Pope: 'God Is Not Afraid Of New Things'

[Beacool]

Source: The Huffington Post.



(Reuters) - Pope Francis has closed an assembly of Catholic bishops that revealed deep divisions on how to respond to homosexuality and divorce, saying on Sunday the Church should not be afraid of change and new challenges.

Francis, who has said he wants a more merciful and less rigid Church, made his comments in a sermon to some 70,000 people in St. Peter's Square for the ceremonial closing of a two-week assembly, known as a synod.

The working session of the gathering ended on Saturday night with a final document that reversed a historic acceptance of gays by the Church made just a week earlier -- a result some progressives see as a setback for Francis.

"God is not afraid of new things. That is why he is continuously surprising us, opening our hearts and guiding us in unexpected ways," the pope said.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/19/pope-homosexuality-church-gay_n_6010904.html

---

The conservative bishops were not going to allow the Pope and the more progressive bishops to make any concessions. They are the people who made sure that Francis wasn't chosen Pope in 2005 (he came in second place after Benedict).

[RussBLib]

1. maybe not God, but his people sure are

...and I guess he isn't ready for same-sex marriage.

This Pope is no different than any of the other popes. Why anyone still pays homage to him, and the Catholic Church, is beyond me.

[ballyhoo]

12. I pay zero attention to him on anything, but I am not

Catholic. His very statement that "God is not afraid of new things" is arrogant as hell. If there, indeed, is a God, and I am not sure anymore, there would be no new things because God would know all things past, present and future.

[logosoco]

18. ^^this^^^

except I was raised Catholic and started questioning religion and the idea of god when I was about 7. If god is the creator of all things, why would he be afraid? Reminds me of the old Carlin thing about asking the nuns~ if god is all powerful, can he himself make a rock that he can't lift?

[ballyhoo]

22. I would say no but that is a what came first the chicken or the egg type question. It

has no answer in the real world. I have wondered about God and religion at a much later time than you. However, regardless of whether I believe in God or not, I think everyone needs a higher power than himself/herself. And the current God mold was a good model for that. One thing I firmly believe: by this time next year much of the population will wish that God did exist. Well, nice talking to you. I don't discuss religion here because there seems to be less and less believers and the non-believers are very judgmental. You were not like that.

[ZombieHorde]

46. The egg came first.

Evolution happens through offspring.

I think everyone needs a higher power than himself/herself.

I sometimes wonder if belief in a higher power would benefit me, but I am not currently capable of even believing in a god, let alone a higher power (the two are very different things in my mind). I hope your belief enriches your life very much.

One thing I firmly believe: by this time next year much of the population will wish that God did exist.

That is pretty dark.

I don't discuss religion here because there seems to be less and less believers and the non-believers are very judgmental.

I don't blame you. Religion wasn't designed for debates, in my opinion. If I was a religious man, I would not debate it, because that is not what it's for. I don't use my laptop to stir soup, I don't use a chair to paint pictures, etc. Religion is for enriching life and "understanding" what cannot be understood, in my opinion. However, religions often contain things that are for debate, such as philosophy, ethics, etc.

[Sam1]

47. This should win the comment

of the century award.

I don't blame you. Religion wasn't designed for debates, in my opinion. If I was a religious man, I would not debate it, because that is not what it's for. I don't use my laptop to stir soup, I don't use a chair to paint pictures, etc. Religion is for enriching life and "understanding" what cannot be understood, in my opinion. However, religions often contain things that are for debate, such as philosophy, ethics, etc.

[ballyhoo]

54. I agree somewhat. However, I have no

problem with it being discussed when it is the process of change by what is supposed to be God's spokesperson on Earth. But thank you for the well-thought post. Maybe we can discuss it further in Heaven.

[Daemonaquila]

31. That's bloody blind.

Clearly, he does not believe in the rigid concept of omniscience and predestination. Be happy. That's not arrogant, that's heading toward enlightened. Let people celebrate having a pope who's not a completely ossified conservative hair-brain.

