Ukraine guardsmen open fire on crowd

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

KRASNOARMEISK, Ukraine (AP) — Ukrainian national guardsmen opened fire Sunday on a crowd outside a town hall in eastern Ukraine and an official for the region's insurgents said there were fatalities.

The bloodshed in the town of Krasnoarmeisk occurred hours after dozens of guardsmen shut down voting in a referendum on sovereignty for the region.

An Associated Press photographer who witnessed the shooting said two people were seen lying unmoving on the ground and insurgent leader Denis Pushilin was quoted by the ITAR-Tass news agency as saying there were an unspecified number of deaths.

Several hours earlier, guardsmen came to the town about 30 kilometers (20 miles) from the regional capital, Donetsk, and dispersed referendum voting that was taking place outside the town hall and they took control of the building. In the evening, more guardsmen arrived in a van and a scuffle broke out with people who were gathered around the building. Then the guardsmen fired shots.

FULL breaking short story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140511/eu-ukraine-shooting-a31e60b64b.html

[Comrade Grumpy]

1. Brilliant move, Kiev. That should calm things down.

[PatrynXX]

21. from what I understand

the headline is wrong they didn't fire on the crowd. some guy who wasn't afraid to get killed attempted to remove the guys gun. which in this country would also get you killed

[Crowman1979]

2. Another reason why the USA should stay the hell out of this conflict.

No troops, no planes, no money, NOTHING! As if we need more blood on our hands.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

6. But Russia can decide where their borders are,

and if on a whim they decide those borders include one third or one half or even all of Ukraine, you got no problem with that, right? And Kerry and Obama shouldn't say or do a thing because the Budapest Memorandum means nothing and the UN Charter is just a buncha hooey.
We don't need to send troops or planes or money to bring Russia to its knees. Which is why Putin hasn't invaded. But that appears to not actually mean anything when you have a pile of straw that needs burning, eh?

[Crowman1979]

7. Frankly, I don't like either side.

And it won't be long before Putin's own people turn against him. Just wait until he tries to force american-style prohibition on Russia.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

9. American-style prohibition?

Huh? Can you explain, please?

[karynnj]

20. Were the Russian people (and those of the rest of the USSR) able to remove Stalin?

It is not clear their is a mechanism for Russia to remove Putin --- and his popularity soared with his actions on Crimea.

I think Ukraine has a really tough situation. An insurgency is hard anywhere, but here there is the complexity of Russia cheering them on - while arguing against any action to stop things that ANY country would stop.

I think they should have laid low this weekend - other than to document the illegitimacy of an election for which there were not even voting rolls - and no way to see if people already voted.

[PatrynXX]

23. sorta agree on not liking either side

but there is way more Nazi's in the east than the west at the moment because of the lack of police enforcement..

[former9thward]

40. Nobody is going to "bring Russia to its knees".

Despite your fantasies. What was your position when the U.S. and NATO forced a referendum at the barrel of a gun in Kosovo which ignored the UN Charter?

[Benton D Struckcheon]

44. I have no position on Kosovo quite frankly at this point,

because I was unaware that that was a real issue until Putin complained so bitterly about it. So, I'm looking at that and gathering info on it to make up my mind. I paid very little if any attention to it when it was happening. At that time Russia wasn't on anyone's mind, and the breakup of Yugoslavia just brought to mind a quote from Ed Hart, an old guy at FNN, the predecessor to CNBC, who said at one point "This idea of the end of history with the end of the Soviet Union is fatuous. Now that they don't have the Soviets to hate anymore, they can go back to hating each other."
That's about as much thought as I gave it. I didn't know what that guy meant when he said it, but once Yugoslavia fell apart I found out. I don't consider myself an expert on the varied and complex hatreds of Europe. The only thing I'm looking for here is simple: that Putin's gov't, which is neo-liberal at best (you'd never know it from the way some "leftists" fawn over him, but the place has a flat income tax and was, before this Ukraine thing, starting to thrive on foreign investment because the tax laws there are very friendly to folks with lots and lots of money and to corporations) leave Ukraine alone. I don't have much affection for the new gov't and none at all for the EU. I have even less affection for tinpot revanchist imperialists and their apologists, even if they attempt to clothe themselves in faux "anti-fascist" clothing.

