Israeli Military: 2 Rockets Fired From Gaza Into Israel, Violating Cease-Fire
Source: USA TODAY
CNN is also reporting this. Developing and waiting for wire copy.
Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/07/iraq-christian-villages-flee/13710265/
IDF Says Two Rockets Land In Israel
By JPOST.COM STAFF
LAST UPDATED: 08/08/2014 04:41
The IDF said that two rockets landed in Israel on Friday morning, before the end of the 72-hour cease-fire.
http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/IDF-says-two-rockets-land-in-Israel-370458
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)What is so hard about keeping the cease fire? My goodness. Israel is not going to lean back and let this happen.
Igel
(35,300 posts)Hamas must have made it clear it's willing to kick some serious Islamofanatic butt.
There are various groups, and some make Hamas look sweet and dainty. They'd be itching to show that they have bigger external genitals than Hamas does, even if it means that some on the home team get to take one for Allah.
Israel will sit back, I'd guess, and weigh options--and check chatter, to see if it *was* Hamas and what Hamas does to tamp down miscreants. While the fundie fools get macho "green stamp" points for their stamp books, Israel stands to get "we're better than that" points for theirs. Plus to do otherwise would be to let a small group dictate terms and conditions of behavior. Better to assault by intent than be manipulated into assaulting by minor provocation.
but if Israel fires back can we FINALLY see that it is NOT Israel's intent to disrupt the ceasefire, but to protect themselves. I have not posted too much on these threads because it amazes me.....
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)plus, Israel ran out of targets.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)@jaketapper: Hamas spox Gaza: "what is reported regarding firing rockets towards the occupation are Israeli reports aimed at confusing the situation"
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)There are millions of Palestinians. They don't have the discipline and organization of a real army.
The problem is the proliferation of the weapons in the first place.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)I think we're looking at a new record.
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)They must have made a loud bang when they landed harmlessly in the desert.
Unless there are a lot more forthcoming in the 3 1/2 hours before the truce was due to expire anyway, I'd guess this is the work of a few hotheads in a splinter group rather than Hamas' own militias, whose P.R. interest would be best served by making Israel restart hostilities first. Still, I'm sure it will give Bibi all he needs to kill a few hundred more Palestinian children.
E-Z-B
(567 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)I won't hold my breath.
Iamthetruth
(487 posts)Because Israel can't take one step out of bounds without many on this board calling for war crimes investigations, while hama, who has broken every ceasefire so far can fire rockets into Israel without any noise from those very same people. Mind you every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime by definition because it is aimed at civilian populations, at least to the best these losers can aim.
TheMick
(23 posts)....one rocket to kill you. But at least it reaffirms my view that Hamas has no interest in any sort of cease fire.
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)From Israeli claims, Hamas has fired off over 3,600 rockets. How many have resulted in fatalities? ONE. And that was because it had the (mis)chance to hit a gas station. Those things are simply not much of a threat to anyone.
As to Hamas having "no interest in a cease fire," surely you noticed quiet over the past couple of days, didn't you? The cease-fire was about to expire today anyway, and talks had broken down when Israel refused to respond to a Palestinian offer. Armed conflict would have started up again 3 1/4 hours from the time I wrote this. Two rockets indicate to me that a splinter group jumped the gun -- if this had been a synchenized Hamas attack, a hell of a lot more than two rockets would have been launched in a barrage.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Israel should just ignore it and pretend it's just a big joke. Right? I mean, running to the bomb shelters should just be considered good exercise.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)I DID read that more Israelis were hurt by running to their bomb shelters, than hurt by any rocket.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Hamas: We will never give up armed resistance
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/17618134-hamas-we-will-never-give-up-armed-resistance
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)How can Israel enter into serious negotiations with Hamas and other Palestinian leaders if the Palestinians cannot speak for all of their citizens when they negotiate?
I think that is the problem for Israel. Kerry and the Egyptians very much want to negotiate peace. But will it be possible for the Palestinians to enforce a peace?
To have negotiations on the Palestine/Israel dispute, you need to have all parties present and in accord. Is that possible if Palestinians have splinter groups?