[ballyhoo]

38. Let "them" go for it. I'll stay back and remember a

stern but fair God who may not give you a pony but would occasionally aid you in the decision making process or hold your spiritual hand when you had dead people all around you moaning for their mothers. I know very few happy people anymore. I know people full of fear with what is happening around them including the disobedience of religious laws and precepts they were taught as children and followed all of their lives. Not a doubt in my mind what's going to happen, but at this point I don't know whether the denouement will be at God's hand or that of man. Having said that, by all means enjoy your pope. The MIC hasn't ended that right yet.

[pnwmom]

49. There is nothing arrogant in his statement, and it doesn't contradict the idea

that God would know all things, past, present, and future. He was speaking from the human perspective. To humans, some things are new (marriage equality, for instance), and he's saying that God isn't afraid of new things even if some people are.

[ballyhoo]

53. I disagree adamantly and really don't need to

discuss it further. I am old and really don't need to redefine God as do you apparently. Mankind is now redefining itself out of existence moving at an alarming rate. The world with the new human-defined God rather than the bible's interpretation (as faulty as it may be) will not be a pleasant place. I hope the new Pope ejoys it. If not, he can always redefine it again.

[Tweedy]

76. Man is full of error

I can neither read the bible in any of its original languages, nor have I ever spoken with God. We, humans, make mistakes in truly epic fashion every day. How do you know we have gotten biblical interpretation correct? How can we love our neighbor as we are commanded if we are busy throwing stones? I am full of questions.

[ballyhoo]

77. The same way you believe there is a sky. Because it's that thing you have

decided to believe-- Just keep believing that which suits you. Watch where you'll get.

[Tweedy]

80. Actually no

I don't believe there is a sky. I call it the sky, because speaking in technical scientific terms is usually bad for communication. There is an atmosphere, a stratosphere, etc. I don't mean to be picayune, but science has answered some questions.

As for believing that which suits me, actually I have many questions and few beliefs.

[crim son]

58. Thank you, pnwmom!

He was clearly trying to get people to think. As indicated by some comments in this thread, it didn't work.

[candelista]

69. Maybe God is afraid of new things.

Maybe that's why we haven't heard anything official from him since the Book of Job.

[ozone_man]

95. +1 n/t

[EEO]

2. Religion is such bullshit.

[Helen Borg]

5. Shhhh. This is America, after all :)

[RKP5637]

16. That's the bottom line of it all, but there're big $$$$$'s in religion and the meek shall follow!n/t

[closeupready]

36. Yup. What other industry is taxpayer subsidized, pays zero income tax,

zero property taxes .... um, wait a minute, on second thought, American religiosity IS an industry just like the finance industry or Google, Amazon, etc.

But yeah, +1 to your point.

[RKP5637]

41. In today's new America, as a citizen, one is akin to a disgruntled employee in a

large corporation, USA, Incorporated.

[Heywood J]

51. Uh, finance? (NT)

[bvf]

45. The only proper response, IMO.

Everybody arguing about whether Frank has gotten steamrolled and what an amazing guy he is or isn't is just so much nonsense.

In a sane world, there wouldn't be the need for such "discussions." People wouldn't need to look to any imaginary forces to inform their lives.

[Helen Borg]

3. What does that even mean?

... Homosexuality is not a new thing...

[Beacool]

8. I think that he meant that people (conservative bishops in this case) shouldn't be afraid of change.

It would be a new thing for the Catholic Church to be more open about homosexuality, divorce and Catholics remarrying. The conservative bishops rejected any change to the old doctrines.

[Ken Burch]

14. It's not about them being "afraid of change"...what it is is they don't want to give up power.

Most of the power the princes of the Church hold in the modern world is tied to their ability to shame people about their private lives and meddle with those lives. The shaming and meddling are also designed to discourage people from questioning not only the authority of said princes but the authority of any secular institutions and individuals the church is allied with...some of which are extremely wealthy and extremely fond of using insidious and even brutal methods to preserve their privilege. If the Church stops shaming people over things pretty much everyone does, those people will lose their fear and realize they deserve better in life than they get in the existing order.