[former9thward]

50. It really comes down to whether you want the U.S. to be the world's cop.

I don't. In doing so we continue the build up of the MIC which is sucking all tax money into it like a black hole. Social programs will be starved and it will only get worse. We have to withdraw and cut our military to defense of North America. Countries in the Pacific like Japan, Australia and S. Korea are wealthy, let them pay for their defense. The EU should do the same. Ukraine and E. Europe have very messy histories and so it is easy to find good guys on whatever side you or I want to pick and to find bad guys on the other side. But I really don't want to pick sides. I want the U.S. out and out now.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

56. Oh geez.

Burning straw. The US isn't in it. Russia is. They're the ones who invaded and annexed.

[Billy Budd]

63. I do not have the details Sir

but I am firmly grounded in a reality and data based belief that events in the Ukraine are deeply rooted in the corporate interest and sustaining political-military-financial propaganda mechanisms of the United States and its allies......The self serving rhetoric of American pseudo concerns for "Democracy" masks the primary intent of the United States to create, not annexed territories necessarily , but a global market subservient to transnational capital.



"Get some new lawyers"


US Secretary of State Madeline Albright to British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook when he told her
he was informed that the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was illegal under international law

[CatholicEdHead]

29. I am sure our options area always being considered

and we do have some form of assets on the ground both in Ukraine and Moscow. Putin is playing retro Cold War chess. I am sure soft measures are attempted to be used now. Pootie Poot is using a faux embracement of the local groups as a pretense for mostly bloodless coups each region at a time.

It has to be soft power as we and Russia both have enough nukes to take out the planet many times over, so MAD is still on the table and our conventional military is depleted and early in the rebuilding stage after Afghanistan and Iraq operations. Even if we had a conventional force of meaningful size to deploy, the Ukraine is not a place that non-Russian armies have done well in historically. Hard power would bring us to the war that we spent 40 years in the Cold War to avoid.

Pootie Poot will push as far as he can and knows his limits, then we will be in a modern detente of stalemate. Where that line is depends, Pootie Poot wants to bring back the USSR he grew up with, so the 'stans of Central Asia and Baltic States have to be on guard. A line will be drawn before Poland and eastern Europe.

[Warpy]

54. We have no dog in this fight

We didn't have one in Syria, either. Just having American citizens who are first generation immigrants from both places doesn't change that fact.

My only sympathy here is for the people hunkered down, hoping the fighting doesn't come to their neighborhood and for whom going out to shop for the day's food is becoming a dangerous enterprise. I suppose that's because I can see the same thing happening here eventually, as it's starting to happen around the Bundy ranch with all those swaggering hotheads waving their guns around.

Once the dust settles around whoever ends up on top of the dungheap in both countries, we'll be in a position to help them rebuild. And sometimes that is the very best this country can do.

(In the meantime, it's fun watching Putin slowly realize he's bitten a tiger's tail and is starting to wonder what he's going to do with the rest of the tiger)

[Duckhunter935]

3. They did fire many warning shots in the air

Not good to have a bunch of nervous armed national guard around a loud and menacing crowd.

[jakeXT]

4. Is that the new infamous National Guard ?

On Tuesday, Andriy Parubiy, head of the Ukrainian National Security Council, went on Twitter to declare, “Reserve unit of National Guard formed #Maidan Self-defense volunteers was sent to the front line this morning.” Parubiy was referring to the neo-Nazi militias that provided the organized muscle that overthrew Yanukovych, forcing him to flee for his life. Some of these militias have since been incorporated into security forces as “National Guard.”
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/04/16/ukraine-through-the-us-looking-glass/

[Duckhunter935]

8. I do not know and you do not know nt

[Jesus Malverde]

17. Here is video of the shooting.

It's clear from the video these are not professional soldiers but armed thugs likely right sector recruits. They don't have proper uniforms and are obviously undisciplined.

Looks like the guy in the white t-shirt and black vest opened fire into the crowd

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1399832157

it's a wild west. Given all the gun play and your username you might enjoy this.

[Ash_F]

24. They sent 3 people to shut down a polling station with dozens arriving?

They have no idea what they are doing.

