Philadelphia’s Ban On ‘Vaping’ In Public Goes Into Effect Today

[onehandle]

Last edited Tue Jul 1, 2014, 04:42 PM - Edit history (2)

Source: CBS

PHILADELPHIA (CBS) – Philadelphia’s ban on using e-cigarettes in public places is now in effect.

As of this morning, no more using e-cigs — or “vaping” — in public places, such as bars, restaurants or workplaces in the city.

It’s all part of a law signed by Mayor Nutter in April (see related story) that grouped the e-cigarettes and all similar devices into the existing ban on public smoking.

Out puffing on an e-cig this morning, Chad Doberstein from Northern Liberties says he’s okay with the new law. “I think it’s reasonable. People get upset, (but) I don’t think you need to smoke it inside. I just want to be able to keep smoking it (outside).”

Read more: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/07/01/philadelphias-vaping-ban-goes-into-effect-today

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FYI: This isn't a 'ban.' It just rolls 'vaping' into existing smoking laws. Which many municipalities from coast to coast are doing. Perfectly reasonable.

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[RobinA]

1. Well...

If municipalities from coast to coast are doing it, it must be right. Yep.

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. There is no scientific basis for this. It is the result of anti-tobacco bigotry and prejudice.

People see vapor and think they see smoke and get offended. It's stupid.

[The Straight Story]

5. Yeah, but bigtory based on how something (someone?) looks is an accepted practice

If it looks like smoking - it is!

Even smoking on TV can harm others:

John Constantine Won't Be Smoking On TV
http://io9.com/john-constantine-wont-be-smoking-on-tv-1597712131

Cause we all know if you see something on tv it forces you to do it (even the right believes that when it comes to acceptance of abortion on shows, etc and so on - we are, at some core levels, the same).

[alp227]

11. "Forces you to do it" is the wrong frame for depicting taboos on TV.

Instead, the right phrase is "makes the behavior less unacceptable."

"even the right believes that when it comes to acceptance of abortion on shows, etc and so on - we are, at some core levels, the same" Seriously? You're comparing smoking and abortion? These faulty comparisons with smoking...smoking blows unwanted filth in everyone else's space!

[pnwmom]

8. There is no approved FDA research showing that second hand smokers are safe.

And there is research showing that formaldehyde, metal particles, and other toxins have been detected in the off gas of e-cigarettes, as well as nicotine, of course.

There is plenty of scientific basis to require that e-cig vapers take their nicotine dispensers outside.

[phleshdef]

18. Those were trace amount of those toxins at negligible levels and were found in Chinese products.

Theres a certain level of similar toxins found in all kinds of things, but they are generally harmless when so low. But aside from that, I've only seen research point to Chinese made products as containing those toxins at all. Like a lot of things that come from China, stuff like that shouldn't be sold in the US.

Given that, I don't blow my vapor in anyone's face anyway. I've always been polite with my habits.

[Demit]

3. Of course it's a ban. A ban on vaping in public places, just as the H/L says.

[nyabingi]

6. This is silly...

I could understand if vaping involved burning tobacco but it doesn't.

As a vaper myself, I usually go outside to vape by choice simply because it feels more natural to do.

[pnwmom]

9. It isn't silly that most people don't want to breath in your off-gas,

which various studies have shown can include formaldehyde and metal particles.

You can choose to risk your own lungs but you shouldn't be able to inflict your choice on anyone else.

[nyabingi]

14. If you are in a room with another person,

you are sharing the same air with them and everything they are breathing out. You are also mingling your dead skin cells with theirs in the form of dust and all sorts of other things which are unseen.

I think most people who vape respect the wishes of others not to have to breathe in what we breathe in, but this push to regulate vaping and its products is simply a response from a frightened tobacco industry to shut down a healthier alternative to their product and profit.

I'd like to see these "studies" saying that vapor contains formaldehyde and metal particles. I'm skeptical of that because vapor is made of vegetable glycerin and propylene glycol (both FDA regulated substances) and optionally nicotine. Perhaps you're talking about tobacco products?

[pnwmom]

16. I would think you would be aware of studies involving the products

you're inhaling. But here you go:

http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/are-e-cigarettes-safe-to-use-new-research-shows-metals-found-in-vapor-of-electronic-cigarettes

"I would say e-cigarettes are the cigarettes of the 21 st century," according to scientist Dr. Prue Talbot. She and her team at the University of California Riverside are among the first in the country to analyze the vapor in e-cigarettes.
The ABC15 Investigators had her team test two brands of e-cigarettes using a smoking machine and a specialized microscope.
The first test was for Smoking Everywhere Platinum. It showed metals.
"There is quite a bit of tin. Most of this material is composed of tin," said Dr. Talbot. "There is also some oxygen, some copper and some nickel."
Smoking Everywhere Platinum had so much metal in the vapor that it created pellets.

