U.S. ambassador warns of 'Russian-directed counteroffensive'

[DonViejo]

Source: Washington Post

Ukraine said Tuesday its forces detained a group of Russian paratroopers who crossed the border into eastern Ukraine, and the U.S. ambassador to Kiev warned of a possible “Russian-directed counteroffensive” by pro-Moscow separatists, raising tensions between the two countries ahead of a planned meeting between their presidents at a regional summit.

In a briefing Tuesday, Ukrainian military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said the Ukrainian army detained 10 Russian paratroopers in the Donetsk region, scene of some of the heaviest fighting with separatist rebels in the east.


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/putin-will-meet-with-ukrainian-counterpart-in-high-stakes-summit-amid-tense-situation/2014/08/26/875db403-5b7b-4d89-8443-5aee1bde6345_story.html

[another_liberal]

1. That excuse didn't take long in coming . . .

The powers that be have to come up with some reason why Ukrainian Separatist self-defense forces have managed to surround about half of Kiev's army southeast of Donetsk. We can't just admit that Poroshenko's regulars and their assorted fascist allies have gotten slapped-down seriously in the last few days.

Surely it can't be that Ukraine's aggression against Donetsk and Lugansk is not enthusiastically supported by their own troops, or that the advice they are receiving from Western military advisers has been badly flawed. Oh no! This setback for Poroshenko's murderous plans must be because of something the Russians did. Right?

(sigh)

[ballyhoo]

3. The Western Military advisers are doing as badly in

Ukraine as they are doing everywhere else they are now and have been. Petro needs to find some other friends than those with agenda. And I don't mean Right Wing Nazis who kill babies for fun.

[IronGate]

7. Do you have a legitimate link for your claim here?

The powers that be have to come up with some reason why Ukrainian Separatist self-defense forces have managed to surround about half of Kiev's army southeast of Donetsk. We can't just admit that Poroshenko's regulars and their assorted fascist allies have gotten slapped-down seriously in the last few days

Because, so far, all you've provided in the way of "proof" is sources that are aligned with Moscow, not any neutral source.

[another_liberal]

8. I thought you'd never ask . . .

Here's a place to start:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025435869

[IronGate]

9. RT? That's your proof?

I asked for a legitimate source and you give me RT? A mouthpiece for the Kremlin?
C'mon, you can do better than that. Or can you?

[another_liberal]

10. The Ukrainian government's press service is never going to admit a defeat . . .

If that is the kind of thing you require, you'll have a long wait indeed.

[IronGate]

11. So, IOW, other than RT's claim, you have nothing?

Thought so.

[another_liberal]

12. How does what I might "have" mean anything in this context?

If you don't like what I'm trying to tell you about, you are quite free to not read my posts.

FYI: All of the World, other than our rather provincial nation and it's closest lackeys, recognizes Russia Today News as very reliable source for information, especially information one will not find in our own Wall Street-controlled media.

[IronGate]

13. So why don't you post a link to another news source claiming what RT is saying?

I've looked, and other than pro-Russia sources, there is nothing about this.
If you have another mainstream source, I'll be happy to read it, until then, this is nothing more than bullshit propaganda from Putin's favorite cheerleader, RT and you.

[another_liberal]

14. I already suggested you employ a google search . . .

If you reject my sources, go find your own.

Your repeated complaints are becoming tedious and unpleasant. Surely you don't wish to become known as a bore?

[IronGate]

15. I did as you suggested and, other than pro-Moscow sources,

there is nothing to suggest that this RT claim is true.
All I'm asking is if you have a non biased source for RT's and your claim?
Can you or can you not provide a link to a neutral source?

[another_liberal]

16. I see no reason to back up my original source . . .

You seem to be the one with a problem.

Don't worry, though, once the fascists from Kiev get beaten badly enough even CNN will cover it for you.

[IronGate]

17. Huh?

Don't worry, though, once the fascists from Kiev get beaten badly enough even CNN will cover it for you

But that's not what's happening is it?
Those pro Russian terrorists are losing ground day by day, even you admitted that they lost a strategic town the other day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5445696

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. "the soldiers had crossed the border by accident" - that excuse didn't take long in coming

Russia is pleading incompetence. In which case they should back the fuck off, if they can't even tell where they are.

Captured in Dzerkalne https://maps.google.com/maps?q=47.794722,38.261111&hl=en&ll=47.82422,38.265381&spn=0.478534,1.352692&t=m&z=10 - about 10 miles inside Ukraine.

[jakeXT]

4. They shouldn't have sent Ukrainian soldiers back they captured before/nt

[Fantastic Anarchist]

5. Relevant:

Poroshenko — a billionaire who took office in June — complicated matters on the eve of the summit by announcing via Twitter that he was dissolving the parliament in advance of elections scheduled for later this fall in an attempt to get a more like-minded legislature. The president noted in a statement that it would be impossible to win a war with a legislative body that could barely agree on whether the separatists were terrorists.

Interesting.

[another_liberal]

6. Obviously a true believer in democratic values . . .

And a champion of the peoples' right to choose their own representatives.

At any rate, I'm sure he will both of those things when he finally gets a Parliament spineless enough to do what he says without objection.

[Igel]

18. There are a couple of months of context

Some here know it and pretend it doesn't exist when it suits the party line. In some cases it's a true shock even if it's been plastered for weeks all over the Ukrainian press because, well, some things don't make it through the press filter. Unless you focus on opposition sources in Russia, and many of those have limited distribution and some DUers just don't even notice they exist.

It was announced days it advance that the announcement disbanding the Rada would most likely come the day. There had been a lot of speculation and negotiations, much public, about it. Most had expected it before, public opinion surveys had been sharply in favor of disbanding it, but the prime minister balked at the idea and wanted some stuff passed before the Rada was disbanded. When the remaining bills couldn't be passed, that Rada had outlived its usefulness. It just met to sit and do nothing.

This kind of disbanding is a fairly common procedure--more common in purely parliamentarian systems, but common enough in hybrid systems. "New president" usually means a new distribution of electoral power. In the case of the Rada, it's been around for well over a year and political boundaries have shifted a lot. There are more than one politician who defends not his constituency but his ideology. In some cases even the RW parties from the west, not just those from the east, have lost a lot of support and are creating problems. They'll likely lose what few seats they have, some may not even make the minimum # of votes.