[Duckhunter935]

25. You have no idea what my username is about

do you? take a guess.

I have seen several videos. Most are in uniform and some not, They fired many, many warning shots into the air and the crowd still advanced. After the shooting they diffused the situation by retreating into the building. That many shots and only two of the dozens of civilians hit, must be bad shots.

I have no idea but I would guess some activated national guard and some new soldiers that are not fully trained or equipped. No idea if they are right sector or not and you do not either.

I will say it again, scared soldiers with weapons and a rowdy crowd approaching, bad things can and probably will happen.

&feature=youtu.be

[penultimate]

31. Those people for sure are not professional soldiers

but there isn't much to suggest they are right sector recruits of any sort. They could also be local citizens who are sympathetic to the government in Kiev. I didn't see them shoot directly into the crowd, but rather they shot up and at least one of them shot into the ground a few times causing the bullets to ricochet into the crowd. Seems rather careless and stupid to me.

[Jesus Malverde]

59. It's actually one of two videos.

Here is the view from somewhat behind the gentleman who was killed.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a24_1399836501

He like the shooter is also wearing white.

When you have right wing nuts using Automatic weapons for crowd control this is what happens.

[newthinking]

36. They are not going to be convinced. Keyboard coldwarriors long for "better times"

when they could make black and white of everything.

[The Magistrate]

42. You, Sir, Spend All Your Time Presenting A Black And White Picture

Plenty on the further reaches of the left have Cold War reflexes and nostalgia, which this matter has called forth, and which are on display quite clearly.

You have about as much grounds for complaining others present a black and white picture, and view matters through a cold war lens, as a pickpocket would have for accusing a burglar of failing to pursue an honest living....

[newthinking]

43. Whatever "MR Sir" - I have confidence in the liberals here who will also likely do their own

research.

I know how you feel and I know that won't change.

[The Magistrate]

45. You Seem To Imagine, Sir, 'Liberal' Means The Same As 'Radical'....

It does not.

[newthinking]

47. "Are you, or have you ever been a communist"

Same basic premise. Maybe, just maybe, intelligent people could have different opinions "Sir"?

[The Magistrate]

48. Different Opinions, Sir, But Not Different Facts...

Your pretense that you are doing anything but catapulting propaganda from Moscow is laughable. That you do it for free, by your own free choice, I do not doubt, but that does not alter the reality of it....

[Billy Budd]

62. Sir we have always been at war with Pro Russians Ukraine

Your facts and opinions are always best..so what if the unelected Govt in Kiev is gunning down would be voters...Sir ....We have always been at war with pro Russia Ukraine

[The Magistrate]

64. You Seriously Need New Writers, Sir

[Billy Budd]

65. yes sir I do

Published on Monday, May 12, 2014 by Common Dreams

Reports of Blackwater Swarming Kiev as East Vows Independence
Following contentious referendum vote, leaders in Donetsk ask Russia to absorb eastern state
- Lauren McCauley, staff writer
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/05/12-1


According to German news source
http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/ukraine/us-soeldner-von-blackwater-im-einsatz-34992896.bild.html
Bild on Friday, and repeated
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise-400-us-soeldner-von-academi-kaempfen-gegen-separatisten-a-968745.html
by Der Spiegel, Ukrainian security forces are being supported by over 100 "elite soldiers" involved in a "punitive operation mounted by Ukraine’s new government." The information was leaked to the media by sources from German foreign intelligence agency Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND).

[bemildred]

5. Violence flares in eastern Ukraine as separatists hold referendum

Ukrainian government forces opened fire on pro-Russian militants Sunday in the eastern town of Krasnoarmeysk, killing one man, whom a regional separatist leader identified as a civilian.

Denis Pushilin, self-proclaimed leader of the "People’s Republic of Donetsk," said troops sent by the government in Kiev to wrest back control of the rebellious region had earlier blocked access to the town to disrupt a referendum on independence that the Ukrainian government has declared illegal.

“They [Ukrainian troops] were impeding the referendum. Members of the elections commission have barely escaped,” Pushilin told Russia’s Itar-Tass news agency.

