Pro-Russia rebel 'shoot down' Ukrainian military helicopter

[dipsydoodle]

Source: Daily Telegraph / AP

Pro-Russian rebels in town of Slovyansk shoot down a Ukrainian military helicopter amid heavy fighting around the insurgent-held city in eastern Ukraine.

Slovyansk has become the epicenter of fighting between pro-Russia insurgents and government forces in recent weeks. The city - located 100 miles west of the Russian border - has seen constant clashes and its residential areas have regularly come under mortar shelling from government forces, prompting some residents to flee.

An Associated Press reporter witnessed the helicopter's downing Thursday. It wasn't immediately clear what weapons the rebels used to shoot it down, exactly where the helicopter fell or what happened to its crew.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10862222/Pro-Russia-rebel-shoot-down-Ukrainian-military-helicopter.html

---

Hardly surprising - the Donetsk truck carrying wounded in which 24 were killed after a sniper took out the driver and a helicopter then shelled it made this almost inevitable.

[jakeXT]

1. A general ?

Last edited Thu May 29, 2014, 10:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Fourteen servicemen, including a general, Vladimir Kulchtsky have have been killed in a helicopter crash near the city of Slavyansk, Donetsk Region, according to the acting president of Ukraine, Aleksandr Turchinov who spoke at a parliamentary session in Kiev.

http://rt.com/news/162248-shelling-slavyansk-kramatorsk-ukraine/

[Bosonic]

2. They were shooting down Helicopters before the Donetsk airport fight

Do try to keep up!

[warrant46]

3. wondering how "Pro Russian Rebels"

Can obtain anti aircraft guns, rockets. tanks, APCs, B-40 anti tank weapons and endless supplies of AK-47s and AK-74s ?

Doesn't this country have back ground checks for purchases such as these and who pray tell is selling the " Pro Russian Rebels" these weapons ?

[dipsydoodle]

6. Well for starters

East Ukraine is Russia main manufacturing base for such weapons.

[warrant46]

9. No wonder this guy wants to keep his arsenal of Democracy

?204

[happyslug]

14. Helicopters are designed to be shot down

You stare at them wrong, and they crash. Helicopters are mechanical wonders, if the Helicopters are maintained by the best service techancians, with the best parts and equipment, they will still crash.

Harry Reasoner of ABC news during Vietnam once did a quick observation of pilots in a club full of pilots, the calm confident ones were the fighter pilots, the older and well seasoned men were the bombers pilots and then off to the side, were the pilots who gave the impression something was going to go wrong very shortly. They were looking to their left and to their right, up and down, waiting for something bad to happen. These were the helicopter pilots.

Reasoner made the above observation (and his writing was much better then what I just did) for helicopters "crash" all the time. Most time the pilot can recover and save the Helicopter, but their still crash.

During the early days of the Iraq War Saddam had himself photographed with the first Iraqi Soldier who claimed to have shoot down a Apache Helicopter. Saddam, the soldier and the Crash Apache helicopter were all in the same photo. The weapon used? A 1898 Mauser bolt action rifle in 7.92 mm. Could that rifle take down the Apache, Yes. Did it, the Iraqis made that claim and the US did not deny it. Thus I suspect he did shoot down that Apache Helicopter with a 1898 Mauser. Now, the Apache landed in then Iraqi held territory so there was no way to confirm the story, and when it came under US control, it appears to have been old news by then. Thus it is possible the Apache just Crashed for mechanical problems.

I bring this up for Helicopters can be brought down by very simple weapons or they just crash.

[another_liberal]

4. The chocolate billionaire has plenty of money . . .

The lost of life is terrible, there is no way to bring them back.

As for the lost helicopter itself, I'm sure our new puppet in Kiev, the chocolate billionaire, has plenty of money to buy another one, and to hire new mercenaries who'll fly it against his civilian subjects in the east. In fact, I doubt very much if he will even have to pay. We in the West will most likely be called upon to foot the bill for his losses.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. "shelling of residential areas"

I'm sure the usual neocon boosters will be 'splainin why this is perfectly fine when "our" side does it.

[Bosonic]

7. Perfectly fine? No.

But it's an urban war zone, and the people shooting down helicopters are dispersed within it.

What would you have the US government do if heavily armed American Spring teabaggers took over Tallahassee, and then proceeded to shoot down one or more helicopters from its environs, Mr Stupidity?

[another_liberal]

10. If the Russian government had conspired covertly to overthrow our national government . . .

If they had then replaced it with first a stooge and then a billionaire fascist, both of whom do their bidding, I might be cheering for the folks in Tallahassee.

[truth2power]

15. +1000

[tabasco]

30. Thanks!

I needed a good laugh.

