Halting ISIS Would Require Attacks in Syria, Top General Says

[Purveyor]

Source: New York Times

By MICHAEL R. GORDON and HELENE COOPERAUG. 21, 2014

WASHINGTON — Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Thursday afternoon that it would not be possible to defeat the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria without attacking its fighters in Syria.

General Dempsey, speaking at a news conference with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, did not commit the United States to carrying out airstrikes in Syria, and the Obama administration’s broader strategy for defeating the Sunni militant group remained unclear.

Earlier in the day, the Pentagon announced that American warplanes had conducted six more strikes on ISIS targets in the vicinity of the Mosul Dam in Iraq, destroying three Humvees, another vehicle and several improvised explosive device emplacements. The ISIS fighters are a highly mobile force that may number as many as 17,000 men and can move across the Iraq-Syria border with impunity, according to American military and civilian officials.
Continue reading the main story
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The latest attacks brought to 90 the number of airstrikes conducted by the fighter jets, drones and bombers that the United States has unleashed on the Sunni militants since President Obama authorized the strikes as part of the battle against ISIS. There have been 20 attacks since the militants beheaded an American journalist and threatened to behead others if the United States did not stop the airstrikes.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/22/world/middleeast/isis-believed-to-have-as-many-as-17000-fighters.html

[cloudbase]

1. I'm curious as to his definition of defeat. n/t

[7962]

2. He's right; thats where they have the armor they took from the Iraqis

Its also where most of their fighters are.
I doubt Assad would mind

[PSPS]

3. Then let Assad do it.

[pampango]

4. Assad has finally started to do just that: Syria jets hit Islamic State targets in Raqqa

Regime planes bombard Islamic State positions as fighters close in on Tabqa air base in northern Raqqa province.

Activists say Syrian jets have bombarded positions of the Islamic State group in the northern province of Raqqa as the self-declared jihadists close in on the last army base in the region.

Government forces have previously held off from targeting the Islamic State group, formerly known as ISIL - a strategy that has aided the group's battle against other rebels such as the Islamic Front coalition, the Free Syrian Army and al-Qaeda's affiliate in the Syrian war, the Nusra Front.

Syria's president, Bashar al-Assad, has long painted the uprising in Syria as a foreign-backed conspiracy and his enemies say he has allowed the Islamic State to grow to promote that idea.

The attacks come after the Islamic State group on Thursday captured the headquarters of Syria's 17th Division, based in the Raqqa area. It posted a video online of its operation.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/syria-islamic-state-raqqa-201481812135189335.html

[7962]

20. I guess it would be better to let them kill each other and save OUR money

[philosslayer]

5. Weren't these the rebels we were supposed to be supporting?

I'm losing track pretty quickly.

[gordianot]

9. Definitly some that McCain visited and shared photographs with in Syria.

[Renew Deal]

10. I think McCain was photographed some of them.

I just want to know of Assad is our new ally.

[JoePhilly]

18. McCain lost track quickly too.

[lexx21]

32. See this is what happens when we arm our "friends".....

it all goes to pot and that is why we can't have nice things......

[louis-t]

6. This is going to take response from the entire region.

I realize the bush people are responsible for emergence of ISIS, but we cannot get rid of these idiots without support and skin in the game from neighboring countries who are threatened.

[DLnyc]

16. I agree, but it appears unlikely to happen, I think.

Specifically, defeating, or at least radically disarming, ISIS would require, as I see it,
1. Cooperation with Russia, Iran and Syria, in particular, since they each have both strong reasons and a good ability to help in the fight
and
2. Defiance of Israel and Saudi Arabia, both of whom appear to have been covertly either supporting ISIS or at least creatively failing to notice them, since ISIS serves as "an enemy of my enemy" for both.

While technically doable, as a practical matter I think our political environment makes each of these pretty much impossible.

Sadly.