This is the same reason "Victorian morality" was invented in 19th Century Protestant Britain...the Crown and the ministers of Her Majesty's Government became ultra-sanctimonious and judgmental about sex because the country had been rocked by proto-revolutionary uprisings in the 1820's and 1830's, and something had to be done to remind the proles of "their place".

[RKP5637]

19. And the faithful never want to hear the facts, and the control freaks hold their power over them! nt

[Ken Burch]

23. Almost like THIS country, some days. n/t.

[RKP5637]

25. Yep, much the same! Religion is just another form of politics IMO. Power, control and money! n/t

[Arugula Latte]

60. They would be up in arms if a non-religious organization behaved like this,

but because mythology and supernatural tales are attached to this institution, somehow they support them and excuse them endlessly. It's pathetic, really.

[RKP5637]

72. It is pathetic, so pathetic, demonstrating how many are so damn brainwashed that they

can't stick their head out of the ruts they wander in and see their paths might well be flawed in many ways.

[Treant]

4. God is just afraid of gay things.

And things with ovaries.

And spiders, of course. Everybody's afraid of large spiders.

Y'know what, Francis? Just piss off.

[Beacool]

9. God is not afraid, conservatives are the ones who are afraid of change.

The comment was directed at those who fear any change to the old ways of doing things. The Pope knows that the Church needs to move with the times or it will wither and die.

[Treant]

13. I'm aware of that.

I'm also aware he talks a great game, but gets out of actually doing anything with the perpetual excuse, "They won't let me do it."

At this point, I write him off as tolerable PR if you're inclined to not inspect what he's actually done about child rape (essentially nothing), women's rights (nothing), reproductive rights (nothing), gay rights (nothing), or anything else for that matter.

So an empty robe (the ecclesiastical version of an empty suit), even if he's a much more smiley face and cheerful voice on the load of crap that is the Catholic Church.

[Ken Burch]

15. ...and let's not even get started about gay spiders with ovaries...

[Treant]

21. No No No No No No No No No

If they're on birth control and vote Democrat, they could topple the foundations of society!

[pnwmom]

50. That's the opposite of what he's saying.

He's countering the conservative bishops who do believe that. He doesn't. He's not afraid of change.

[madokie]

6. Beings as how God is a man creation

he can be anything someone can convince another of

Many if not most wars are over religion. The bible thumpers say all kinds of evil is in the Koran. All I can say to them is read the old testament sometimes and you'll see its chock full of mistreatments toward our fellow humans too.
I'm in the later stages of life and it bothers me not that I don't believe in a God out there somewhere. My god is in me and its called a conscience and a will to do good towards all things evolved.

[Lurks Often]

7. Pope Francis is moving the Catholic Church in the right direction

I'm not especially religious or overly fond of organized religion, but Pope Francis seems to be a decent person who is moving the Catholic Church in the proper direction much faster then I think most would have guessed.

It is very naive to think that the Catholic Church was going to reverse hundreds of years of belief and what they have long opposed overnight. Pope Francis is probably the most progressive Pope that the Catholic bishops would have allowed to be elected.

[Beacool]

10. Lord knows that he's trying, no pun intended.........

I think that the Catholic Church is very lucky to have him. He didn't want the job, but accepted the burden graciously. To think that the Europeans wanted the conservative Cardinal of Milan. If it hadn't been for the African, Asian, Latin American and North American cardinals, the Church would have ended up with someone similar to Benedict.

[Thinkingabout]

32. I also think he is trying to move the Catholic Church in the right direction. He shows great

compassion, something which is lacking worldwide, he should be given credit for his efforts.

[Scootaloo]

44. I agree

The dude's an old Catholic himself and probably has his own suite of calcified bullshit in his head, and i imagine trying to move the Church in any particular direction is a monumental effort. But i can recognize that you've gotta fucking start somewhere, and reversing rhetoric, while not exactly revolutionary to us, is in fact something.