[truth2power]

19. Why was it necessary to append the words, "Mr. Stupidity" to your comment?...

Your position was clear without that.

[Bosonic]

21. Is it Miss?

[truth2power]

22. Very funny, Bosonic. Now that IS coy! n/t

[stevenleser]

11. Who is "Our" side? nt

[Warren Stupidity]

16. How coy.

[stevenleser]

17. Nothing coy about it. Who are you defining as "our" side? nt

[truth2power]

18. I don't know who "your" side is, but "my" side is those who are resisting

a coup govt. originally put in place by Nuland & Co. and which contains thugs and neo-Nazis (but I repeat myself).

Since the US might suffer some public embarrassment over the neo-Nazi participation, I notice that's been thrown down the memory hole here of late.

If the US had kept their filthy fingers out of Ukraine, we probably wouldn't be in this mess.

And since my ancestors once lived in Ukraine I suppose I'm entitled to have a side in the matter.

[stevenleser]

20. Your comments and spin are noted. I asked a specific person what they meant. nt

[truth2power]

24. Spin? ...

And I didn't see anything in the TOS that says one is not allowed to reply to a comment directed at someone else.

What I said, stands.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

23. So how did the coup happen?

Just curious as to your insight.

[truth2power]

25. I'm going to assume you're serious, mostly because you didn't call me names...

Anyone who has been following this since, when?, back in February, has seen a consistent narrative unfold; from the shootings in Kiev to Victoria Nuland, to her boy "Yats", to the National Endowment for Democracy and their $5 billion, to the reason why Yushenko decided to decline the EU offer (indebting themselves to NATO), to the actual video of the neo-Nazi thugs beating up that broadcast execuative and forcing him to sign his resignation, to the RW hero Stepan Bandera, to a plethora of articles and commentary about the political backstory, i.e. neocon "full spectrum dominance", and on and on and on.

If anyone only reads DU I can see how there might be a different narrative that hews to the Obama Administration party line, but I can't imagine that any critical thinker would look only to DU for their information.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to post a list of blue links but if you go to global research.org and type in "Ukraine" in the search box you'll see 5 pages, probably 50+ articles, from various authors and sources about the Ukraine issue.

Over the past few months I've gotten my info from a wide range of sources, but it's good that much is gathered together at GR. If that's not sufficient, then I can't be of help.

When time allows, I'd be happy to discuss the ways I critically evaluate information to the best of my ability, but that time is not now. I should have been out raking a flower bed, and now it's going to storm. Drat!

P.S. Here is one link that I came across a few days ago. A lecture by Anatol Lieven, internationally renowned scholar of geostrategic issues and security in Eurasia and expert of Central Asia and the former Soviet Union bloc.

1.5 hours long, but worth viewing. One hour is his lecture; the rest is Q&A.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38624.htm

[Tommy_Carcetti]

29. The thing is "coup" has a very specific meaning. But no one has been able to tell me how it happened

And looking at the narrative that you're claiming, frankly, it doesn't say much of anything that points to an actual coup.

There's a lot in there that is basically irrelevant--for example, the video of the Svoboda MP attacking another MP occurred after the change in power, so it's neither here nor there. For that matter, basically anything relating to Svoboda is a red herring and a bright shiny object as it relates to evidence of the supposed "coup".

The $5 billion line represents a 20+ year figure spanning numerous administrations (both US and Ukrainian) and Politifact deemed claims that it was evidence of a US led overthrow of Yanukovych as its very worst "Pants on Fire" rating:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

No offense, but what you claim as evidence of an actual western sponsored coup d'état is pretty much a jumbled mess of nothing.

The definition of coup d'état as per Websters:

: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coup%20d'%C3%A9tat

The thing is, the evidence is pretty clear that Yanukovych left under his own willpower without immediate threat of violence. He actually spent three days packing up his most valuable possessions--including a vast array of oil paintings--and then flew off on the night of February 21-22 in his own fleet of helicopters. There's video evidence of all of this:

(The first video is rather long, but Yanukovych himself is seen at 13:45 in the video)

There's nothing in there that indicates Yanukovych was being forced to leave against his will by violent means. He wasn't kidnapped, killed, arrested, nor did he flee for his life in a hurry. He simply up and left after the Maidan protests wouldn't stop. As soon as he left, the police he controlled moved back (since they had no one to report to). The next day, the Rada voted to remove him--in part because they argued he had abandoned his duties.

There was definitely a regime change in Ukraine, and arguably a revolution. However, a coup there was not. The definition of words matter.