That's the question Israel is asking.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to relate to that. Israel is all evil to them.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)against any Palestinian who they "believe" is collaborating with Israel (a pretty generic claim), usually executing them without compunction. But many here would have us believe that Hamas is ) totally incompetent in knowing who the 'splinter groups' are and 2) totally unable to reign them in to enforce the cease fire. If you believe that I've got some lovely beachfront property in the Everglades that I'd like to sell you.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)unless it can be sure that, once it gives it up, once it enters into an agreement, that agreement will be enforced, respected by ALL on the other side.
That is true in any negotiation. There are always checkpoints that must be met. An agreement can't be just enforced by one side. That principle does not just apply to Israel and Palestine. It is pretty universal.
That is why the Middle East is in such trouble with constant wars and killings. Promises are not kept. Countries don't have the ability to enforce their agreements within their own territory.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)You know, like South Africa.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I personally don't think Hamas is behind this.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I hope the fighting does not resume and I hope cooler heads prevail over these two rockets being fired. I was probably not done by Hamas, but by one of the smaller extremist groups.
Adding: The streets are quiet at the moment.
http://takemelive.com/external/rtrawsrv2.html
4now
(1,596 posts)If it ever expects to find peace.
End Israeli apartheid:
Boycott, Divest, Sanction.
http://www.bdsmovement.net/
calilama
(18 posts)Unless you are just looking for a reason to hate Israel.......which is what it seems to me to be the case
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And the dead babies. It's always illegal to kill babies.
I think Israel should stop sending out internet warriors. They breed more disgust for Israel.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's gone on regardless of what political party was leading the governing coalition in Israel.
I would point out that Palestinians have killed their share of babies in Israel over the years.
I do agree with you, however, that Israel's disregard for civilian lives, specifically children (and more specifically infants) has, naturally, bred disgust.
That being said, shooting rockets at Israeli civilians is not the way to go, in my opinion.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)No rockets for 19 mos and still no easing of the blockade. Say nothing and try to make a peace deal, they get MORE settlmnts announced by Likud. Send Kerry over to Isarel, Likud announces MORE settlements. Have Obma talk to Bibi, MORE settlments. Send the PA, Israel says no, because they can't make a deal without a coalition govt, MORE settlemtnts. Make a coalition government, MORE settlemnts.
Nothing works. It is time to take the blinders off and realize that the OCCUPATION is the problem. If Israel were occupying my town, we's shoot rockets all day every day. We are Americans. We don't take shit from nobody.
How long does Israel think it can get away with 'settling' on other peoples property and stealing resources before the entire world gets disgusted with them? I'm done, I'm completly disgusted and I will never believe another word coming from that nation until they get rid of LIKUD and tgeir right wing settler mentality. They can't just keep STEALING and antagonizing people and then bombing the SHIT out of the poor people that they confine in an opn air prison. No.
Not to mention all of the accusations of antisemitism for not agreeing with Israeli policy? They shoukd soon relize that all of the nasty things they sah to people whos money funds their little wars is working against them.
I'm proud to be a millenial, a group that has not fallen for the okie doke. Thank goodness we will have more power in time and Israel will get cut off. Twenty years is a long time, but it will come as a shock to the oppressors when our nations browning up is complete. Woe to the oppressor when that happens.
hack89
(39,171 posts)They were fired by groups other than Hamas we are told. If Hamas cannot control Gaza than Israel will. I personally think Hamas could stop every rocket if the wanted - they just don't want to.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And 'settling' in their land does not show that Israel has ANY good intentions. At all. At one time I was supportive of Israel. NEVER AGAIN!
And all of the Israel can do no wrongers are really solidifying my position. They scream that Hamas is using Human Shields. That is to deflect from the truth that they were using human shields.
They yell that hamas are terrorists. Hamas! Hamas! With the hardest 'H' possible. But I see Hamas killing soldiers and Israel killing babies while blaming the parents. Who are the real terrorists? The one killing babies or the ones killing soldiers? Answer: The ones killing babies. The baby killing people are the 'real terrorists'. I never support the murder of children by grown ass soldiers.
Israel has lost my generation. I have no need for a holy land. I am an atheist.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/neighbors-won-t-be-serving-1.171577 proof of Israel using human shields.
hack89
(39,171 posts)They can do a lot more than just standing there with their thumbs up their asses.
