Judge refuses to block anti-Obama Marine from discipline

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Reuters

Judge refuses to block anti-Obama Marine from discipline
By Marty Graham
SAN DIEGO | Wed Apr 4, 2012 10:50pm EDT

(Reuters) - A federal judge refused on Wednesday to block disciplinary action against a Marine who criticized President Barack Obama on Facebook and called him a "domestic enemy" in a posting to an internal military network.

Marine Sergeant Gary Stein, 26, a meteorologist stationed at Camp Pendleton near San Diego, filed suit on Tuesday, saying the Marine Corps was violating his right to free speech. A Southern California congressman has rallied to his defense.

The Marines have said they initiated discharge proceedings against Stein after he posted political statements about Obama on a Facebook page he runs called the "Armed Forces Tea Party."

Military experts have said that by associating the name of his Facebook page with the Armed Forces, Stein was essentially putting himself in the position of publicly expressing his personal political opinions while in uniform, which Defense Department rules prohibit.


Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/05/us-usa-marines-facebook-idUSBRE83403M20120405?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&rpc=401

[NYC_SKP]

1. The marine can most certainly be discharged for this behavior.

Just as much as if he'd written the same message on the officers' quarters back in 1962.

Free speech?

No sale.

[Judi Lynn]

2. Republican looney-toon Rep. Duncan Hunter has attempted to intercede for this Teabagger.

From the O.P.:

U.S. Representative Duncan Hunter, a Republican former Marine whose district encompasses an area near Camp Pendleton, has urged the Marine Corps to let Stein at least complete the less than four months left in his enlistment.

You probably remember Duncan Hunter as the one who made a laughable presentation in Congress concerning the diet for Guantanamo prisoners which he thought was downright posh, bringing a plate of it to the floor and pointing out what he perceived as various delicious munchable delights.

[center][/center]

[frylock]

8. duncan hunter has retired..

this is duncan hunter, jr. that's referenced in the op. he "represents" me here in the fighting 52nd.

[Judi Lynn]

14. Thanks for the correction. What a creepy family. n/t

[cstanleytech]

17. " he "represents" me here in the fighting 52nd." My profound symathies to you. nt

[Dawson Leery]

3. Seeing that he committed a crime under military law,

an dishonorable discharge would be proper.

[cstanleytech]

18. Bingo!! Just like if a soldier had done something similar to Bush

no matter how much many of us dislike him and believe he committed crimes while in office he was still the president and you just dont do this stuff to a president while they are in office and your still servicing in the military so ya, this guy needs to be court-martialed and he needs to lose all and any benefits he might have earned while in the military.

[Sirveri]

24. His discharge would likely be an OTH, not a DD.

Though it is looking like he's heading for a court martial. DD is typically reserved for seriously nasty stuff, like robbery, murder, rape, etc...

[BeGoodDoGood]

45. Other Than Honorable

I believe you can still get an OTH discharge administratively. For a Dishonorable Discharge you have to be court-martialed out.

I was in the Marines when they instituted the Expeditious Discharge Program back in the '80's. It helped morale a lot. Guys that didn't want to be there could be sent home with a General/OTH discharge. With an OTH though, that is still a general discharge (as opposed to an Honorable Discharge). The 'member' still gets a reduced level of veterans benefits. It was worth it to get rid of people who didn't want to be there.

Comments that are disparaging to the president are "prejudicial to good order and discipline."


Walt

[Beartracks]

4. Personal responsibility and accountability

Notwithstanding that free speech is already somewhat curtailed in the military, this man simply needs to accept the consequences of his words.

=============================

[movonne]

5. I bet he was a rush limpballs listener...this is one reason

they should take him off AFR...

[William769]

6. He should be discharged for not knowing the UCMJ!

What a fucking idiot.

[caveat_imperator]

15. He probably convinced himself that right-wing opinions are not subject to discipline.

I bet he reported any liberal opinion he heard to his superiors, though.

[jeff47]

7. A couple of his statements

An internal meterologists forum:

As an active-duty Marine, I have sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Obama is the economic enemy, the religious enemy, the domestic enemy.

Facebook:

I say screw Obama. I will not follow orders given by him to me.

After he was caught, he "clarified" that he meant unlawful orders.

Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-marines-facebookbre83403m-20120404,0,7761933.story

[MLKJrInspired]

9. Yes for free speech ... but refusing to do your job often leads to disciplinary action.

Hmm, that's a tough one. I initially came to this thread to rail for free speech, but then I saw his alleged FB posts about refusing to follow orders from Obama. Openly disobeying the top person in the organization -- ouch, that's going to lead to disciplinary action in almost any situation. He needs a more productive way of expressing his opinion.