Russia Today television also reported a tense standoff in Krasnoarmeysk after the government troops blocked buildings where voting had been underway.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-referendum-violence-20140511-story.html

[Duckhunter935]

10. another elections commision

Wonder if the ones in the story were like these nice boys

A Donetsk referendum organizer told Mike Giglio of Buzzfeed, who has been reporting from Ukraine throughout the crisis, that they hadn't invited any "official" observers, but "anyone who wants to can observe."

That quote, and this photo of the "Central Electoral Commission of Donetsk" on the eve of the referendum, sum up what's happening in east Ukraine.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/referendums-in-east-ukraine-2014-5#ixzz31RFg1BEq

[Fred Sanders]

13. They are unarmed unlike the junta in Kiev mercenaries, the commission fears for its lives...see post

above.

[Duckhunter935]

14. Keep using those RT keywords

simple question I have not yet received an answer to from a Pro-Russia supporter here. It is simple and I can not understand the silence that happens when confronted with this very simple question.

Do you support the democratic presidential elections called by the interim government this month?


The Ukraine Rada was democratically elected, no? They are more democratically elected than the thugs that just appointed themselves without even a vote of the people and need masked armed guards around them. Even the former presidents own Party of Regions voted to remove him after he left the country. That would be like the Democrats in Congress, our elected representatives voting to remove President Obama. Thank goodness that will never happen here as he is not fleeing the country and not able to carry out his constitutional duties.

Is this a junta also in the East?

Who elected him?
Separatist leader and self-appointed "Donetsk People's Republic" governor Denis Pushilin

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/465505070432661505/photo/1


Democratically elected?

He proclaimed himself mayor after leading an assault on the Sloviansk mayor’s office on 14 April 2014, as part of the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Ponomarev_%28public_figure%29

And him, was he democratically elected?

Self-Appointed Defense Minister of Separatist Region Arrested

[newthinking]

34. You have it wrong DH, people here do not support this ballot. The are against the provocative

handling by the administration who is using "activists" in the army which is headed in the executive by Neo-Nazi's. It is that simple.

You can deflect and try to create a different narrative here, but from everything I see on the net people are not buying it.

And for the record: I do not support this ballot. It solves nothing.

[Fred Sanders]

37. Not really a question, more a deflection.....

Do you support the past democratically elected government and President of the Ukraine, before it was overthrown by the current regime, and I will answer your future based question.

[Duckhunter935]

39. I support the democratically elected

parliament that voted to remove the former President who abdicated his position when he fled the country. This vote included the former Presidents own party voting to remove him. Supported the Former President until he fled in the middle of the night leaving the country leaderless.

so will you answer my question now since I answered your question.

[Fred Sanders]

41. The President fled to avoid further conflict, he is a hero for doing so...and my answer is no, I do

not recognize elections elect before during or gunpoint.

[go west young man]

49. Consider yourself caught in an outright lie....

You asked me that question yesterday and here was my answer to you.

I wrote " No, I'm for separation. I was for an election before the violent overthrow of the country by Right Sector and Svoboda/Fatherland Party....there is no way the two candidates offered for that proposed election would be suitable for the people of East Ukraine. If they have their own country they can live in peace as can the West Ukraine. No one wants to be dominated and killed by fascists and then given shit choices on candidates the fascist approve. I am for separation. You tell me how you seriously think those ordinary workers will just get back in the mines and send their money to Kiev? It isn't going to happen. Two things can happen now...civil war with lots of killing....or separation. I'm for the latter.

Link Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4936353

Now let me ask you a question.....do you enjoy deceiving others? Is it rewarding in anyway to state lies when you know the truth?

One other thing...it seems you like to assign people titles such as "Pro Russia"....thereby labeling them as against the USA. Is it possible a true American patriot may see through what our country is doing and decide to expose the truth to bring a better country about? What we passionate US citizens, who are fighting for the truth, are doing, is what we all should be doing.....we are exposing our governments worst elements so that the United States may one day be truly "the shining light on the hill" and 'the beacon of hope".....as it is right now we have a long, long way to go and a lot of work to do. You certainly aren't do the country any favors when your defending fascists who are killing people on video.

[Duckhunter935]

52. My mistake on your answer

I have asked that question of 5-6 members and you were the only one that actually answered. My apologies to you.