I too am an atheist - I support Israel.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)So that Israel can steal more land and resources without any opposition? I would shoot rockets at my occupiers to. So would you.
I'm younger than you. Israel may do allright now. But my generation will be around for a long time with visions of dead Palestinian babies seared into my brain. I will never forget this. Ever.
All those lies. All of the rudeness of Netanyahu and the racism of Likud will be remembered by me and retold by me until i die.
The longer this goes on the more i look to see whats up with Israel. This is what i find. Racists in the Knesset. Bunch of right wingers. I will never support a right wing government that treats people who look like me like trash. Period. Google it sometimes, and sit back and think for a spell.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9287715/Israeli-anti-immigration-riots-hit-African-neighbourhood-of-Tel-Aviv.html
http://hiphopandpolitics.com/2013/10/21/must-married-n-gger-anti-african-rallies-explode-israel/
hack89
(39,171 posts)If you think rockets will get them what they want then fine. Let's see how things play out.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I DO support the right to resist occupation and imprisonment by collonial forces who have demonstrated the desire to oppress you to death.
Read my links and then ask me again why I a black Atheist Do NOT support Israel. Read them. I dare you to actually see the profound racism inherent in Israel politics.
I think time will give them what they want. Israel is losing the future by killing so many innocents. They will be boycotted. BDS is already getting a boost from this and America is the only country supporting the in the UN security council. Eventually we will ABSTAIN.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)
Wow, really?
That surprises me, because most Palestinians actually do not support shooting rockets "all day every day". The average Palestinian in Gaza has nothing to do with such behavior.
And in the West Bank, where the occupation is much more direct (there are no settlements in Gaza, whereas they are all over the place in the West Bank), the number of Palestinians who support shooting rockets at Israel is even lower.
And no rockets are actually shot at Israel from there.
It seems weird on a progressive board like this that there would be a higher degree of support for shooting rockets at Israeli civilians than there is among the Palestinians themselves who for the most part do not embrace such violent actions against innocent people despite actually being under occupation.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)has to suffer any of the consequences from hamas and their rockets. They're the same that call the rockets "firecrackers".
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Yet here is a poster articulating support for the Hamas position Id shoot rockets all day every day over the non-Hamas position (i.e. shooting rockets is not the way to go).
And you have several other posters expressing support for this view (and it's a view I've seen expressed fairly frequently).
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)They're being completely disingenuous saying they don't support hamas because they defend what hamas has done all fucking day long.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I am doing my best to sort it all out.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)In fact, I go out of my way to ensure that I don't misrepresent anyone's point of view and am happy to be corrected if I have inadvertently done so.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Israel would be foolish to try that shit up here. I am not the type of person to turn the other cheek. Steal my land, kill my kids, kill my sons and mother.... You better watch your back for eternity because I will follow you through the seven hells to destroy you. Americans would lief die than live in an open air prison. "Give me Liberty or give me death!" That applies to the Palestinians to i suppose. I suppose ALL humans deserve the right to freedom. Even Palestinians. Israel needs to free Gaza or there will one day be no Israel. This cannot go on forever.
It's weird that on a progressive board we have so many people supporting the Right Wing RACIST government of Israel. http://hiphopandpolitics.com/2013/10/21/must-married-n-gger-anti-african-rallies-explode-israel/
That's how Israel treats people who look like me.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)If I may quote Keith Ellison, "The vast majority of Gazans do not support firing rockets into Israel or killing Israelis."
I myself stand with that vast majority.
If you are more comfortable supporting (or at least empathizing with) the Hamas approach, that is your prerogative.
I would think that most folks here would be disdainful of the actions the RW Israeli government as well as the actions of the RW Hamas militants.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It makes no difference. I would, if living in an open air prison with bombs falling on my home shoot rockets all day every day at the occupying forces.
What do you think we did to the British? Guerrilla warfare. We would have never won fighting them head up with out using whatever means necessary. It is the American way to fight for freedom. I am an American. It is also MY way. Watch the Patriot. http://hiphopandpolitics.com/2013/10/21/must-married-n-gger-anti-african-rallies-explode-israel/
Another reason to dislike Israel for my black self.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Specifically:
"If Israel were occupying my town, we'd shoot rockets all day every day."