[jeff47]

10. Declaring Obama "an enemy" isn't gonna go over well either.

[MADem]

13. The oath of enlistment he took overrides any "free speech."

If a service member wants free speech, they can finish up their enlistment or resign their commission, and yack all they want.

You give up certain liberties when you volunteer to protect the liberties of others. It's just how it is.

[stlsaxman]

29. Bingo!

Thank you.

[obamanut2012]

34. He's in the military -- he has very little free speech

And, you have zero if you're violating the UMJC. He's lucky all they are doing is kicking him out.

If I posted this on my work intranet, I would be fired, too.

[MADem]

11. The Marine ought to sit his smug ass down and read his damn enlistment contract--it might give him a

clue. He should pay special attention to the oath of enlistment he took, and signed. Then, if that's not elucidative enough, he should waddle down to the JAG office and ask if he can read their UCMJ and MCM. It'll school him on just what a putz he is. He plainly slept through all the important lectures in boot camp.

A meteorologist, eh? Just as well they're giving him the boot. He clearly has no clue as to which way the wind is blowing.

What an idiot. The good news is, someone who wants to stay and serve honorably will have a better chance of so doing, because this guy is one off the drawdown list--no one had to be given their walking papers, he did it to himself--a freebie, if you will.

[scheming daemons]

12. F*** him... throw the book at him

[Judi Lynn]

16. Found two lovely photos of this TeaBagging Marine, suitable for framing:

[center]

[/center]

[theaocp]

19. Looks like Louis Gohmert meets Scott Walker.

[MADem]

36. One nice thing about the Armed Services is the access to free and outstanding dental care.

It looks like this Marine is out of compliance with his dental program.

It might be that the photographer and screen shot caught him at a bad angle, but he looks like somewhat of a dull fellow, IMO. In the second shot, he looks stoned and drooling.

[Jack Rabbit]

20. The reality is . . .

The brass usually doesn't come down on anybody just for dissing somebody up the chain of command. I'd have gotten myself into a lot more trouble a lot more often if they did, and so would have a lot of other guys I drank beer with. The commander of the 2nd Infantry Division while I was there gave every troop between Seoul and the DMZ the idea that he stayed awake at night just thinking of ways to make our lives miserable. The night he left the country after receiving a poor IG report there was as celebration in town. One of the guys in my unit raised his beer and said, "OK, everybody, he should be taking off about now. Think crash."

Calling the President of the United States something unflattering is done as much in the military as out. It doesn't matter who the president is, dissing him has become a great American past time. It's really OK, as long as you don't say it too loud or too publicly.

They didn't have Facebook when I served in the Army. That's a big difference. Saying it in the barracks or at the local watering hole is OK, but saying it on Facebook is another matter. And saying that one would never carry out an order from the commander-in-chief that publicly is definitely over the line. Not only did SGT Stein say he would not obey an order for the President, he said it in a way that encouraged an open discussion on the merits of his case. That's not something the military can tolerate. An order comes down from the top, it is to be followed, period. No discussion. Emphasize: No discussion.

As a vet with strong views on politics of my own, I feel sorry for SGT Stein. I believe in free speech and I would not begrudge his civil liberties. Nevertheless, the military is founded on discipline and at least having enough respect for authority to obey an order even if one has misgivings about the source of the order or the consequences of obedience. He used social networking media to reach hundreds of troops and invited an open, serious discussion of mutiny, whether that was his intent or not. He used very poor judgment in this matter, and that it why disciplinary action against him will proceed as it should.

[SemperEadem]

26. this isn't an issue of free speech

Last edited Thu Apr 5, 2012, 06:59 AM - Edit history (2)

this is an issue of violating the terms of the contract he signed when he enlisted and the code of conduct:

Military experts have said that by associating the name of his Facebook page with the Armed Forces, Stein was essentially putting himself in the position of publicly expressing his personal political opinions while in uniform, which Defense Department rules prohibit.

Stein does not have the words "former" or "retired" qualifying his status. There are no past tense verbs in relation to his status, so that means he was in uniform--active--when he posted this. Huge difference.

Plenty of retired and former service members are a part of the Tea Booger party and that is their right as free, ordinary citizens to exercise their right to assembly. Stein is not in that segment of the population. There is a reason why there is a code of conduct and if he thought that that didn't apply to him, then he's sure getting some schooling on that shit now.

[nvme]

21. Free speech is tantamount.

However as a member of the military you cannot use your capacity as a soldier to make political statements. Just like the one soldier who showed up at a Santorum or ron paul rally in Uniform. That gives the impression that the military does not follow th orders of their comander in chief

[Demit]

22. Tantamount to what?

[Lasher]

23. Stein is involved with the Oath Keepers

This fool has bought into their rhetoric.

