police records, trial transcripts, appellate decisions and conducting hundreds of interviews, Fuhrman focuses his considerable investigative skills on more than a dozen of the most controversial Oklahoma death penalty cases.

From Publishers Weekly
Former LAPD detective Fuhrman (Murder in Brentwood and Murder in Spokane) may not be an elegant stylist, but his latest book is a serious and alarming investigation of legal misconduct on a massive scale. In 2001, Oklahoma executed 21 death row inmates-more than any other state in the country-and 13 had been convicted by the same Oklahoma County district attorney, Bob Macy. Fuhrman sets the stage: A barrel-chested cowboy whose good-ol'-boy brand of frontier politics and hard-line stance on the death penalty earned him a handful of enemies but many more powerful friends, Macy aggressively pushed for the death penalty in cases that other prosecutors would likely never have brought to trial. And his political influence and tearfully delivered closing arguments led to victory more often than not. Supporting Macy in his self-righteous campaign against crime was Joyce Gilchrist, director of the Oklahoma City Police Department crime lab. Often scolded for indiscretions but never strongly questioned, Gilchrist, Fuhrman explains, flagrantly mismanaged the crime lab for nearly two decades and routinely gave false and misleading testimony under oath (testimony that led to several death penalty convictions). When the cumulative effects of Gilchrist's incompetence and a federal investigation finally threatened to erupt into a national scandal, potentially damaging evidence against her was found to be either conveniently missing or prematurely destroyed. Fuhrman stops short of calling Oklahoma's problems a conspiracy, but he does show that they are endemic not only to Oklahoma but also to our entire criminal justice system. While his discussions of the ethical complexities of executions are unsophisticated, Fuhrman's book makes for an engrossing read.
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
17. Life in prison without parole would be a far
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:20 PM
Apr 2014

more brutal sentence for the baby killer because he would have to be kept in isolation. There are some crimes that even hard core criminals won't tolerate.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
66. I keep on hearing this said here, but the last case like that on DU, the guy had spent 15 years in
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:59 PM
Apr 2014
prison and was fighting to live there for life.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014441749

There's nothing in the links about special protection, afraid of living life in prison or eaten up with remorse.

Of course we don't know the people in the news.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
16. Dogs and cats die like that all the time in shelters. This whole euthanasia thing is much more cruel
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:19 PM
Apr 2014

than people can imagine. It's why most vets take your animal in the other room, and why I always have been and always will be by their side when and if that time comes.

And, frankly, since we don't need to do that, as far as I am concerned any city that has a kill shelter has a whole city full of barbaric ass clowns.

Doing it to people doesn't make it worse. It's still evil.


onehandle

(51,122 posts)
19. They should just engage gun nuts to do the job.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:27 PM
Apr 2014

Who more than them would love to blow away a tied down victim?

IkeRepublican

(406 posts)
20. Mr. Lockett apparently didn't mind doing just that
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:35 PM
Apr 2014

"Mr. Lockett was convicted of shooting a 19-year-old woman in 1999 and having her buried alive."

Source: NYT

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
22. Why not beat him to death with a sock full of nickels?
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:43 PM
Apr 2014

Or burn him down with a belt sander?

What Would Jesus Use To Execute A Human?

Lancero

(3,003 posts)
25. The method chosen was lethal injection.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:48 PM
Apr 2014

It was preformed. He died.

The chosen method was used, and the intended outcome of the method was attained. I fail to see what part of this was botched.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
41. You know the issue so don't play dumb. The injections were supposed to calm the prisoner, and
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:07 PM
Apr 2014

provide the least amount of suffering. That is not what happened, and that is why it was botched. Doesn't really take rocket science does it?

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
60. That is only part of it. It was also supposed to be done in the least painful way, and you cannot
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:43 PM
Apr 2014

have one without the other and consider it successful

tclambert

(11,085 posts)
32. Since the true purpose of execution in America is the entertainment value, this was a failure
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:56 PM
Apr 2014

since not going smoothly according to the script upset so many in the audience.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
33. I have been reading comments about the story on the
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 09:57 PM
Apr 2014

local news channel websites. They are a bunch of vengeful, blood thirsty people in this state. I am really surprised that they haven't passed a law to allow execution by stoning in this state. For a state that claims to be a Christian state that believes in the sanctity of life they want to cherry pick when life is sacred and when it is not.

Glorfindel

(9,726 posts)
44. Evidently it is if you're a Repuke
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:11 PM
Apr 2014

Imagine a DEMOCRATIC governor defying a state supreme court's ruling. He or she would be in prison forever and ever, amen.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
49. A direct violation of a court order is illegal. In fact I would suspect the justice department
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:16 PM
Apr 2014

could even get involved and take this up to the Supreme Court

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
84. Where has that bit come from?
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:08 AM
Apr 2014

I can't see it in the article in the OP; this article says there had been arguments about teh State Supreme Court's jurisdiction, but they ended up letting the executions go ahead anyway.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
47. Jesus Christ
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:13 PM
Apr 2014

You'd think we'd learn that killing people is a stupid and immoral idea but no we have to be shown by the cold hard truth of the reality of the thing.