Of course the other side of this, the ones that stormed government facilities have not killed anyone or taken any hostages.

If you have read my posts I have said many times both sides are at fault and there are much better ways to handle this. It does not help that both sides only present their spin to make the other side look bad. So you are saying everyone in the Ukraine government is fascist and wanting to only kill everyone in the East. I do know the interim President has relented on a lot of the Easts demands and is willing to talk but no-one from that side will.

[newthinking]

38. They wear head coverning because if they don't right sector thugs will go after thier families.

[The Magistrate]

19. An Interesting Article At Your Link, Sir

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-separatist-referendum-20140511-story.html#page=1

Galvanized by fear and propaganda, residents of eastern Ukraine voted Sunday in a widely condemned and unmonitored referendum on independence that is expected to be declared an overwhelming victory by its separatist organizers.

Ukraine’s central government in Kiev denounced the balloting in the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk as illegal, noting that territorial changes can be put to a vote only on a nationwide basis.

U.S. and European leaders warned the Kremlin and the pro-Russia militants occupying government headquarters in the eastern Ukraine region that they were enflaming already dangerously volatile passions in the deeply divided area long dominated by Moscow.

The single referendum question was simple in its wording but vague in its intent: Do you support the act of independence for the People’s Republic of Donetsk?

[Billy Budd]

11. we [Kiev and USA] are the good guys

any news that reflects otherwise has to be false by default because we are the good guys and everyone who says otherwise is wrong and immoral

[Fred Sanders]

12. Maybe the American mercenaries the Kiev regime recently hired after the military and police refused

orders from the coupe inspired junta to shoot fellow citizens.

[penultimate]

32. Can you post some of the photos/videos of these US mercs in the area?

Those Academi/Blackwater types usually stand out like sore thumbs, and the claim is that there are 400 of them operating there.

[independentpiney]

15. Damn,does this mean AP and LA Time are spewing Putin propaganda?

Because I keep getting told anything negative about the Kiev government is Putinist lies.

[dipsydoodle]

16. Oh

You've noticed.

[Duckhunter935]

22. Nope, sound like unbiased news

event happened, soldiers shot two civilians during a protest . Propaganda would be the junta, coup stalled mad Nazi bastards gunned down many peaceful flower carrying citizens.

[independentpiney]

30. Oh

then I guess I haven't read any propaganda from the madman dictator who wants to enslave the freedom loving democratic peaceful Kiev government who embody every progressive ideal you could possibly want to imbue them with.

[joshcryer]

55. AP is credible now?

[Xolodno]

18. Amazing.

At the top of my head I can think of two examples where this happened in the USA.....

Boston Massacre.

Kent State.

....and the amazing part...we have people here defending the guys with guns.

Because its Putin's fault! Yes these people in the Ukraine have absolutely no control over their political views and emotions....they are Putin Zombies! (sarcasm)


Guess those who were at Kent State were "Liberal Zombies".

[newthinking]

35. I think they are paid. Or retired keyboard warriors. It is literally only a few that keep

trying to turn every bit of info upside down.
They think they do their neocon leaders well here, but most of the liberal sphere does not believe the bullshit at this point.

[Progressive dog]

51. John Adams defended the guys with guns

You know, the John Adams who became 2nd President of the US. He did pretty well, too, with a Boston jury. Seven of nine soldiers were acquitted and the other two convicted of manslaughter. Yes, that was pretty amazing,

[Igel]

26. Most recent report unidentifies the perps.

The press said "Dnipro Battalion," but the National Guard says there's no such thing.

There's a special division of the police with the moniker "Dnipro," but they set up checkpoints and were in a different oblast'. They weren't in the town. There was no raid on the Ispolkom building by Ukr officials.

In fact, nobody knows what happened to the raiders. One report was that they remained in the building. Another said they cleared out, having gone in for a few minutes and then left.

Ekho Moskvy reports 2 dead (one on site, one died en route to dispensary/hospital).

One could suspect that given the way such an attack galvanized Mariupol it was convenient to do that in this berg. That would, of course, being omniscient as to the answer to cui bono?

