Rebels Parade Captured Ukrainian Soldiers On Streets Of Donetsk As Citizens Shout & Hurl Eggs

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

Associated Press Aug. 24, 2014 | 2:52 p.m. EDT

PETER LEONARD and LAURA MILLS, Associated Press

DONETSK, Ukraine (AP) — To shouts of "Fascists!" and "Hang them from a tree!" captured Ukrainian soldiers were paraded through the streets of the rebel stronghold of Donetsk on Sunday as bystanders pelted them with eggs, water bottles and tomatoes.

The spectacle of the bruised and filthy soldiers being marched hands bound and surrounded by gun-toting pro-Russian insurgents came as Ukrainians in Kiev celebrated their country's independence from the Soviet Union — a stark display of the growing divisions between east and west.

While support and mobilization for Kiev's campaign against the separatists has grown in many parts of the country, resentments fester in much of the east, where civilian casualties and shelling have become a part of daily life.

Illustrating the divisions, an ostentatious procession of tanks and weaponry rumbled through downtown Kiev to mark Ukraine's 23rd anniversary of independence from Moscow — a highly publicized event accompanied by speeches and a vow by President Petro Poroshenko to boost defense spending to defeat the rebels.

Read more: http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2014/08/24/ukraine-plans-3-billion-boost-to-defense-spending

[TwilightGardener]

1. That's Russians for ya.

[another_liberal]

2. This is what Americans do to prisoners . . .

I'd rather be captive of the Donetsk separatists any day:

(warning, these are graphic photos of prisoner abuse)

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=8560

[tabasco]

9. It's all ya' got and it's getting stale

The U.S. punished soldiers involved in that incident.

Provide proof that the Ukraine rebels are doing so.

[Cha]

11. "getting stale"? Way past the expiration date. Thanks for stating the US soldiers were punished..

[another_liberal]

16. You think that covers it, hmmm?

Those photos and the culture of official sadism they suggest are a black mark this country will never be able to remove.

[Igel]

24. And Russia has said it sees nothing "humiliating" in how the men were treated.

That said, perhaps the citizens of Moscow should honor Putin in precisely the same way.

After all, it's not humiliating.

And so Putin has now decreed what you're wrong: What you think of as a "black mark" Putin endorses. Or perhaps you think this is a black mark that the Russians of the Donbas and of Russia will never be able to remove? Nah, why would you? Not part of the marching orders and fundamentals of belief of the ruscist church.

Fortunately the DNR has no reason to abide by Geneva Conventions. They're not signatories. So somebody else will have to find them and send them to the Hague.

Won't be Putin. The One has said that Russia's in far too many international organizations. It's interfering with Russia's "elbow room" and Lesbensraum.

[another_liberal]

26. Where did you see those remarks reported?

I have not yet read that he said any of that. Do you have a link to where you did?

[TwilightGardener]

12. There are demented/sick people in every country, and it really comes out in wartime.

But I don't think we built a public celebration around Abu Ghraib. Most Americans rightfully found it appalling, once it was publicized.

[another_liberal]

17. Yet we give aid to people who are using artillery barrages to maim children and old women?

Why aren't more Americans "appalled" by that? Is it because our own media's propaganda has already dehumanized the ethnic Russian population of Donetsk and Lugansk?

In my opinion, that is exactly what has happened, and our media stressing this disgraceful "Parade" of prisoners, while conveniently ignoring the death, injury and destruction being caused by Ukraine's "anti-terror operation," represents another excellent example of that process in action.

[Igel]

25. Yes, sadly, we cooperate with them.

Why, we built a space station with them. Even after they killed 100s of thousands in Chechen.

We're pikers and must truly honor the greatness that is Russia. (Rather like Cardassians, if you're a Trekker.)

[ballyhoo]

22. Where are the eggs? I see only a march of

prisoners.

[another_liberal]

27. Poroshenko is the one who should be egged . . .

He and all of our other murdering stooges now running Kiev should have to stand in the public stocks!

[ballyhoo]

31. Yes. I agree. Petro the Western Stooge.. Come

see me ethnic cleanse.