[louis-t]

19. You really think Israel isn't petrified of ISIS?

Supporting them? Really? Can you imagine what would happen if ISIS gains a foothold in the region? I think you are way off on this. Iran and Syria will help with this because they are threatened, too. Iran is Shia. Saudi Arabia is Sunni, but they would be targeted by ISIS as being 'not radical enough'.

[CJCRANE]

21. Netanyahu said to leave ISIS and let the muslims fight among themselves.

He didn't seem too concerned about it. Maybe he'll change his tune soon.

[louis-t]

29. That all depends on who wins.

Bibi thinks it's a win-win for him, but if ISIS succeeds, he better be concerned.

[Dems to Win]

7. Guardian: Former top general calls on Obama to wipe out Isis in wake of Foley killing

John Allen, who commanded Afghanistan war, writes op-ed amid varying US views on how to respond to journalist’s beheading

An influential retired US general has called on Barack Obama to order the destruction the militant group responsible for murdering American journalist James Foley amid conflicting views in the administration on how to respond to the atrocity.

As Obama’s foreign policy team debates expanding its renewed air war in Iraq after the killing of Foley by the Islamic State (Isis), John Allen, a retired marine general who commanded the Afghanistan war from 2011 to 2013, urged Obama to “move quickly to pressure its entire ‘nervous system’, break it up, and destroy its pieces.”

Allen’s argument, presented in an op-ed for the DefenseOne website, echoes remarks by secretary of state John Kerry and comes amid internal dispute in the Obama administration over the future course of its two-week air war in Iraq. Much diplomatic effort is said to be spent broadening and hardening a region-wide effort against Isis, something Allen endorsed, with Turkey and Qatar being a particular near-term focus for Kerry.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/general-john-allen-obama-isis-james-foley-killing
**************************

This would be an hilarious farce if it weren't all so serious.

Eliminate ISIS, just like the US military has eliminated the Taliban?

Oh, wait.....

13 years of US military in Afghanistan, and the Taliban still exist and will likely control the country once America leaves.

If ISIS is not the real Islam, then those who do practice the real Islam need to take them out. Saudi Arabia has an air force, Turkey has an air force, Iraq has an air force. If ISIS is a threat to the region, let the countries in the region bomb them to smithereens.

US should collect up all Americans in the embassies and drone bases, and come home from Iraq.

(also posted in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014876595)

[FrodosPet]

27. Israeli PM Netanyahu seems to agrees with you!

http://rehmat1.com/2014/06/30/netanyahu-isis-is-good-for-israel/

Netanyahu: ‘ISIS is good for Israel’
Posted on June 30, 2014 | Leave a comment

Last Sunday, Netanyahu in his first comment on ISIS victory in Iraq, said that Washington should stay out of the Iraqi conflict – and let the Sunni militants defeat the Shia-dominated government of prime minister al-Maliki and break-up Iraq. “This will weaken Iranian influence in the Arab region,” said Netanyahu during his address at Tel Aviv University’s INSS think-tank.

~ snip ~

[Journeyman]

8. The careful observer will see that "terror" has become a Hydra of our making . . .

a multi-headed monster that grows two new appendages for each head cut off.

Where will our pursuit of the beast take us next? And at what cost? . . .

[Purveyor]

11. Indeed and the first head cut off was Saddam Hussein. eom

[Journeyman]

14. Actually, the first attempt was the Taliban in Afghanistan . . .

in what seems a singularly unsuccessful effort so far, merely spreading the organization into neighboring Pakistan and other environs.

[Purveyor]

26. The job could have been done in Afghanistan but bush/cheney were to anxious

to invade Iraq.

[HooptieWagon]

13. He's right. It would take boots on the ground.

And be another 10 year quagmire with no end game.
I'm sure Assad wouldn't object... or Putin.
At this point, the most reliable ally to help fight ISIS is the Kurds. Even there, we have to be cautious b/c too many arms to the Kurds will piss off NATO member Turkey, whose airbase we use. It's going to take a hell of a lot of diplomacy and tact to deal with the problem.