But no reasonable person would use that as a basis of a deduction--a question the answer to which is unknown and only assumed as the premise to reach the same conclusion.

[Duckhunter935]

27. links?

[Igel]

28. In other news ... the DPR announce referendum results.

Not that there's any transparency or way to verify anything--with attestations of multiple voting, outdated voter rolls, and no voter rolls in some areas. (With locals saying that in some regions, like north Luhansk, there weren't any polling places at all set up ... but the referendum will be viewed as binding on them.)

http://www.echo.msk.ru/news/1318104-echo.html
Объявлен результат опроса общественного мнения в Донецкой области, который сепаратисты называют референдумом

12 мая 2014 | 01:10

Местных жителей спрашивали, поддерживают ли они акт о государственной самостоятельности региона. Как сообщили в созданной для этого мероприятия центральной избирательной комиссии, «за» проголосовали 89,07% избирателей, против 10,19% и чуть менее одного процента бюллетеней были испорчены, передают информагентства. Сообщается, что явка в Донецкой области составила около 75%. Данных из Луганской области пока нет.

The results of the public opinion survey in Donetsk oblast, termed a referendum by the separatists, are announced
12 May 2014 01:10 (Moscow time)
They asked local residents whether or not they support the act of governmental independence for the region. The central election committee created for this undertaking published that 89.07% of voters voted "for" and 10.19% "against," and just under 1 percent of the ballots were ruiined, according to the information agency. It's announced that the turnout in Donetsk oblast was about 75%. There are no figures available for Lugansk oblast yet.



Another blip from the same site. Russian only, as far as I can see. I don't start threads because I don't intend to stick around to nurse them.

Владимир Путин определит свое отношение к так называемым референдумам на востоке Украины по их итогам

12 мая 2014 | 02:19

Об этом пишет сегодня газета «Коммерсант» со ссылкой на пресс-секретаря президента Дмитрия Пескова. Если Россия признает результаты голосования и это сорвет президентские выборы на Украине 25 мая, то США и Евросоюз введут новые экономические санкции, отмечает издание.
В Донецкой области голоса избирателей были подсчитаны менее чем за два часа. Сепаратисты уже объявили результат – 89%, по их словам, поддерживают государственную самостоятельность региона, около 10% против. Явка составила 75%.
В Луганской области на избирательные участки пришли больше 80% избирателей. Итоги этого голосования его организаторы намерены объявить сегодня утром.


http://www.echo.msk.ru/news/1318112-echo.html
Vladimir Putin will determine his attitude towards the "referendums" in Eastern Ukraine by their results.
12 May 2014 02:19
This, according to today's issue of "Kommersant", referring to the president's press secretary Dmitrii Peskov. If Russia recognizes the results of the voting and this derails presidential elections in Ukraine on May 25, then the USA and EU will introduce neweconomic sanctions, according to the newspaper.
In Donetsk Oblast the votes were counted in less than 2 hours. Separatists have already announced the result--89% in their words, supported governmental independence of the region about 10% were against. Turnout was 75%.
In Lugansk oblast about 80% of voters came to the polls. The organizers of this voting intend to announce the results this morning.

[independentpiney]

33. Thanks for the translations

I think very few will argue the election and vote tally were legitimate, and I doubt the May 25th will fare much better. It's a messy situation.

[Obnoxious_One]

46. Bring on the freedom vodka I need something to wash down my Freedom Fries

Last edited Sun May 11, 2014, 09:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Russia-phobia is running rampant these days. But it should. Unless you're a commie Putinista sympathizer.
I hear that these civilians exercising their democratic right to vote actually shot themselves because they felt so guilty for wanting to be independent from a fascist regime that burns it's own citizens alive.

[Duckhunter935]

58. Where did you hear that?

Must be new news from RT

[jakeXT]

61. RT likes the freedom fries guy, he is on Russia's side and questions Nazi ties to Kiev

PS:I know it was Walter Jones who coined the term

[Obnoxious_One]

53. This video documents the war crimes of the Kiev government the most clearly yet.

[Duckhunter935]

57. No, it shows a person shot

Do you know for a fact where and who fired the shot? With that many civilians around soldiers it is a wonder no more were killed. Pretty bad shots I guess.