Czech Republic: 84 % say coexistence between Roma and others is "bad"

[uhnope]

Source: Romea


The Center for Public Opinion Research (Centrum pro výzkum veřejného mínění - CVVM) reports that coexistence between Romani people and others living in the Czech Republic is perceived by the vast majority of the public as problematic. In a recent survey, 45 % said coexistence with Roma is "bad", while 39 % described it as "very bad".

The survey, conducted in April, found only 12 % of respondents consider coexistence with Roma to be "good". Compared to this time last year, evaluations of coexistence between non-Romani and Romani people in the Czech Republic have slightly improved.

Last year, 9 % of respondents evaluated coexistence with Roma as "good" and 87 % evaluated it as "bad", while this year the combined responses of "bad" and "very bad" constituted 84 % of those surveyed. The authors of the survey said there are no significant differences among various population groups when it comes to evaluating overall coexistence with Romani people.

"Only people who have Romani acquaintances or friends evaluated coexistence between the majority society and the Romani population as 'good' with any significant frequency, as did respondents who evaluate coexistence with Romani people in their own neighborhoods positively," CVVM said. The coexistence between the non-Romani population and Romani people in places where Romani people actually live is evaluated somewhat more positively than is the overall evaluation for the Czech Republic as a whole.

Read more: http://www.romea.cz/en/news/czech/czech-republic-84-say-coexistence-between-roma-and-others-is-bad#

[Prophet 451]

5. There is a black crime problem in the USA

See how that sounds now?

[MillennialDem]

9. Given that Roma were victims of the Holocaust 2 generations ago and are still viewed with

much disdain, why?

[Warpy]

31. I think it's because it's such a closed culture.

I knew a few in Boston well enough to talk to them in generalities but that was the best I could do. Same goes for the few times I cared for them in hospital.

They always seemed a little shocked that anyone outside the culture would talk to them like they were people.

However, the closed nature of their culture arouses suspicion, especially among xenophobes.

(and FWIW, they owned small businesses all over the city.)

[MillennialDem]

32. Possible I guess. I can't admit that I knew any Roma, open or otherwise - but my

half Jewish grandfather who survived the Holocaust talked about them. He moved to the states with my mother and grandmother about 25 years before I was born and I think the places I've lived didn't have big Roma populations.

[Prophet 451]

33. Interactions between Roma and gadje have tended to end badly for us

Essentially, we've been persecuted to varying degrees since the Middle Ages. Because of that, our culture has evolved a tendency toward isolationism and a view that Roma can only rely on one another (hence the expression "Me against my brither, my brother and I against my cousin but my cousin and I against the stranger&quot . To some degree, that guardedness is still worthwhile (there are still pogroms occasionally in Eastern Europe) but in the US, it's probably not warranted.

[Warpy]

35. Yes, I knew the history

so I didn't push things. I kept it light.

I do think the guardedness is warranted because this country is full of xenophobes and other people who tend to romanticize things. The former start out being jerks and the latter become jerks when Roma people don't live up to the fantasy.

However, it was interesting, to say the least, watching known xenophobes patronizing the businesses owned by Roma people. If they only knew..

[Prophet 451]

10. Yes, I am

Two distinct ethnic groups in countries where they are a sometimes persecuted minority. How is there are difference?

[LeftishBrit]

14. Racism is racism

And racism is vicious at the best of times, and often has horrific consequences. Like the Holocaust. I am NOT 'Godwinizing' here. The proportion of Roma people who fell victim to the Holocaust comes second only to the Jews.

Read this, and then try saying 'so what'.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/gypsies.html

[Prophet 451]

21. Na bista 500,000!

That means "never forget the 500,000". That's the lowest estimate of the Roma who died in the Porajmos (our word for the Holocaust, just as Jews use the word Shoah). Because record-keeping was so sparse and a lot was lost during the fall of Nazi Germany, that's just the number we can independently verify. It could be up to two million who died in the camps. And we have no idea how many were just shot on sight with no record kept.

