Violence breaks out near site of vigil for teen killed by police

[alp227]

Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Authorities said Sunday that a police officer shot an unarmed black teenager after the teen attacked the Ferguson officer. But pressure for a deeper explanation grew locally and nationally through the day.

Hundreds of people gathered at the shooting site Sunday night for a vigil for Michael Brown, the 18-year-old high school graduate who was to begin college classes Monday.

While some people prayed, others spilled onto West Florissant Avenue, choking off traffic. Police were wearing riot gear. Some demonstrators pounded on police cars.

The situation grew more tense as the night wore on. Looting was reported at a QuikTrip at 9420 West Florissant Avenue about 9 p.m., and a fire was reported.Firefighters were warned to set up their staging area away from the site.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/violence-breaks-out-near-site-of-vigil-for-teen-killed/article_f9d627dc-e3c8-5bde-b2ab-7f0a3d36a083.html

[bravenak]

1. Gotta stop bad cops.

I was in L.A. During the riots. The pressure had built up over the years since the last riot. Will keep happening until cops start arresting cops.

[Skip Intro]

2. How does looting do that? n/t

[bravenak]

7. Nothing works.

So, they loot. I fully expect people to start doing worse than looting and just becoming vigilantes and killing the offenders if they cannot get justice from the state. It's not fair, but neither is life.

[Skip Intro]

8. The looting is justified, then? n/t

[bravenak]

9. You are not a good fisher.

So the shooting was justified then? You think it's okay to shoot unarmed teenagers multiple times if you're a cop and they're 'other'?

[Skip Intro]

10. No answer, eh? n/t

[bravenak]

11. Do you have one?

What will solve the problem of rogue cops shooting unarmed civilians?

[Skip Intro]

13. No answer then, eh?

Is the looting justifiable?

Simple question - why can't you answer it?

[AgingAmerican]

14. Looters are opportunists

And as such don't give a rats ass about anything but their personal agenda, which is self enrichment. Looting is never justifiable. MLK Jr had it right. Two wrongs never make a right.

[Skip Intro]

16. Indeed. Hard for some to say, evidently.

You are of course, as was MLK, correct.

[imthevicar]

24. How many of the looters

were part of Co-Intel Pros to discredit a legitimate protest? Worked very well here.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

25. I suspect people who would use an incident of looting

to dismiss the protest and side with the cops over the victim never cared about the victim anyway. They just want a reason to justify their position and the crimes of opportunists that have nothing to do with what happend is the most convenient one.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

26. I suspect people who would use an incident of looting

to dismiss the protest and side with the cops over the victim never cared about the victim anyway. They just want a reason to justify their position and the crimes of opportunists is the most convenient one.

Someone who would take advantage of a protest to rob a business is just as much a piece of shit as the cops who abuse their power

[Bonx]

33. Seriously ?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

60. I'd say none who actually looted.

If there were cointel around, they would have been suggesting looting to others, as a form of entrapment, not actually committing the crime themselves.

[imthevicar]

63. Like I said,

Worked well here!

[bravenak]

15. Is it?

What do you think? Was the shooting justified?

[LanternWaste]

27. Seems to me that focusing on one symptom rather than the cause itself is disingenuous at best...

Seems to me that focusing on one symptom rather than the cause itself is disingenuous at best...

Nor did I see anyone imply the looting was justified... merely some dogmatic individuals inferring as such (to better validate a bias?)

[freshwest]

30. Is this a 'who's the boss' answer? You won't answer her questions. Repeating yours won't work.

She is going back to the root of the problem, you are going after the symptom. If her query was answered, you'd find common ground.

BTW, it's not a 'simple question,' and it's a very loaded one that goes to the character of another poster, especially when she was describing a process, not promoting.

Please excuse me for jumping in, but it's pretty obvious your tactic isn't going to work. It is akin to dismissing and then bullying.

If it was me, and I really wanted an answer to my question, I might answer hers first. I would not try to stem the tide swirling around my feet by shouting that it stop and do as I say.

Your question contains meanings that do not apply to her statement, and assigns bad motives to her. No one supports looting, so you are not going to win with this particular moral test.

Just sayin'

[Tsiyu]

39. [phone]

n/t

[Skip Intro]

51. Not at all.

I asked her first, for one thing. And the topic is looting, for another.

OP is about looting and various lawless acts in that community. She replied gotta stop bad cops. I asked how looting did that. Her reply didn't answer that question and seemed to justify the looting, so I asked her directly if she was saying the looting was justified. And she deflected, tried to change the subject, and refused repeatedly to answer that simple question.

No "tactic," from me - I'm just trying to understand if she was saying the looting was justified. It was a simple question directly related to the OP and her post. No hidden meanings. No bullying. Didn't come from out of the blue, wasn't some grand scheme, just a simple question of clarification of her post that seemed to justify looting. I'm amazed at the sheer effort she put into evasive non-answers, rather than just saying yes or no.