[DocMac]

31. And the FBI should be watching this

guy for years to come. A Marine with a rifle can do serious damage and this guy has enough hate in him to jumpstart a tragedy.

[Lasher]

35. There's a lot more just like him

There were 1274 active 'Patriot' groups in the USA last year.

The 'Patriot' Movement Explodes

The radical right grew explosively in 2011, the third such dramatic expansion in as many years. The growth was fueled by superheated fears generated by economic dislocation, a proliferation of demonizing conspiracy theories, the changing racial makeup of America, and the prospect of four more years under a black president who many on the far right view as an enemy to their country.

The number of hate groups counted by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) last year reached a total of 1,018, up slightly from the year before but continuing a trend of significant growth that is now more than a decade old. The truly stunning growth came in the antigovernment “Patriot” movement — conspiracy-minded groups that see the federal government as their primary enemy.

The Patriot movement first emerged in 1994, a response to what was seen as violent government repression of dissident groups at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992 and near Waco, Texas, in 1993, along with anger at gun control and the Democratic Clinton Administration in general. It peaked in 1996, a year after the Oklahoma City bombing, with 858 groups, then began to fade. By the turn of the millennium, the Patriot movement was reduced to fewer than 150 relatively inactive groups.

But the movement came roaring back beginning in late 2008, just as the economy went south with the subprime collapse and, more importantly, as Barack Obama appeared on the political scene as the Democratic nominee and, ultimately, the president-elect. Even as most of the nation cheered the election of the first black president that November, an angry backlash developed that included several plots to murder Obama. Many Americans, infused with populist fury over bank and auto bailouts and a feeling that they had lost their country, joined Patriot groups.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/the-year-in-hate-and-extremism

[DocMac]

41. I would imagine that one of those groups

will try to recruit him. Seems like many of these "Patriot" groups would rather stay under the radar. It's disturbing how overt this Marine is about, what most would consider, a radical political position.

I don't recall anything like this during the Bush years.

[Lasher]

44. As I've said, I believe he's already been recruited.

The Oath Keepers, for example, recruit active duty soldiers and law enforcement officers - as well as vets and retired police.

[Sirveri]

25. I would laugh so hard if Obama gave this chump a pardon.

It would just demolish him and his entire position in one single signature.

[JHB]

27. I think there's a simpler term for his position...

"Horseshit"

[lunatica]

28. I wonder if this man would fight to defend us here on DU

I would hazard a guess that the answer would be no. DU is full of the kind of people he hates.

And I wouldn't want to have to depend on him either. He simply doesn't inspire confidence in his abilities or in his beliefs. Our lives wouldn't be in the best of hands.

[JoePhilly]

30. Maybe he can use the insanity defense. He's clearly nuts.

[Javaman]

32. didnt another soldier try this bullshit a couple of years ago?

I think he was one of the "birther" halfwits. He was cut loose with a dishonorable discharge.

It's always amazing to me when a soldier does this. They sign the forms the take the oath but when these pea brains don't get their way, suddenly they think they are special and exempt from military law.

When you are in the service, you are now the property of the US Military.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

38. The President is the Commander in Chief

this soldier can't just say or do what he wants

[Lasher]

39. One was Major Stefan F. Cook

He volunteered to deploy in Afghanistan, then got Orly to file a 2009 lawsuit challenging his deployment orders. The Army revoked his orders to deploy and his case was dismissed.

Later that same year Orly filed a similar case on behalf of Captain Connie Rhodes, a U.S. Army physician. That was the case where Taitz was fined $20,000 for misconduct. If memory serves, Captain Rhodes' deployment to Iraq was not voluntary, and she went as ordered.

I don't think anyone has so far been given a Dishonorable Discharge for similar behavior.

Sergeant Stein is a teabagger, but I believe he's also a birther, as well as a member of the 'Patriot' movement. Unlike these other two soldiers, he has gone so far as to disobey a lawful order under the UCMJ. The military is seeking a Less Than Honorable Discharge for him. I believe they will be successful.

[Javaman]

40. That's the guy, Major Cook.

that whole event was a clown act.

[DocMac]

42. That's true.

You can face charges for destruction of government property if you get a tattoo.

They never do it unless you get a serious infection and cannot perform your duties, though.

[DocMac]

43. What "warmongering King" do you speak of?

Are you sure that you're in the right place?

[Lasher]

46. Not in the wrong place anymore.

Buh bye, troll.

[DocMac]

47. They didn't really try hard.

I guess they thought some Bush bashing would get them a pass for the rest.

I had to read it twice to make sure it wasn't me.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. Why can't the 'media' tell this story as it is? I'm sick of hearing how this

poor Marine is being disciplined for his 'anti-Obama' comments. He's not. He's being disciplined for violating the rules.