[leftynyc]

29. Your love affair and defense for all things Russian

is becoming tedious. That you would defend this while (no doubt) bitch about the American military pulling the same stunt makes you nothing but a hypocrite.

[another_liberal]

44. You are reading my posts rather selectively . . .

I do not applaud, nor even condone for that matter, what was done to those Ukrainian prisoners. It was distasteful and, frankly, stupid. The desire to raise a besieged civilian population's morale through such a show is no excuse for violating those prisoners' human rights. More practically, why give the already thoroughly biased Western media something like that to run with?

On the other hand, as an American I feel constrained to forego criticism of all but the very worst violations of prisoners' rights. We have no moral standing to lecture anyone on that subject. Right?

[leftynyc]

49. Wrong

I'm perfectly capable of criticizing both.

[Adrahil]

37. FFS....

NO ONE here supports that.

That doesn't excuse the behavior of these rebels.

Cut out the hair shirt politics. It's bullshit.

[another_liberal]

43. What?

"No one here" supports what exactly?

You'll have to give me a little more than that to go on.

If you do mean "No one here supports" the kind of torture our country is guilty of having practiced in Abu Ghraib, then surely they must also realize that very guilt makes us the last country with any moral standing to criticize other people for how they mistreat prisoners?

Or has the very concept of what hypocrisy means been forgotten by some?

[LanternWaste]

39. Creative allegation...

"I'd rather be captive of the Donetsk separatists any day..."

Creative allegation... which seems (along with prophecies) to be your main points of argument. Pull quotes from the state-run Russian Times, and petulantly call sources which invalidate the RT reporting, "propaganda., holding others to a higher standard than you hold yourself to.

Creative allegations, indeed.

[another_liberal]

42. Did you look at the pictures of Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse I posted?

I will definitely take having a few insults and an egg or two thrown at me over that kind of long term, institutionalized abuse. Yes, most certainly. Are you suggesting you would rather be a prisoner in Abu Ghraib?

(warning, these are graphic photos of prisoner abuse)

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=8560

[Cha]

4. And, you get the usual from the the RT guy trying to change the subject off the freaking Russians

who are doing this in Donetsk. Russia-good/USA-bad.

[another_liberal]

5. I can't help it . . .

I simply hate hypocrisy, no matter who it comes from. I also hate the wholesale murder of human beings, as well as war and all the grief, loss and destruction it brings.

I've felt that way a long time. It's doubtful I'll change.

[pampango]

8. Do you equally hate the hypocrisy of Russians' anguish over Donetsk after

what they did to the people of Grozny and the rest of Chechnya and the civilian slaughter that Russia supports in Syria today.

As long as you hate hypocrisy from all sides I join you.

[another_liberal]

13. What was done to Grozny was horrible . . .

Just as was what we did to Fallujah and at least a dozen other Iraqi cities.

None of that, however, makes what Ukraine is doing now to Donetsk any less odious and criminal. Just how many of the civilians, how many of the women and children in Donetsk do you imagine participated in the destruction of Gronzy anyhow?

[pampango]

18. You are right. What was done to Grozny does not excuse what is done to Donetsk. All who bomb,

shell or shoot civilians (and their planes), whether it is in Donetsk or Kiev, Fallujah or Homs or Gaza or Grozny, and excuses is as a legitimate war tactic is a war criminal.

I excuse no one on any side. And I would prefer that the war criminals and their hypocritical governments guilty of Fallujah and Grozny refrain from expressions of sudden concern for civilians caught in battles when they showed so little concern when it was their armies doing the killing. I understand that there are political and diplomatic reasons for this sudden concern but that makes it no less nauseating.

[tabasco]

10. How is condemning war crimes hypocrisy?

Should everybody just shut the fuck up about it?

What's your point, if you have one?

[another_liberal]

14. It is when one operated horror shows like our Gitmo . . .

And Abu Ghraib prisons:

(warning, these are graphic photos of prisoner abuse)

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=8560

[VanGoghRocks]

32. As if Americans (Guantanamo, anyone?) have any room to talk.

[Skittles]

3. disgusting

[another_liberal]

7. Hardly surprising, after what Kiev forces have done to the people of Donetsk.

The Ukrainian army has been shelling residential areas of the city night and day for six weeks, can anyone here even comprehend how angry that would make a person feel toward his tormentors?