[bemildred]

8. I had a feeling it was not over. nt

[pampango]

12. Unfortunate that the separatists attacked the Donetsk airport on Monday after Sunday's election.

After Sunday's election there seemed to be an opportunity for "cooler heads to prevail". Putin sounded like he accepted the election and that negotiations for increased autonomy for eastern Ukraine while preserving the sovereignty of Ukraine were in the offing. All of this bloodshed would have been avoided.

Many of the rebels are upset that Putin has backed off on his support for their cause. They still hope to drag Russia (perhaps "give Putin the justification to do what he really wants to do" might be a better phrasing) into using its military to give the separatists what they want - for their provinces to become a part of Russia.

It was a large-scale military attack. Not sure why capturing an airport is such an important military target for the rebels unless they thought the government retaliation might anger Russia. I hope that all the lives they sacrificed to achieve their political goal proves to be worth it.

In the most ferocious battle yet, rebels in Donetsk tried to take control of its airport Monday but were repelled by Ukrainian forces using combat jets and helicopter gunships. Dozens of men were killed and some morgues were overflowing Tuesday. Some insurgent leaders said up to 100 fighters may have been killed.

Still, fighters from Russia, including the battled-hardened region of Chechnya, have been appearing recently in the ranks of the separatists.

This sure sounds like the 'rebels' in Syria. "Fighters" from other countries are coming to Ukraine (Syria) to fight the battle against the government.

We will see if Kiev goes all "al Assad" on the rebel-held towns and reduces them to rubble.

[bemildred]

26. They took the airport bcause they intend to fight on, and to keep the government from using it.

It was actually a sharp move, but they lack organization, and the Government forces nailed them good from the air. This is not over, I wish it was, but it is not. If they can solve their logistics problems this will go on for a long time now. And the jihadis are coming. Think Syria. That's where this is heading.

[bemildred]

13. Klitschko Defied as Ukraine Protesters Won’t Leave Square

Anti-government protesters who set up camp on Kiev’s main square last year are defying plans by the Ukrainian capital’s new mayor to vacate the area.

Ex-world boxing champion Vitali Klitschko, who won a May 25 election to run the city of 2.8 million people, wants tents removed and the occupied mayor’s building freed. Demonstrators whose persistence eventually ousted President Viktor Yanukovych say the nation’s new rulers still need to complete a purge of previous state officials and punish police violence.

“A lot of promises that were made still haven’t been fulfilled,” said Yuri Synytsky, a 33-year-old former policeman who traveled 450 kilometers (280 miles) east from the Ternopil region town of Zbarazh three months ago. “We’ll stay here until all these issues are handled. We could stay here for life.”

Ukraine is seeking to turn over a new leaf after Yanukovych fled to Russia in February and billionaire chocolate magnate Petro Poroshenko won a presidential election at the weekend. Independence Square, around which more than 100 people died in clashes during the protests’s peak, remains blocked by makeshift barricades. Demonstrators, some of whom have knives and rifles, continue to live there in tents.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-29/klitschko-defied-as-ukraine-protesters-won-t-leave-square.html

[bemildred]

27. Ukraine's Special military op paused in Kramatorsk, Slaviansk – Reports

The active phase of the special operation launched by Kiev's authorities in Ukraine's east last month has been put on hold in the cities of Slaviansk and Kramatorsk, according to Ukraine's UNIAN news agency.

"The active phase of the antiterrorist operation has been put on hold in Slaviansk and Kramatorsk," the agency said.

No shooting or explosions have been reported from Kramatorsk on Thursday, but Slaviansk has been shelled for several days. Several dozen houses came under fire in the nearby towns of Andriivka and Serhiivka. Local residents hid in the basements of their homes, and several dozen people were injured.

Two Ukrainian military helicopters were downed in Slaviansk earlier on Thursday, witnesses told RIA Novosti. A total of 14 Ukrainian servicemen, including a general, were killed when one of the helicopters was downed, acting President Oleksandr Turchynov said.

http://en.cihan.com.tr/news/Ukraine-s-Special-military-op-paused-in-Kramatorsk-Slaviansk-Reports_1521-CHMTQzMTUyMS80

[bemildred]

28. Kerry troubled by reports of Chechen fighters in Ukraine

WASHINGTON: U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has raised concerns with Russia's foreign minister about reports of foreign fighters, including Chechens, crossing into Ukraine from Russia, the U.S. State Department said on Thursday.

During a phone call on Wednesday, Kerry pressed Russia's Sergei Lavrov to end support for Ukrainian separatists and to call on them to lay down their arms, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/International/2014/May-29/258190-kerry-troubled-by-reports-of-chechen-fighters-in-ukraine.ashx

[penultimate]

31. *Pro-peace freedom activists compelled helicopter crew to make hard landing*

No need to use provocative language.