Russia Says It Chases Away Apparent U.S. Submarine in Barents Sea

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

Associated Press
Aug. 9, 2014 12:22 p.m. ET

MOSCOW—Russian state news agencies said the country's navy claims to have driven away a submarine believed to be American that entered Russia's northern waters.

The reports on Saturday cited an unidentified representative of the navy's general staff as saying the incident occurred on Thursday in the Barents Sea, which lies off northwest Russia and is home to the navy's Northern Fleet.

The reports said the fleet sent several vessels and an anti-submarine Il-38 aircraft to drive the submarine away.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/articles/russia-says-it-chases-away-apparent-u-s-submarine-in-barents-sea-1407601335?mod=_newsreel_4

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Russia Forces US Submarine Out of Boundary Waters

MOSCOW, August 9 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's Northern Fleet's anti-submarine forces have detected and forced out a US submarine from Russian boundary waters, a high-ranking source in Russia's Navy told RIA Novosti Saturday.

"On August 7, 2014, the patrol forces of the Northern Fleet detected a foreign submarine, supposedly a US Navy Virginia-class one, in the Barents Sea. A seaborne anti-submarine group, as well as an anti-submarine airplane Il-38, was sent to the region to search and track it down," the source said.

The Russian navy forced the submarine out of Russian waters after a 27-minute contact.

"This is far from being a single incident of finding foreign submarines in the Barents Sea lately. Similar behavior of NATO countries' submarines in the Barents Sea has caused dangerous navigational incidents many times," the source said.

more...

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140809/191869986/Russia-Forces-US-Submarine-Out-of-Boundary-Waters.html

[TwilightGardener]

1. Mmm hmm.

[Amonester]

2. Russian False Flag Op?

[kjones]

3. Awww

I was hoping there would be boasting of how Putin
swam to the bottom of the ocean to push the
sub away.

[AngryDem001]

5. Leave that to FR and John McCain.

[christx30]

6. With a knife in his teeth.

After he was done with the job, he rode back to shore on the back of a shark (looking bored) He was welcomed back home by the screaming adulation of his citizens. What a man.

[kjones]

7. "Shark week now replaced with Putin month"

I rather enjoy Putin fables.
They remind me of Paul Bunyan stories.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

4. I think I read that Tom Clancy novel...

Or is this the sequel? The Hunt For Next October?

[roamer65]

8. Looks like the Cold War is back.

Yay.

[Diclotican]

9. Purveyor

Purveyor

Well - this is not exactly news - as the US and Russia - was doing this for 40 year under the cold war - specially after Russia was building bigger - more advanced nuclear powered nuclear driven submarines from the late/early 1960s it was a cat and mouse game - where US was into the game as the mouse who wanted to look close up on the cat - and the cat sometimes hit back when the mouse was to close to comfort... In some cases the mouse was extremely lucky and was able to look close up and personal into the home of the cat - sometimes they even photographed submarines and other surface ships before most russian was in the know they existed. as the US submarines was rather well build - and more quiet than their adversaries in Russia...

My guess is that the US wanted - and have getting more intel about how good russians have been rebuilding their northern fleet - after all after Putin got into power the russian state have spend a lot of money rebuilding their forces - first and foremost their air force and army - but also the navy woes submarines still are a potent treat to NATO and US if it ever happened to be a war against Russia (something I doubt mostly because Russia do have nuclear weapons - and have stated will to use them if attacked by for reign forces, something that both current and former governments of Russia have stated is their policy - never to use it firsthand - but if attached the use of nuclear weapons is absolutely on the table) And I also believe that Russia is far more touchy about their naval forces now than it was 10-15 years ago.. As they have refurnished or build new classes of ships - and submarines to replace the old ships and classes of ships and submarines...

But then again - Russia is up to old/new games I guess - and I suspect even if they managed to "get that sub running out of their space" they have some way to go - before they was as good - or bad as in the old days when US and Russia was plying that cat and mouse game all over the world - or in the dept of the world oceans...

And I suspect also a few submarines from other countries - from NATO have been around that place over the last year or so - to look and to get some information - and Russia got more experience in the old game of ASW warfare.... Something I suspect both US and Russia is shaping up on as old times - suddenly is there again....

Hopefully in this old game - no one get hurt - and both sides in this game - is playing by "rules" set in stone 50 year ago - at least in peacetime - no one should be hurt - in war time - it could mean people getting killed - and many families on both sides be without a far or without a husband or brother ...