[uhnope]

12. Balthazar's yet another Putinista who's also a racist hater. What a surprise

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014804625#post1

[freshwest]

19. Appears to have been served pizza...

[Prophet 451]

34. And nothing of value was lost n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Like Jews, another very stereotyped group.

In the ADL's recent release on anti-Semitism, I saw something quite similar to this quote:

"Only people who have Romani acquaintances or friends evaluated coexistence between the majority society and the Romani population as 'good' with any significant frequency, as did respondents who evaluate coexistence with Romani people in their own neighborhoods positively,"

When there is contact, the hate/dislike seems to diminish; not always, of course. Here again we have a population of native peoples who are seen as "the other." I saw similar comments in regards to the Roma in articles from Italy and Hungary. I admittedly know very little about them as a people, other than a few historical things, but they seem to be thought of as being on the "dark side" of things in Europe.

The fact that 84% think "co-existence" is bad, is frightening and sad.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. No. But I also don't think all Roma are the same either.

Your article above is bigoted.

[Prophet 451]

18. It's Social Identity Theory

I'm partly Roma (from my grandfather) and we're like every other ethnic group. We have our own customs (both good and bad) and folklore but as people, some of us are good, some are bad and most are somewhere in-between. We do have a cultural tendency toward isolationism because interactions between Roma and gadje have tended to turn out badly for us.

The hostility can be explained by Social Identity Theory. Essentially, SIT proves that all of us unconsciously discriminate in favour of our in-group (those like us or who we aspire to join) and against our out-group (those we perceive as different to us). That's unconscious and automatic, it's been shown to operate even in very young children and even when the differences are explicitly trivial or randomly assigned. However, it's also easily overcome. As we become more familiar with different kinds of people, we gradually learn to incorporate that type of person into our in-group.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. I haven't heard SIT in years!

I see lots of parallels with the Jews, and even gays, especially when we first come out.

Do you mind if I ask a few questions? It isn't anything overly personal, but rather informational. If you agree and feel the questions are too personal I will immediately delete.

[Prophet 451]

22. Um, I don't mind but...

My grandfather died when I was extremely young and my grandmother and mother were totally westernised so I'm not sure how much help I can give you.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Any help is appreciated.

(If too personal, let me know!!!)

What is the difference between Rom, Roma, Romani, and Sinti. Where did the term Anti-ziganism come from (I know I could look it up, but I figure others might be interested)? Is there a shared language anymore? Any good books on the topic?

Thanks!

[Prophet 451]

25. No problem

Right, "Rom" means "man" (in the sense that one might speak of mankind) but can also mean "male" or "husband" depending on context. "Roma" is the collective name we give ourselves. "Romani" (sometimes with two "i"s) can be used instead of "Roma" but more commonly refers to the Romani language. Sinti, I'll get to in a second. Our language is shared... to an extent. Again, I'll come back to that in a second. The word "gypsy" is controversial. It's patently inaccurate (it's derived from "Egyptian" from the Middle Ages assumption we were from Egypt) but some find it offensive and some don't. Personally, I don't find it offensive. "Gyppo", however, is roughly akin to using the n-word to a black man and a really good way to start a fist-fight.

Right, potted history is that we originated in Northern India. We left India sometime around the Ninth century. According to current theories, the Roma left India in three distinct waves which give rise to the great clans: Roma (yes, also used to refer to us as a people, it's confusing) who travelled among central Europe and the UK; Sinti (Germany & Austria) and Kale (Spain). We're also related to the Dom (MidEast and Turkey) and Lom (Caucasus) but whether they're simply clans of the Roma people or distinct but related ethnic groups depend on who you ask. Personally, I tend to think of them as two more great clans because that gives us five and that's a psychologically appealing number (yes, sometimes I can be that shallow). Each great clan is sub-divided into smaller clans such as the Rom/Romale, Kalderesh, Lovari, Gurbeti, etc. And the smaller clans are subdivided into families. I am of the family Nock, which is part of the clan Rom/Romale, which is part of the great clan Roma. To add to your confusion, the Roma of different nations use different terms for themselves. Here in England, the preferred term is "Romanichal".