Her question to me is clearly an effort to deflect from my question to her and her non-answers. I mean, it's right there up-thread. However, if she answers my question, I'll be happy to answer hers, even though it is little more than an effort to divert and sidetrack the conversation.

[freshwest]

53. I think she's only thinking of the guy who is dead. That's her issue. As to your claim:

Btw, you should see the nasty name-calling emails she's been sending me over this sub-thread, as if I'm done something horrible by asking a simple question.

That's a charge that could result in banning. It's up to you to edit your post if you want to rethink your wording.

I can't see why anyone would send a nasty mail. Anytime I think someone is going to be abusive, I block mail from them. I do not argue or get personal with other posters. That's not my reason for being here.

And you could still give a little on this issue and answer her question. This is not a light matter for her, as a POC who's seen some very negative things.

[Skip Intro]

54. ?!

Why would that line lead to banning? It is the truth. I have proof.

Am I really the bad guy here, for asking a simple question of clarification?

I'm sorry anyone gets shot, and it is understandable people get upset over it, but the thread is about resultant looting and crime, and questions on how the looting is justified or punishes cops have been asked by many in this thread, not just me.

[freshwest]

55. I'm just saying you are coming at this the wrong way to get what you want. EOM.

[bravenak]

56. My answer was in post one.

Cops need to start arresting cops. Putting them on paid leave after shooting a kid 8 times breeds hostility. Treat him like you would treat anyone else who just shot an unarmed kid and there will be no reason to riot. And cops would be more careful of shooting people if there were repercussions other than a paid vacation.

[freshwest]

58. Sounds logical to me. And folks need to see the big picture on all of this. Blinders won't work.

[bravenak]

59. We need to pay attention to what the 'authorities' are up to.

Anybody still wearing blinders, just wants to be blind.

[onecent]

50. Why can't you????

[bemildred]

18. At least as justified as this shooting.

And it is worth noticing that it is the unjustified shooting which lead to the looting opportunity.

[alp227]

29. Who's justifying the looting, as opposed to analyzing it? nt

[Abouttime]

47. Reparations

It's instances such as this that show the time has come to make amends for all POC. Wealth redristribution and reparations are long overdue for these people and their communities.

[bravenak]

48. I agree.

And stop profiling people before they give up trying to work WITHIN the system.

[Jester Messiah]

19. Generally it doesn't, but hypothetically...

It could serve as a tactic to lure the police in for ambush. Alternatively, if they don't take the bait, it highlights that they are unable or unwilling to perform their duty.

[L0oniX]

20. An innocent person gets killed by cops and you care about looting? wow

[warrant46]

34. Pressure of What ?

So some friend gets killed by the Cops ---so I go to a Korean Store, beat up the Owner, steal his merchandise and then burn his store down. And that punishes the cops the mayor or what ?

[bravenak]

37. Pressure of a whole bunch of shit.

Read some history.

[warrant46]

38. Yawn

[bravenak]

40. Then buzz off.

[Sissyk]

44. You got two mehs and a seriously.

I was one of the mehs.

On Mon Aug 11, 2014, 02:02 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Then buzz off.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=867854

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Telling fellow DU members to "Buzz Off" for no good reason is over the top and rude.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Aug 11, 2014, 02:07 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: C'mon, seriously?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh! I've seen much worse.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Buzz off

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[bravenak]

45. Surprised that was even alerted!

Wow. Must be time to take a break.

[ripcord]

3. How is looting local businesses punishing the police?

[joshcryer]

17. It shows that their job to keep the peace is a facade.

They don't actually exist to keep the peace, they exist to give that illusion that they are keeping the peace. It still requires a civilized society to maintain that peace and order.

In other words, the police did some shit to the community and no one cares, so why not do some shit back to the community and maybe some will care.

[warrant46]

35. Good thing there are some strict gun laws

Otherwise the residents might shoot at the police

[blkmusclmachine]

4. SYG?

[conservaphobe]

5. Punish them.

A paid vacation should do it.

[jonjensen]

6. how you solve this problem.

Anyone sitting on a jury should find any african american on trial not guilty. You have a constitutional right to jury nullification. Until the shooting of young black men stops! The white power structure will be under pressure from the white communities fear to make the police behave themselves. White los angeles did not like black men wearing tee shirts reading the more reginald dennys you have the less rodney kings you will have. 1965 watts riots time magazine "god gave noah a sign no more rain. the fire next time!"

[Shandris]

12. "more reginald dennys you have the less rodney kings you will have."

Wait...what? You don't seriously believe that do you?

[840high]

21. How did looting help?

[seveneyes]

22. It helped by emptying the store before they burned it down

[Iamthetruth]

28. And when these businesses decide not to rebuild

What happens to those communities when all that there is are burned out or vacant buildings. Can you blame the retailers?