Diclotican

[BumRushDaShow]

10. Diclotican

Do you think that it might also be related to this - http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014866388

Here is some information from the article that was posted from the above link -

Russian nuclear bombers were spotted flying near Alaska this week. The bombers were escorted by fighter jets, floating just outside of U.S. and Canadian airspace. This is the second such sighting since June, sparking the attention of American military jets.

Major Beth Smith, of the U.S. Northern Command and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), has said "Over the past week, NORAD has visually identified Russian aircraft operating in and around the U.S. air defense identification zones." There have been about 16 Russian forays in the Alaskan and north Canadian area in the last 10 days.

It is not entirely uncommon to see Russian planes in this airspace, however, the increased number of such planes seems to be triggering some concern amongst the aviation military community, particularly given the increased tension in Ukraine. Smith referred to this number of forays as "a spike in activity."

Smith noted that these were training missions, though a spy plane and anti-submarine plane were spotted among the bombers. However, another defense official told the Washington Free Beacon they believe this is more than just a training flight. The official stated "[Russian strategic nuclear forces appear to be] trying to test our air defense reactions, or our command and control systems. These are not just training missions."

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/08/russian-nuclear-bombers-keep-roaming-closer-to-us-airspace/375791/

Here is the "cat and mouse" in reverse! We are under the water and they are in the air.

[red dog 1]

12. Good post!

[Diclotican]

15. red dog 1

red dog 1

Thank you - I am not a submariner - but I have always been fascinated by the submarine -and I guess I have learned a few things on the road too - but I am just an amateur by all means...

Diclotican

[red dog 1]

16. Back in 2010, there were credible reports that a Chinese Yin Class Sub

actually launched a ballistic missile off the coast of Southern California, much to the chagrin of the United States Navy which was engaging in maneuvers in the area at the time, and which had absolutely no idea that the Chinese sub was even there until AFTER it fired it's missile.

Do you remember this?.

[BlueEye]

17. I remember that.

The media kept bringing on "experts" to say it was an airplane contrail. It certainly did not look like one... I haven't heard the Chinese sub part of it, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

[Diclotican]

19. red dog 1

red dog 1

I do remember the incident - it was some of a shock for the United States Navy to put it mildly - that an Chinese submarine was able to not just go undetected under the nose of the US Navy - but even firing of a ballistic missile off the coast of California - I suspect it rattled the cage on board some ships and also rattled the cage in Pentagon when that message got true the channels... I guess it must have been some of a nightmare for them - to discover the whole thing....


And I guess the captain on board the submarine - was given some praise from his commanding officers in PRC when he came home - and was able to inform them about how he was able to sneak himself and the submarine under the nose of the pride of the US navy - and pop up to shoot off a missile...

Diclotican

[Anansi1171]

26. Following along and I remember the "mystery missle" here in...

..."SoCal". Would love to learn your thoughts on the sinking of the Kursk.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster

[Diclotican]

13. BumRushDaShow

BumRushDaShow

It could be - related - mostly because US and Russia have been playing this game for a long time - Russia are also doing the same around our border now and then - for the most part our air force have been up to the task - flying out to identify the aircraft - and if the russians is to close friendly remind them how they are - and politely show them the way out of Norwegian airspace - the russians have been polite - and did as asked - as their parents did before them under the cold war when it was a possibility of a war... But in the last couple of years the russians have been closer to our assets in the northern sea, specially the oil production than before - it have also been more active flying from its bases in Murmansk and around there - to bases in Cuba and other places where russia are welcome or have bases who is able to handle the TU95 Bear (who by the way is a russian sibling of he B52 Bomber) or the bigger TU160 Blackjack - who for some years now have started to be more active again - after been on the ground for a decade or more - and almost not getting air time at all - so the new crew have to start more or less from scratch learning the aircrafts from the older pilots who is often near their retirment...


I guess it is a way to show their own forces they are up to the task - and to give the russians at large an impression that the russian air force, naval and army is able to defend the "Motherland" against enemies... And I guess the russians are using this test to also learn new maneuvers - like using their long range bombers - ASW airplanes (posible against russian navel forces like its submarines - who in the late 1970s and 1980s was beginning to be a challenge to the americans - because they got as close as their own submarines - and fast.. In some cases like with he Alpha, who was faster and able to dive longer than its american counterparts - and was seeing as a challenge for what the US had in its arsenal - because the sub was also sturdy - and was able to be hit without going to crash deep - it was made out of titan - and therefore extremely expensive to build so just a few units was made out of them - and sadly - it was also a submarine plagued by technical problems - and a rather loud nuclear reactor - who when under full power gave away the submarine - but when used properly was a danger to all western naval forces - and was something they was watching out for... The other submarine who came out in the 1970s - the Akula - was also as submarine the US learned to fear -as it was quiet as the US counterparts - and as deadly as them - but after the end of the cold war - most of the subs was retired - or put in bases where they was barley kept afloat - or in many cases just lying there to rot - as no one had the resources to get them off and salvaged - Norway together with many other nations was in the forefront of getting money to the programs - to salvage the subs and also to make the nuclear reactors less dangerous for the future - it was mostly because we was afraid of a possible nuclear reactor breach - who could do a lot of damage for a large area of Sweden Finland and Norway for eons to come... It was in our own int erst to make the russians safeguard their own nuclear waste from the submarines...