SNIP

[nyabingi]

19. You're assuming all vaping products

are alike and contain the same thing, but that just shows that you don't really know what you're talking about. And don't insult my intelligence by assuming I'm not smart enough to look into what's in these things before using them.

People who have replaced tobacco cigarettes with vaporizers have most likely moved on from the cigarette-shaped products they sell in convenience stores, and many people assemble and build their own vaporizers, mix their own juice and have total control over what they are inhaling. I've never heard of "Smoking Everywhere Platinum" and it sounds like a crappy attempt at making an e-cigarette.

You can find all kinds of pro and con articles on vaping, and you can gravitate towards the negative ones, but you should be encouraging those who have given up tobacco cigarettes (many after years and years of trying to quit) to keep working towards becoming nicotine-free. Instead, we get people like you who only want to poo-poo the happiness others have experienced from giving up one of their most-hated bete noires.

[pnwmom]

20. No, I'm not. But NO vaping product has submitted research to the FDA

demonstrating its safety. Until they do, all we have to go on are studies independent researchers have been conducting.

And trusting people who are cooking up their own juices and think they know what's in them.

[nyabingi]

22. As if the FDA is an honest, above-corruption organization

that isn't susceptible to political and economic pressure? We both know that the FDA has approved some pretty bad things for public consumption in the past so I wouldn't trust them to be an impartial judge as to whether the stuff making up e-liquid is safe or not. I'd be interested to see long-term studies of vaping when enough time passes, but until then, I'll cross my fingers and hope everything's on the up and up.

Standard e-liquid only has three or four ingredients - what an individual chooses to add to their own mixture is their personal business, deadly or not.

The moral of this story is that most vapers will have no problem vaping in designated areas away from people who think everything they're breathing in should be clear of anything other than what's naturally in air.

[pnwmom]

23. I don't care what you inhale into your body. Just don't vape in public spaces indoors.

There's no way for me to look at a vaper and know what's coming out in the off-gas. So I shouldn't have to deal with it on an airplane or at work or anywhere else inside.

[sir pball]

17. Links to these "studies", please.

I give literally zero credence to statements, or even abstracts/article summaries, that simply say "product 'includes'" or "substance has been 'detected'"; modern analytical methods are so sensitive that simply getting a positive result is utterly meaningless. (Source - my chemistry degree) There have been serious issues of running afoul of outdated regulations that call for the absolute lack of a substance in a product, e.g. the ban on Red Bull Cola in Germany because it contained "traces of cocaine" - something like two parts per billion, an utterly insignificant amount but still TECHNICALLY illegal.

I'm not surprised there's detectable traces of metal in vape, after all the e-cigs are made of metal and some will inevitably leach into the gas. Ditto formaldehyde, it's not an unthinkable pyrolitic product. Of course, if it's 1.3ppb atomized copper and 4ppt (yes, we can detect parts per trillion easily now) formaldehyde as opposed to the ten thousand times higher levels in cigs, there's absolutely zero concern. You can just admit that really, you just don't like the "normalization" of smoking, hell, the UK's ongoing war on e-cigs openly cites that as a main causus belli.

[pnwmom]

21. Pellets of metal were found in at least one study. But if vaping is so safe,

why don't the vaping companies submit their own safety studies to the FDA?

http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/are-e-cigarettes-safe-to-use-new-research-shows-metals-found-in-vapor-of-electronic-cigarettes

"I would say e-cigarettes are the cigarettes of the 21 st century," according to scientist Dr. Prue Talbot. She and her team at the University of California Riverside are among the first in the country to analyze the vapor in e-cigarettes.
The ABC15 Investigators had her team test two brands of e-cigarettes using a smoking machine and a specialized microscope.
The first test was for Smoking Everywhere Platinum. It showed metals.
"There is quite a bit of tin. Most of this material is composed of tin," said Dr. Talbot. "There is also some oxygen, some copper and some nickel."
Smoking Everywhere Platinum had so much metal in the vapor that it created pellets.

SNIP

[angstlessk]

7. I've been vaping for some time...dern...wish I could get a hit like

that lady,,,damn!

[okasha]

10. Reminds me of Morgana

at the end of Excalibur.

[colorado_ufo]

12. I didn't think them offensive at all until . . .

a client sat across from me, at my desk, puffing away. The longer she sat and puffed, the more nauseated I got! The vapor is not odor-free, and likely the residual nicotine added to my queasy feeling. The smell permeated the store, and I had to air out the place when she left. The next time she visited, she did not actively "vape," but I was amazed that she still seemed to exhale the smell. It apparently stays in the lungs for some time.

I don't care that people vape (is that the word?), but it is not unreasonable to expect them to do it only in certain venues (as the commercial says, "Like my favorite cluuub!&quot

[nyabingi]

15. That person just sounds rude as hell (nt)

[JoeyT]

13. Nutty prohibitionists strike again.

Those people look to be having fun in a way I disapprove of. Well we certainly can't have that.