[christx30]

62. People will still blame the former

shop owners for creating food deserts.

[Syntheto]

23. I live here and I'm White

... All this happened about two miles east of my house. The worst part of the violence was the shops and businesses that were looted and torched were Black and Asian owned. Employees were in the QT that got burned down, as well as the Wal-Mart and Sam's. They could have been hurt or killed, and we're talking about people of all racial and ethnic backgrounds.

This unjustfiable violence had absolutely nothing to do with the death of Mike Brown, but now overshadows that sad fact.

Unfortunately, the usual suspects are doing their best to throw gasoline on the fire. I mean, after all, we have a 24 hour news cycle and there isn't much else so tittilating going on in the world.

[freshwest]

31. Thanks for supplying those details, they're important.

[warrant46]

32. Also the looters got the ATM machine out before the fire

And "Liberated" its contents

[freshwest]

41. America has unfortunately been running several alternative societies for centuries. Please comment:

Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe.

~ Frederick Douglass

I think this quote applies to all who feel they're in that state of any type, racial, political, ethnic, whatver.

Note that he mentions 'ignorance,' 'society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them' and 'neither persons nor property will be safe.'

That means lashing out at a lot of things. Even if they hurt those of their own group, they'll react. I'm not saying looters have a philosophy, as it demands distance and time for reflection. But the feeling. and violence is from feeling, not from thinking, of which they may not have the luxury of at the time, isn't dampened by reason.

As far as the ideology that you mention about 'liberating' money from ATMs, I doubt that was the thought process being used, except as a justification. This event was triggered by the death of a POC, and some, in a loose handed logic may justify the looting as revenge. That being said, what is the greater crime, theft of a human life instead of property that some are seen to be ignoring?

And many non-POC hate 'banksters' so much they'd excuse those who would break into an ATM as 'sticking it to the man.' They may not say so but it's the same sloppy thinking and general acceptance of violence to me.

If an ideology is being employed, it may come from what Douglass said. If a person truly feels that way, they are living in a mental war zone and that gives no quarter to others. The limits of what they'll do to be heard will not be pleasant.

I hate to say it, but the guillotine of the French Revolution is an example. That's simply history. When things reach a tipping point, anything goes. Some have suggested that if the GOP impeaches Obama or even tries to do so there would riots. I don't think so.

This is a local event that should be investigated ot the satisfaction of all persons. You cannot ignore the history of this nation and single out one event as neutral, to the minds of some. One side will call it murder, another will call it self-defense by the officer. Others will work toward solutions at the ballot box or in their communities to see it doesn't happen again.

But we can't take back the memory of slavery, Jim Crow or the words of shameless media bigots that cause so much pain and distrust. Democrats are still fighting back against unjust laws that prevent the voice of minorities being peacefully heard at the ballot box.

It is for the good of all that they get to have their say in their local affairs to stop this kind of death and violence from happening again.

[warrant46]

42. Hmmm your quote

"This is a local event that should be investigated ot the satisfaction of all persons. "

I'm sure if I was the store owner I would have plenty of vibrant and diverse input into the investigation.

[freshwest]

52. Definitely, very important, but it pales next to a death. Fortunately no one died in the fire!

[warrant46]

64. I wonder how many cut themselves running on the broken glass?

[Syntheto]

36. The QT...

... was liking the neighborhood general store, too. So many people had their routine of stopping by, getting some gas, coffee, and a lottery ticket or cigarettes, whatever. Now, I doubt if QT corporate is going to rebuild there, and who can blame them? I'm just glad nobody else got hurt and that the gasoline reservoirs didn't catch on fire and blow up. I see people from Ferguson of all colors just shaking their heads and bumming out. The media driven circus and the resulting desire of some of these kids to be a star on social media is going to cause more problems and nobody thinks it's over yet. The death of Mike Brown is forgotten and some people who should know better are making it much worse by justifying the looting and violence and thus encouraging it.

[freshwest]

43. Very true, all of that. Violence doesn't lead to good endings, nor does it build community.

[Blue_Tires]

46. Sadly, large crowds *always* draw the "break/burn/loot stuff" idiots...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

61. Yup.

Around my way, you see arson and riots in the news after teams win college sporting events, which makes no sense to me. Surely if you were going to riot and set fire to things over a sports event, you'd do it over a crushing loss, not a giant win, no?

[kath]

49. Fucking fucking fucking PIGS.

Police brutality is WAY out of control in this country.
They should be punished even more severely than the general public when they commit crimes, because they violate the public trust ( what little is left of it)

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

57. On TV I heard Michael Brown's sister saying she caught the incident on her cell phone camera

She was describing what the video shows, move by move. Has anyone heard this? Is the video out there on the web?