Today Russia still have a large part of its old nuclear submarines being salvaged and most of the oldest submarines is today scraped - and salvaged - but it is still a lot of submarines to be salvaged and I guess russia is able to do it them self with their own money - if they also is able to build new classes of submarines to replace the old ones - not one to one - the new submarines is to expensive to do that - but it is a smaller - but from a russian point of view better deterrent for the future than it was before... And still - they do have submarines who was build in the late 1980s - the beginning of the 1990s who is still operative -and will be operative for the foreseeable future after refit

It is always a cat and mouse game - sometimes in the air - sometimes in the sea - or under the water - today it was the US who was playing the cat and mouse game under sea - as they have been doing it for year and years - tomorrow it is the russians who play the game against the US ASW forces and then on monday - they are doing it again in reverse...

Diclotican

[BumRushDaShow]

18. Diclotican

I agree with your post and thank you for your explanation. This discussion reminded me about the disaster that happened with the Russian sub Kursk back in 2000. I think this forced them to reconfigure their fleet.

[Diclotican]

20. BumRushDaShow

BumRushDaShow

I do remember Kursk - it was a deep tragedy who 118 sailors lost their life - because of stubbornness about getting help from the West - Kursk was after all the "pride" of the Northern fleet - and one of its most modern ships - finished just before 1995 - and then refitted to service in the late 1990 - early 2000 - and then a catastrophic accident destroyed the ship and killed its sailors - and hunted the pride rather badly - I guess it was a few high ranking officers who ended on retirement after that accident - a good thing I would say in the old days they would have been killed....

And I guess -even if they was not telling anyone about it - they learned a lot from it - and how they should re-configure their fleet to lessen the damage in the future - I guess the new classes of Submarines the Russians are building today - have build in more things to lessen the impact of a disaster - mostly more modern weaponry - it is rumored that the Kursk had inboard "old-style" torpedoes - who was been retired from the navy a few years earlier -had been used on board the ship - and had exploded in one way or another chatatropic accident... And it was one of the first time - the widdows - shildren and grown ups - was able to express their anger directly to the leaders - and they got a verry hard message from many of the pepole who had lost a man - a father - a brother about their negligence in saving their lives - something that was unheard doing before then...


Diclotican

[BumRushDaShow]

21. Diclotican

Thank you for the history of that disaster. It was a very sad event - any type of submarine accident is sad.

I have really appreciated your posts on this subject!

[Diclotican]

22. BumRushDaShow

BumRushDaShow

Thank you - At lest it is how I remember it - I was kind of in a "personal crisis" in the early 2000s - so I kind of have two years I have at best just a fuzzy remembrance of, somewhat annoying to be honest - but I do remember the Kursk accident..

Diclotican

[Submariner]

11. It may have tracked a U.S. sub and got lured away

as another U.S. fast attack sub slips off to complete it's espionage mission in the Barents. BTDT.

[Diclotican]

14. Submariner

Submariner

It could be - after all - the US have being doing it for years - more than 50 years - making some doing a decoy for some of the job - and then slip true with another submarine and do its job whatever it might be... Maybe if the rumors is true - sometimes it might even got some "hull" pictures of ships of interest for the Intel community... Or at least some pictures of things of interest for the military intelligence...

If the submariners who have doing this for years and years at the time had been able to tell their story about what they really are doing around the world I am pretty sure we who have never been a part of it - would have been impressed by the submariners actions under the cold war - sometimes it was rather challenging I am pretty sure about - other times it was routine all the way also I guess...


Diclotican

[Blue_Tires]

23. That's news?

The U.S. Navy has been parking boats off Russia's coast for decades...

[WhoWoodaKnew]

24. Did they say anything about wanting to sell some beachfront properties...

in desert?

[Orsino]

25. In post-Soviet Russia, Red October hunt YOU. n/t