I seriously doubt it's possible.

[VanGoghRocks]

33. Those Ukrainian captives are lucky that's all they've been subject to. Civil wars can

be pretty brutish -- no Marquess of Queensbury rules necessarily govern them.

[another_liberal]

38. True, those people are genuinely angry . . .

The video I've seen suggests physical assault by the onlookers was a real danger in this case. As I've said before, that is one really good reason to not stage this kind of spectacle. The Separatists can't want that kind of a reputation?

[VanGoghRocks]

40. One problem with civil wars (as opposed to wars between nation-states) is

that there is no generally-agreed-upon set of rules by which to proceed.

If the residents of Donetsk are angry, one is entitled to ask why they feel such anger. Perhaps it has to do with the putschistas outlawing the Russian language on the DAY AFTER their putsch succeeded in TOPPLING A DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED GOVERNMENT? Or perhaps residents are angry that the Banderite fasicsts and neo-Nazis are using artillery to shell residential neighborhoods? Or maybe it's that the Rada outlawed the Ukrainian Communist Party after it received 13% in the last pre-putsch free-and-fair elections when the fascists got only 10%, barely enough to qualify for seats in the Rada?

I though it was funny in a grimly comic sort of way that mechanized street cleaners trailed the procession, since that mirrored what the Soviets did with real Nazis they had captured back in the 2nd World War.

[another_liberal]

41. Just as the Self-defense forces of the Separatists had initially lost ground to Kiev . . .

Only to begin recovering territory now, just as everyone had written them off. That is also reminiscent of the Soviet Union's struggles in what Russians like to call, "The Great Patriotic War."

[Tommy_Carcetti]

46. You are aware that the Russian language was never actually "outlawed" in Ukraine, right?

Also that what happened in February did not fall under the definition of a "putsch", "coup" or any other of the loaded terms you so frivolously throw out?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

47. I hate to break it to you, but the separatists already have a pretty shitty reputation.

True, most of the world didn't really take note until they recklessly shot down a civilian airliner, but between the kidnappings, murders, summary executions and now this foolishness, the separatists have long come off as a gang of brutes.

[another_liberal]

48. It's a lot more likely we will eventually discover . . .

Kiev's forces are the ones who shot down that airliner, certainly the suggested "proof" that anyone else did is quite unconvincing.

When one considers how many innocents the Ukrainian army has killed and maimed (let alone the atrocities committed by Kiev's fascists in Odessa and elsewhere) it is hard to understand why so many in this country are obsessed with rumored and unproven accusations against the Separatists. There is certain proof Ukraine's State-sponsored military has indiscriminately murdered thousands, as opposed to a series of questionable claims regarding possible acts done by the Separatists.

BTW: Don't bother to show me pictures of that dozen or so bodies found in a common grave somewhere. We have only Kiev's word that their own fascist militias didn't actually kill and bury those poor people themselves. They are, after all, the ones who like to burn people alive and such things.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

50. Keep spinning. These separatists are not good dudes at all.

Given that up to the shoot down of MH17, the separatists were bragging left and right about shooting down Ukrainian aircraft. And there were Ukrainian military airplanes that were flying and that had been shot down. But the separatists had no airplanes of their own, so why would the Ukrainian military be shooting at planes? And the whole theory that the Ukrainian military shot down MH17 because they somehow thought it was Putin's plane has to be the most implausible, ridiculous bunk imaginable.

You look at documented stories of the things that the separatists have done. They've kidnapped scores of people, including journalists--Simon Ostrovsky was kidnapped, beaten, and thrown into a dungeon for several days, and his is a mild case. You've seen what they've done to OSCE observers. Pro-Ukrainian politician Volodymyr Rybak was taken and found several days later dead in a river, his body disemboweled. You had Igor Girkin ordering executions under the authority of Soviet (!) law for petty offenses.