And again here you write:
"I would, if living in an open air prison with bombs falling on my home shoot rockets all day every day at the occupying forces."
Not sure what exactly is being twisted here - you seem to be making your point in quite a straightforward way.
If your comments are not meant to express support or empathy for what Hamas is doing (i.e. shooting rockets) then I may not be fully understanding the point you are making.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Me. Thats why I said I. And I still say that MY town would not be submissive to Israel at all. So maybe I just think that all of the ARROGANCE of the Israeli Government is dangerous. To themselves, to Palestine, to their relationship with MY generation, and to their relations with the entire world. If everybody has a problem with what you are doing.... Maybe it's time to reassess.
And yes, you got me. I'm from the hood, I don't really take shit from anybody and I have been in my share of fights. But i never stick around and oppress the person who jumped on me after I beat them up. I leave. Like Israel should do. That's where I'm coming from. I lived in the american Ghetto and it was super nice compared with Gaza. And WE rioted with less provocation than Gaza receives from Israel. Burned the whole city. If Israel keeps it up, not only will they have to worry about Hamas, they will have to deal with riots in Israel proper and the West Bank. And one day the US will ABSTAIN. Guarantee it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Can you understand why some Israelis might feel similarly with respect to Palestinians? Can you relate to the Israelis who suffered though years of terrorist attacks by Palestinians against civilians in Israel (men, women, children, elderly) have perhaps hardened attitudes as well?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They need to reflect upon how they are seen by the world NOW. They need to protect themselves in the future by NOT pissing off EVERYONE in the world. They need to make peace and stop making more and more demands of a people they have already oppressed for decades. Enough is enough. No claiming territory that wasn't theirs to begin with. No more settlements. Withdraw from ALL occupied territory and then a peace plan cam be put into place. They have been there FAR too long and have taken FAR to much from people who didn't have much to begin with. How long does Palestine have to be their whipping boy? Occupiers cannot SETTLE land they OCCUPY with their OWN people. That is illegal. Time to go home and resolve this issue by talking and diplomacy. Otherwise i do believe there will be a terrible price to pay for both sides. Why continue fighting a war that will never be won?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I think they should do all the things you've outlined here as well.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)about what can occur out of desperation. Somehow I doubt that was lost on you but you
seem to think it gave you an opportunity to suggest she was embracing violence.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Obviously a big chunk of Palestinians feel that way and do support Hamas in what they are doing.
The majority, though, don't, and I agree with them.
Most Palestinians don't support shooting rockets. Amnesty International does not support shooting rockets. The UN Human Rights Council does not support shooting rockets. The Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza does not support shooting rockets.
I would think DU would line up on that side of the question as well.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Didn't mean it that way.
The Hamas position is that shooting rockets is legit. The poster said that they too would shoot rockets if they were in a similar situation. It seems like that is an expression of an agreement with the Hamas position. If it's not, I am happy to stand corrected.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)also clear, I feel, that she was speaking of people defending themselves.
If one is going to rely on Gandhi as I have noticed on DU, then at least consider all his
opinions, not a select few:
I WOULD risk violence a thousand times rather than risk the emasculation of a whole race.
Violence the Choice
I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence... I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor.
But I believe that nonviolence is infinitely superior to violence, forgiveness is more manly than punishment. Forgiveness adorns a soldier...But abstinence is forgiveness only when there is the power to punish; it is meaningless when it pretends to proceed from a helpless creature....
But I do not believe India to be helpless....I do not believe myself to be a helpless creature....Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.
We do want to drive out the best in the man, but we do not want on that account to emasculate him. And in the process of finding his own status, the beast in him is bound now and again to put up his ugly appearance.
The world is not entirely governed by logic. Life itself involves some kind of violence and we have to choose the path of least violence.
http://www.mkgandhi.org/nonviolence/phil8.htm
deathrind
(1,786 posts)amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Missiles shot from Gaza into Israel before end of truce.
Possible US air strikes (USAF and Naval Aviation) in northern Iraq in support of humanitarian mission and to protect Kurdish capital of Erbil.
Donetsk separatists shoot down Ukrainian air force plane with BUK, while fighting rages in Donetsk and Luhansk.