When we left India, we had a shared language and to some extent, we still do. However, in the intervening eleven hundred years, the language has evolved into seven related languages and numerous slightly different dialects. According to Ethnologue, the most widely spoken are the Vlax, Balkan, Carpathian and Sinte. To make all this even more complicated, Romani has thousands of words appropriated from areas we travelled through or settled in and we're traditionally an oral culture, it's only very recently that we've started writing down things like our history. The result is that a Kalderesh and a Sinti could communicate enough to get the basic gist of what each was saying but would lose finer, more subtle meanings.

For books, I can't help you. However, I've heard good things about "I Met Lucky People" (Yaron Matras). I can direct you to several websites though:
InOtherWords have a pretty good overvie (http://www.inotherwords-project.eu/content/project/media-analysis/terminology/terminology-concerning-roma)

Wiki has a pretty good account of our history (although it differs from our folklore origin myths): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Romani_people

ScottishGypsies is a pretty good info source, just be aware that it has a stated area of focus: http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/

Finally, GRTHM have a fair bit of decent info: http://grthm.natt.org.uk/index.php

[Behind the Aegis]

27. That...was...AWESOME!

Thank you very much! I am glad you mentioned "Gypsy" because I forgot to ask. I have never heard "Gyppo," (which didn't activate my spell check ), but I do know about "gyp." I am going to explore some the language leads as I am quite fond of languages and their history.

I really appreciate your information and leads. Seems there are quite a few parallels between our peoples!

[Prophet 451]

26. Oh, forgot this one

The term "anti-ziganism" comes from the earliest written record of Roma, which is a Byzantine passage that names us "Atsínganoi". It's also influenced by the Tsigani (pronounced "zig-ar-nee&quot , the name given to us in Central and Eastern Europe.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. Again....thank you!

Is "Tsigani" Romanian or Turkish?

[Prophet 451]

29. Not sure

As far as I can tell, no-one's entirely sure of the derivation. It sounds Romanian to me but that doesn't mean anything.

And you're very welcome

[Behind the Aegis]

30. I was thinking Romanian too, but possible a derivation of Turkish.

Most of the languages I speak are Romance, so I can generally see a pattern, but not too sure about that one.

I hope others appreciate the information you provided.

[frazzled]

3. The translation is a little bad here

Does it mean that that state of relations between Romani people and others is not good (meaning "bad&quot ? Or does it mean that it's bad for Romani people to coexist with others?

I presume (and hope, in comparison with the second meaning) it's the former; but the meanings are really quite different.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. It does say "evaluations of coexistence" which sounds more like the former

but I agree the language in the translation is not very specific.

[pampango]

4. Thanks for this, uhnope. Sounds like only Czechs who knew any Roma personally had a

more positive view of them.

"Only people who have Romani acquaintances or friends evaluated coexistence between the majority society and the Romani population as 'good' with any significant frequency, as did respondents who evaluate coexistence with Romani people in their own neighborhoods positively," CVVM said. The coexistence between the non-Romani population and Romani people in places where Romani people actually live is evaluated somewhat more positively than is the overall evaluation for the Czech Republic as a whole.

It's kind of a strangely worded poll - or strangely translated into English, I suppose. It seems to have asked people to evaluate "coexistence between the non-Romani population and Romani people".

My guess is that a poll taken in the US regarding "coexistence between Blacks and whites", particularly a few decades ago and in certain parts of the country would have resulted in some disappointing results as well. Simply judging that there are poor levels of "coexistence" kind of begs the question of why and what can be done about it. Perhaps those were addressed in the poll but were not mentioned in the story at the link.

[uhnope]

13. yr welcome

[Ash_F]

8. That is sad. /nt

[Prophet 451]

11. Anti-ziganism is still very prominent in much of Europe

It wasn't that long age when there were anti Rom marches even in comparatively progressive Germany.

[kelliekat44]

17. Did the Tea Party move to the CR? nt

[Scootaloo]

36. Sadly, not surprised by all the "name removed" posts...

...Okay, actually mildly surprised that they were dealt with, really.