Now mind you, the Ukrainian military hasn't necessarily been angels throughout the conflict, either, but the most egregious abuses clearly come from the separatists who thrive off the chaotic situation:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/un-human-rights-report-cites-murder-kidnap-and-torture-in-ukraine/505949.html

"Armed groups continue to commit killings, abductions, physical and psychological torture, ill treatment, executions, murder and other serious human rights abuses," the report said, adding that violations were "disproportionately targeting civilians."

At least 468 people are believed to be held captive by rebels, according to the report, which covers the period from July 16 to Aug. 17.

The only ones out there who are viewing the separatists in a positive light appear to be Russian state media, Catherina the Wonder Twit, and the separatists themselves.

[ColesCountyDem]

15. What lovely friends you have, Comrade Major Putin. n/t

[PatrynXX]

19. nothing like a group of Nazi's saying Fascists to the soldiers

Brain dead..

[pampango]

20. Human Rights Watch: "This parade ... may be considered a war crime."

Human Rights Watch said parading the Ukrainian soldiers was a violation of humanitarian law.

Rachel Denber of the New York-based rights group cited an article of the Geneva Conventions that prohibits “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment” of captives of armed conflicts.

This parade is a clear violation of that absolute prohibition, and may be considered a war crime, she said.

Two water trucks followed the captives, hosing down the road in a move apparently meant to cleanse the pavement where the Ukrainian soldiers had passed. The image had historical parallels as well: In 1944, Red Army soldiers paraded tens of thousands of German prisoners of war through the streets of Moscow.

http://icito.com/2014/08/24/donetsk-war-crime-pro-russian-rebels-parade-captured-ukrainian-soldiers/

[reorg]

23. Really. I thought this was an anti-terrorist operation

not a war.

But HRW are correct. Hosing down the street after them, with no less than three water trucks, is definitely a major human rights violation given that it was meant to humiliate these prisoners of war who had shelled the city for weeks previously.

[another_liberal]

28. If the separatists had lost control of their prisoners to the crowd . . .

People who have lived under Ukrainian artillery barrages for weeks on end might have made rather short work of their former tormentors. Such public displays of POWs are stupid for that reason alone, leaving human rights concerns aside.

[JVS]

30. Whereas the Ukrainian military shelling and bombing these cities is okey dokey?

[pampango]

36. Per HRW, that shelling is a violation, too, as it is in Syria. One war crime to not justify another.

Russia Must Recognize Ukraine Rebels' Human Rights Abuses

Recently I was present when local authorities started exhuming 14 bodies from a mass grave in Sloviansk. Local authorities appear to have identified at least some of the bodies as having been detained and killed by Moscow-backed insurgent forces when they were in control of the city from mid-April to early July. In fact, after the insurgent forces fled Sloviansk, journalists found execution orders in the secret service building that they used for headquarters and detention facility.

Human Rights Watch documented in detail that these same insurgent forces have been running amok — taking, beating and torturing hostages, as well as wantonly threatening and beating people who are pro-Kiev. We also documented that they are implicated in at least one targeted killing of a prominent local political activist.

Insurgent forces, so strongly supported by Russia, have also committed other violations. In a report released yesterday, Human Rights Watch documented that insurgent forces have endangered medical staff and patients, violating the laws of war. The insurgent forces have threatened medical staff, stolen and destroyed medical equipment and hospital furniture, occupied hospital buildings and wards, and expropriated ambulances for transporting active fighters.

Now, back to the rockets. The use of unguided rockets, including so-called Grad rockets, has become a significant problem in the armed conflict in eastern Ukraine and has been a major cause of civilian deaths and injuries. Grad rockets are especially nasty weapons. For one, they are notoriously imprecise. At its maximum range of some 20 kilometers, the most common rocket is only accurate within a rectangle of 336 meters by 160 meters, which means that it is not accurate at all. We believe that Grad rockets should never be used in populated areas because of the very high risk that civilians will be killed and injured.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/06/russia-must-recognize-ukraine-rebels-human-rights-abuses

[ballyhoo]

21. I see no eggs. I see only a march of prisoners.

dddd

[VanGoghRocks]

34. I see only a march of neo-Nazi and fascist terrorists.

[ballyhoo]

35. I stand corrected...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

45. Such nuanced thinking. nt