And then one must stop and consider... how much power does the Pope hold? This ain't the seventh century, after all. The actual authoriy wielded by the pope is probably pretty fucking miniscule.

[AngryOldDem]

48. He is.

God knows I am not the Catholic Church's greatest defender -- I left it years ago because of some of its regressive beliefs -- but I think Francis is the right man at the right time to begin (note I said, "begin&quot to lead the Church in the right direction.

That's why it puzzles me when I read here all the negative comments. Seems to me that this is **exactly** the kind of Pope that people were calling for when Benedict was in charge.

It's a huge understatement to say that change comes slowly to the Church. And I'm sorry that people can't or won't understand that Francis just can't wave his hand and change centuries of teaching and tradition overnight, or summarily fire the curia. Things don't work that way. The Church is a bureaucracy like any other institution. But at least recognize this Pope for at least bringing to light the subjects that the Church needs to talk about if it still wants to remain relevant.

What may seem like small, insignificant steps to some are seen by others who watch the Vatican as noteworthy and promising.

[NYC Liberal]

87. But he holds all the same positions as Benedict did.

On economics, civil rights, religious issues.

So if Francis is "progressive" -- even if that's relative -- then so is/was Benedict.

He has not actually changed anything. And it's not because "change is slow"; it's because he agrees with all the existing doctrines.

[Lurks Often]

88. I think Francis is a bit more "progressive" regarding some social issues

Again, all we are likely to see are incremental changes, he isn't going to drastically change the Catholic Church overnight or even in his lifetime, it's too big of a bureaucracy with too many entrenched traditionally Catholic bishops and cardinals for radical changes.

Pope Francis isn't interested in the perks of being Pope, he isn't living in the Papal Quarters and seems to be remaining the same humble man he was reported to be when he was in Argentina. I also get the sense of a gradual softening toward the LGBT community by Pope Francis from the Church's previous position.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/pope-who-am-i-judge-gay-people-f6C10780741

Is it a huge leap forward, of course not, but it is at least a step in the right direction.

Francis has only been the Pope for a bit more then 18 monthes, it will be interesting to see what does in the years to come.

And none of the above is meant to suggest that the Catholic Church doesn't have a very long way to go in many areas.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. there is nothing new under the sun.

Is there a thing of which it is said,
“See, this is new”?
It has been already
in the ages before us.

[Ken Burch]

17. Actual photo of traditionalist bishop celebrating the rejection of the new, progressive language:

[LynneSin]

20. As a Christian he's right, God wasn't afraid of new things.

Problem is the new thing was Jesus and today Christians still fricking overlook the new ideas that Jesus brought to the world.

You have to understand that up until Jesus was around the world was living with some really fucked up laws based on Old Testament laws. You know that crazy stuff that says I could chop off your hand if you stop crops from my garden. God was a pretty destructive, mean person that would even smite people from time to time, turning them to pillars of salt or making them wander in the desert for 40 years. God was someone to be feared.

Jesus was God's way of saying 'This old way of life ain't working anymore and I'm tired of being an asshole, let's try love instead and I want to be this guy who accepts people for face value'.

Problem is even today people are STILL ignoring that message and what's worse - they call themselves Christians too. They still say God is going to go smite people and that we can still take those archaic old testament laws (other than the 10 Commandments which technically are commonsense laws like don't kill or don't steal) and apply them to our faith today. And the crazy thing is, if people actually read the Gospels and followed what Jesus said they would realize that thinking like that is totally out of whack with Jesus' message.

Go figure.

[JDPriestly]

27. Thanks. Well said.

[Thinkingabout]

33. Thanks for your post, at least the subject has been brought up, some will never change but

perhaps they can see the error of their ways. I don't think he will stop.

[Arugula Latte]

61. So the universe consists of billions of galaxies that are billions of years old

but a man from 2,000 years ago on this little planet is the culmination of everything?