[Nihil]

28. Well, that's the US and Russia out of the game then ...

> It's going to take a hell of a lot of diplomacy and tact to deal with the problem.

"Diplomacy and tact" doesn't produce profits for arms manufacturers & dealers
so don't expect to see any more of it over the coming years than we've seen for
the last couple of decades ...

[roamer65]

15. It's going to be a regional war at the least.

[CJCRANE]

22. It should keep them all busy for a few years

unless the Sunni tribes wake up and find a way to kick ISIS out.

But then they'll be a problem for their home countries.

[L0oniX]

17. I don't recall Martin E. Dempsey running for office.

[ozone_man]

23. Time to apologize to Assad?

From Democracy Now interview:

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Patrick Cockburn, before we conclude, I want to ask you about the role of Saudi Arabia in the rise of these Sunni militant movements. You’ve suggested that it’s not only because of financing, private financing principally from Saudi Arabia, that these groups have become as strong as they have, but also because of the ideology of Wahhabism that originates in Saudi Arabia. Could you explain what that is and how it spread?

PATRICK COCKBURN: Well, the Wahhabi ideology is very—has always been very similar to that of al-Qaeda. It’s a puritanical Islamic ideology, very bigoted. They’ve been blowing up shrines in Mosul. But the Saudi government has also been responsible for shrines being removed. In Bahrain in 2011, when a Saudi force entered to support the Bahraini government against a protest by the majority Shia community, they destroyed 20 to 30 Shia shrines and mosques. They bulldozed them. So, I think Wahhabism and the ideology of al-Qaeda and the ideology of ISIS today is very similar—Shia are regarded as heretics, so are Christians—that there isn’t that much difference. And this has had enormous impact, because it’s backed by Saudi Arabia’s enormous wealth. You know, if somebody wants to build a mosque in Bangladesh where it’s going to cost $30,000, where would he get $30,000? Normally it comes from Saudi Arabia or the Gulf. So I think one of the most important things that’s happening in the world over the last 50 years is the way in which mainstream Sunni Islam, which is the religion of about one-and-a-half billion people in the world, has been increasingly colored and taken over by the very intolerant Wahhabi faith.

AMY GOODMAN: And yet, the U.S. government’s, you know, fierce opposition to Iran and close cozying up to Saudi Arabia, whether it’s President Obama, Clinton, the Bushes, of course, well known for that?

PATRICK COCKBURN: Yeah, I mean, this is—you know, after 9/11, all the links of the hijackers—15 out of the 19 hijackers were Saudi. Bin Laden was part of the Saudi elite. U.S. investigations all showed that money had come from private donors in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf. But they always ignored this. And I think it’s one of the reasons that al-Qaeda survived, and its ideology, its ideas and so forth have now been transmuted into ISIS. You know, it is extraordinary that you had this war of terror, and hundreds of billions of dollars, trillions of dollars spent on it by the U.S. and other governments, and 13 years later that there’s an al-Qaeda-type organization, worse in many ways than al-Qaeda, more violent than al-Qaeda, which has taken over a great chunk of the Middle East. I mean, this is a tremendous failure, and very little attention is being given to it.

[link:http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/13/the_rise_of_isis_us_invasion|

[candelista]

25. Yes. The first thing the Saud family did when they got into power in Arabia

...was to destroy the physical infrastructure, tombs, mausoleums, mosques and sites associated with the family and companions of Mohammed.

[daleo]

24. It took going into Cambodia to beat the VC

Oh, wait...never mind.

[kelliekat44]

30. And guess what? That would not halt ISIS. It would only get more civilians killed and more

Americans. War is not the answer! War is a racket!!! Occupation and blockades are not the answer, they are slow genocide and creeping imperialism. Otherwise they would have worked a long time ago.

[Ash_F]

31. You mean helping the government the US was trying to overthrow, not last year? /nt