GOD DAMN IT! THIS STUPID SHIT MAKES ME SO PISSED OFF! WHAT A BUNCH OF IGNORANT FUCKS SOME PEOPLE ARE!

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
53. I hear nothing from the teaklan/fox "news" about Mary Fallin's executive overreach.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:34 PM
Apr 2014

She defied an order by the state Supreme Court to halt executions.

struggle4progress

(118,278 posts)
64. ... Warner's lawyer .. said she has concerns about using the mixture for an execution,
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:54 PM
Apr 2014

especially because the dosage of midazolam specified in Oklahoma's protocol is much smaller than that used by Florida. Oklahoma has thus far provided no indication that medical professionals were consulted about the method ... "This combination of drugs has been used in a handful of executions in Florida and has raised questions because midazolam is not an anesthetic drug and it is therefore unclear whether it will adequately anesthetize a prisoner prior to the second and third drugs, which will unquestionably cause pain and suffering in an inadequately anesthetized person," Cohen said. She said the protocol "carries a substantial risk that the condemned prisoner will suffer a lingering and torturous death from suffocation, due to the effects of both midazolam and pancuronium bromide" ...

Oklahoma reveals drugs it will use in executions
By Associated Press
Published: 17:45 EST, 1 April 2014
Updated: 17:45 EST, 1 April 2014

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
82. +2000 I wonder if they enjoy torturing us with
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 03:10 AM
Apr 2014

their justifications of something I find simply abhorrent.

BlueStater

(7,596 posts)
73. Sounds like he really suffered before he died.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:27 AM
Apr 2014

But then so did his victim, who he shot and buried ALIVE. While I don't think his execution should have gone like this, I'm definitely not going to cry any tears for him.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
86. 'The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.'
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:36 AM
Apr 2014

Gandhi was correct.

 

unreadierLizard

(475 posts)
89. Lockett, 38, was convicted of the 1999 fatal shooting of Stephanie Neiman, 19, in Perry.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:13 AM
Apr 2014

Lockett shot Neiman twice with a shotgun before having an accomplice, Shawn Mathis, bury her alive.

Warner, 46, was sentenced to death for the rape and murder of his live-in girlfriend's baby daughter, Adriana Waller, in 1997 in Oklahoma County.

Read the second part.

It's hard for me to muster up sympathy for a baby rapist and murderer.

BABY

RAPIST

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
95. It took 43 minutes for him to die
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:54 AM
Apr 2014

Maybe the politicians allowing this should be asked to sample it and decide if it is cruel and unusual punishment.

raptor_rider

(1,014 posts)
96. This is what I don't understand
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:13 AM
Apr 2014

Executing a prisoner for the worst crimes to commit against another human being is horrible. However, when Michael Vick was caught in his pit bull dog fighting ring, a lot of you who oppose the DP were calling for him to be put in the fighting ring with the dogs to fight to his death. This is pot calling the kettle black you all. Damn, might get my first deleted post here, or even banned for this comment. However, take a look at what you all are saying.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
102. The witnesses
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:17 AM
Apr 2014

I don't believe that I, myself, could ever witness an execution. However, I could understand a condemned inmate wanting to have a family member(s) in the death chamber. I might also understand a family member of a victim wanting to be present.

I can only imagine the horror and long-term effect that witnessing something like this could do to any witnesses. And yes, I know and understand that the warden had the curtains pulled at a point in time when things were going wrong. But having the curtain drawn probably only increased the anxiety for the witnesses as they would have known that something was wrong and would have been wondering what was going on that they could not see.

They may have been prepared to witness an execution; they may not have been prepared to witness 16 minutes of a nightmare.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
120. Horrible way to die, not even an animal deserves that kind of death.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:11 PM
Apr 2014

On the other hand, this is a man who shot a 19 year old girl and watched his buddies bury her alive. She too had a terrible death.

Sometimes karma is a bi***.



Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
123. No one champions the right to kill anyone's baby.
Thu May 1, 2014, 02:59 AM
May 2014

What is realy disheartening is your comparison, it seems your idea of justice consists of timing executions to the severity of the crime.

You are advocating for torture as vengeance. That has nothing to do with justice, and it doesn't befit a civilized country.

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
126. Who champions the right to kill babies? Nobody on DU does.
Thu May 1, 2014, 11:53 AM
May 2014


I don't get how people can claim to be "pro-life" and support the death penalty. Jesus would weep.
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