I really feel bad for the non-combatants in all these areas.
Turbineguy
(37,317 posts)and wants more war crimes.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)IDF say 2 rockets landed
Other reports say 2 rockets intercepted
Haaretz reports that there were 2 mortar shells and rockets began after the end of the ceasefire.
It's almost as if Israel was looking for a convenient excuse ...
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The hamas rockets are all in everyone's imagination. Is there no limit to the amount of defense you want to give to a terrorist organization shooting rockets?
intaglio
(8,170 posts)They indicate confusion in the Israeli sourced reports. I have not yet see any Palestinian sourced reports
But I'm interrupting your hero worship, sorry.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)did you forget that part?
No, Israeli sourced reports = propaganda. Palestinian sourced reports = opposing propaganda. Independent reports unlikely.
Galraedia
(5,022 posts)Israel can't claim the occupied Palastinian territory being fired on as part of Israel since acquisition of territory through war is ILLEGAL under international law.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The rockets landed in southern Israel which is not generally considered part of the Occupied Territories (i.e. West Bank and Gaza).
Are you saying that all of Israel is Occupied Palestinian Territory?
Galraedia
(5,022 posts)The Zionists won the fighting, and during the course of the fighting took additional lands bringing their total holdings to about 75% of the lands of Palestine, which they kept.
Even though this additional land was thus illegally gained in violation of both the Hague Regulations (1907) and UN Charter (1945) which both included the basic legal principle that it is illegal to acquire territory by force, these new boundaries soon became the accepted boundaries of the new State of Israel in the various peace agreements Israel signed with its neighbors.
Source: http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/internationallaw/studyguides/sgil3a.htm
The resolution which allows Israel to acquire territory occupied in is untenable in international law. Since the 1920s, international law no longer recognizes that a state can acquire title to territory by conquest, in other words by acquiring it through war. Israels victory could not, therefore, grant Israel either sovereignty or a right to acquire sovereignty over territories which it occupied. International law thus gave Israel no right to acquire sovereignty over any of the territories.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What part of Israel would you not consider to be occupied Palestinian territory?
Galraedia
(5,022 posts)Any other territory Israel has acquired through war it has no right to claim as part of Israel. While they could legally occupy the territories outside the boundaries set by the U.N. after the 1948 Palestinian war, they violated international law when they began destroying villages and homes in Palestinian territory and transferring their own civilians into that territory.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Neither did any of the Arab states in the region.
What gave the UN the right to give that territory away to Zionist colonists from Europe against the wishes of the native people who lived there?
Galraedia
(5,022 posts)Around the start of the 20th century the Zionist movement started which called for Jews to return to the land of Israel in what had been known as Palestine for around some 2,000 years. After WWI Palestine came under occupation by the British. During this time the British allowed Jewish immigrants into Palestine and the Zionists began colonizing parts of the country. After WWII, Zionists pressured Britain to split off Palestine. Britain, unable to solve the matter without breaking international law, turned the matter over to the U.N. The U.N. split Palestine, giving 56% to the Zionists, who used it to form the country of Israel. Palestinians were not given a say in the matter. However, the Zionists were well armed because they knew that this would upset the Palestinians. The fact that the Palestinians were willing to fight was actually beneficial to Israel as it gave them a reason to occupy Palestinian territory. Israel would then use this occupation to kill civilians and burn down the villages and homes of Palestinian civilians so that they could force them oout of their land.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)to the bottle rockets falling in an empty field, a 10 year old boy Ibrahim was killed by Israeli drone while playing near a mosque. His head was partially blown off.
In daylight, I would think the drone operator would be able to see children playing. Then again, they probably did.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)If New Jersey imposed a naval, air and land blockade of Manhattan, shooting those coming or going from Manhattan, shooting those trying to get goods in or out, then I imagine Manhattan would demand a lifting of the blockade.
What would you expect those in Manhattan to do facing such a blockade which caused 80% of its residents to earn less than $1.50 per day?
Hamas had said that they would not honor the ceasefire if after 2 days Israel failed to open the Gaza port.
Israel refused to open the port.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The Hamas position is that disarming is out of the question and a deal breaker.
dem1926
(5 posts)peace for all beings.......now and forever