And if this "god" has enough power to create a magical son-god who cares about humanity, why does this being allow/cause so much human and animal suffering, death and destruction, disease and famine, natural disasters and environmental damage?

The whole sorry tale makes zero sense.

[LynneSin]

66. And you decided to insult me why?

Your whole sorry response is insultive. Two other people saw this as insight from someone who maybe they assumed was a Christian (Not sure I mentioned it in my thread but make no bones bout it, I am a Christian and I proudly admit it too). I posted that because I was showing faulting logic used yet again by these mega churches in how they interpret the bible, that's all.

But why you felt you had to be insultive is beyond me. You do know there are plenty of DUers who post here who are Christians and we are proud Christians too. And like any group of defined people we have our assholes out there and boy do Christians have their doozies of assholes in our group!

But just like I wouldn't start a thread like 'Oh we should just boot the Southeast United States out of the Country because everyone down there is just a bunch of closed-minded low-IQ republicans' because that's really really insultive and generalizing. I would ask that you do the same with Christians.

Here's a thought - most Christians out there are NOT assholes. Many of us belive in science and want to save the environment. Most of us realize that there is more to how the earth was created than what was in the book of Genisis but we have evolved past that because most of us believe in Evolution too. Unfortunately the Christians out there that have the political clout and the TV Cameras are the assholes and they know if they want to reap in the riches and control the masses then they need to keep the people stupid.

And those assholes - they aren't teaching the message of Jesus. Seriously, they aren't even close to it. Because if they were we wouldn't be in these damn wars and we would want to have social programs to help people and we would have passed marriage equality ages ago.

Sometimes I question if I see my faith as a religion or a philosphy of life. Because as a philosphy of life I see many many people following the teaching of Jesus but have never called themselves Christians, they may even call themselves Athiests. But he was a pretty cool dude and if he did come back to earth today he would not be hanging out with the likes of Pat Robertson unless it was to cleanse his church of the 'moneychangers' so to speak. (that would be Robertson and his ilk in biblical speak).

SO please, if someone gives you religious perspective, unless they end their post with - YOU MUST NOW CONVERT THIS OR FOREVER ROT IN HELL then just see this as insight from someone who might be a follower of the faith. If a Muslim or Jewish DUer posted something about their faith I would have respect as I read it even if I didn't believe in what they said.

*** gets off her soap box ***

[Warren Stupidity]

82. you weren't insulted, the ideas you expressed were insulted, and actually

they were just discussed, this being a discussion board and everything. Your sense of religious privilege causes you to interpret rejection of your expression of religious ideas as a personal insult. It isn't.

[LynneSin]

86. The ideas I present were very much a part of the subject

which was the Pope claiming the God like's 'new' ideas even though 2000 years ago was when God presented that 'new' idea that people were not to be judged and created equal. The idea was that the Pope was catching up with the ideas presented in the bible that was written about 2000 years ago.

Yes there are some pretty messed up verses in the bible especially Leviticus. But if a person has a basic understanding of the Gospel and Jesus they would realize that Leviticus was nothing more than history not laws to be obeyed (again outside the 10 Commandments which even for nonreligious is all commonsense rules to live by). So in a nutshell I was showing how the Bible explicitly through Jesus was telling followers to not only treat people equal, but to help each other, turn the other cheek and other radical notions that when you think about it are the same things that most progressives say are ideas they want to live by.

I know what your issue is and its the Christian bullshit out there being spewed all the time and I get it - I can't stand it either. But do you think you make it any better by spitting on the people who are actually on your side? My original post was simply to post out how the Pope was incorrect in saying that accepting Gays was a new idea because in all reality it's an idea that God put out there 2000 years ago and it's written in a bible that may have been divine inspiration or maybe a bunch of dudes sitting around a table one weekend 2000 years ago writing it. But that equality to all people was in that original bible so I question why the Pope think it's suddenly new to God? It isn't - it's just the Catholic Church catching up with what was written in the bible they follow and yes the one I read and follow too (but I maily stick with the Gospel because that was suppose to be the basis of the Christian Faith).

The post I got from you was basically - OOOhhh a Christian - I think I'll be a real jerk and insult this poster and make them feel stupid. It's ok, I get it because lets face it, there are a bunch of asshole Christians in this country who make people feel bad so I guess I get to be the one you insult to get back at all of them even if I don't agree with any of those asshole Christians. And 3 other people replied to my post with positive messages and even some good discussion so I suppose a 75% good response to the 1 bad one isn't an issue.

[abakan]

67. I don't quite understand...

How the being who is given credit for everything, can be afraid of anything new or otherwise. There is really nothing new in the world just reiterations of old stuff, and it's all his stuff.

[LynneSin]

71. Good points

Let's face it, even as a Christian I recognize that the Bible has always been used as a tool to manipulated the masses into the control. Because what I could never understand is why anyone who actually read the new ideas that Jesus present which was love, equality and sharing (Vs the old which was God smiting those who were sinners for not obeying all those crazy rules in Leviticus) would buy into the bullshit being spewed by these so-called Christian mouthpieces on TV today.

The so-called 'new ideas' that Pope Francis aren't really new ideas. 2000 years ago Jesus, whether people today think he was the Son of God or just another average Joe walking around philosophizing the meaning of life, was telling people to basically to stop judging others and to help those who are less fortunate.

Some of the best reads out there are the Gnostic Gospels, which are the other Gospels deemed not worthy enough to be included in the bible. There were dozens of people who wrote their story (or heresay or legends) of this dude Jesus that walked around with these radical new ideas that were so different from what folks normally believed from God. And the Gnostics really took a hard turn to the left. These books were not left out because someone thought they were inaccurate but because some of them would have destroyed the foundation created by the 'New' Church and how it had become such a huge money-making institution (remember Bible came about 300 years after Jesus). In all reality Jesus did not believe in organized religion. A Church was never an actual building but more like people just hanging out together doing good things and helping others. But to include a gospel that could change the masses ideal of donating money to organized religion. Those people might want to donate that money to help someone who was actually truly needed. (btw if that seems like the plotline to a bad Gabriel Byrne/Patricia Arquette movie it actually was - but there was some logic from the gnostics built into 'Stigmata').

So in the end and all this rambling what am I really saying?

God isn't embracing anything new, he did that ages ago when he sent his only Son who taught people profound things like 'love one another' and 'judge not lest we be judge' (which was not something preached before Jesus hence 'New'). It's just taking 2000+ years for the Catholic Church to catchup to all this ideology.

[abakan]

79. I liked Stigmata for that exact reason...

If you got past the silliness, the message was what I would like to believe and do to an extent. A building is not required and neither is a group, cult, or a particular dogma, required to believe and be a spiritual being. After seeing that I looked at everything related to Gnostics and I still do.

Thanks for your nice answer.

[LynneSin]

84. I've read and studied much of the Bible however it was after watching Stigmata...

that I got into ready the Gnostics.

Don't get me wrong, my ideology towards Christianity was still the same and I had done some studying of the Gnostics in college in one of my classes. But I could see the Newly formed Christian Church not wanting to upset it's balance and ability to rake in cash by including some of those Gnostics in the bible. Another perfect example of why something was exclude was the Gospel of Mary - the last thing the Church would want is to have a woman to be considered an equal amongst men, but hers is my favorite amongst the Gnostics.

[jtuck004]

24. So all that bullshit around christmas about working with the sheep - just more of your bs?

You people are loathsome.

[Nye Bevan]

93. "Working with the sheep"?

Are you referring to the shepherds watching their flocks by night?

[jtuck004]

96. No - I went as a guest to a midnite mass, and their preacher related this

story about how the shepherds were so effective with the sheep because they smelled like them, and that was because they lived with and like them, not above or around or "for" them. Said he got that from upstairs, which I took to mean the guy in Rome, but he didn't elaborate.

It was a really good speech. Must be the era for really good speeches.

Anyway, nice church. I was dragged to a southern baptist one until I got large enough to defend myself, and I haven't been back in a while. About 45 years, if I recall. So it was interesting to see, a lot fancier. And video cameras and guys in yellow shirts for security. (I thought the occasion called for those big helmets and lances I have seen at other churches on tv. These looked more like bicycle cops.). Even so, it doesn't appear much has changed, in more ways than one.

After the service they all went to their cars and left, passing the homeless guy under the park bench outside. Then again it was cold, and he wasn't a sheep, so perhaps they didn't know what to do - some people are a bit literal. Anyway, I went over and made sure I wouldn't startle him, wished him a good evening and christmas and gave him a little bit. Younger guy. Glad he didn't knife me. I expect he felt safer there than in the shelter, or perhaps it was closer to a food line the next morning.

Anyway, this sounds like more of the same. Take a lot, give a little, take a lot more. Old story.

[JDPriestly]

26. A Pope who is actually Christian? What is this world coming to?

Jesus was about accepting new things. All kinds of things. That's why the pharisees were so worried about him. Read the Bible, and you will see what I am talking about.

The story of the Good Samaritan. The Samaritans did not share all of the same beliefs as the Jews -- just some of them. When Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan, he was introducing a very new idea to the Jews who heard him. Now, it's possible and maybe even probable that Jesus was not the first to realize that Samaritans could be good, but he was still trying something new.

The Bishops? Not so much.

[calimary]

28. Sick and Tired of these little clutches of CONservatives, holding everybody else hostage.

There's always gotta be a turd in the punch bowl, I guess. Wish they'd STFU and BUTT OUT!!! If you ask me, it's the CONservative bishops (male, mind you) who are the main ones alienating much of the laity. Wonder how many molester priests they moved around out of the heat. I heard the conversation on Chris Matthews' show last week where they said "he (the Pope) wants you back." As in - that's what he's saying to all the Catholics who've fallen away or given up on the Church because of intolerant and condemning attitudes like this. I think that's what's happening here. THIS is a far less judgmental Pope than we've had in a long time. He's not there on everything, but he's certainly an improvement on a few things - like not wanting to shut gays out, and condemning "trickle-down" for what it IS. THAT is a good start, although His Holiness has a long way to go on other issues. This Pope probably recognizes that there's a BIG chunk of the faithful who would really like to live in THIS century, rather than being pulled back toward the 6th - or even farther back. And some of the hierarchy - MANY in the hierarchy - just refuse to accept this.

Makes me think of the book "A Modern Priest Looks at His Outdated Church."

https://www.papermasters.com/modern-priest-looks-at-his-outdated-church.html

[Sognefjord]

42. My background is Lutheran but at college we read books like the one you cited.

A thoughtful book and gave me much to ponder.

[calimary]

43. Yeah, no kidding! It was a major topic of conversation back then.

Really made people stop and think - provided they were open to such things. But if one WAS open to such things, it was reasonable to expect that they'd be the exact types who WOULD stop and think.

[Sognefjord]

74. Some books like "Honest to God" were course requirements

but it was amazing how many students just let the new theology was over them and then they'd just keep on with their childhood beliefs.

[Ilsa]

29. He's not perfect, but i think he's the best pope

in my lifetime. I hope he's allowed to live and make changes, even small ones.

[shenmue]

30. Baby steps are better than no steps at all

True, he is not going to be as liberal as he should. Long way to go on some issues.

But it's a start.

[MADem]

34. Maybe the Pope should start sending some of those comfortable bigots to

comfort the afflicted in Africa...? That might encourage them to back the changes old Frank seeks...?

[cosmicone]

35. umm ... if god made the universe

nothing in it should be new to him.

That would be like a homeowner who draws plans for a house and gets it constructed discovers an additional bedroom in it.

[closeupready]

37. But is the Pope afraid of his subordinates? He IS absolute leader.

What he says, goes. Obviously, he's either afraid of his subordinates or else he's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

[Hoppy]

39. God is perfect and what he does and creates is perfect.

So if he dropped Jesus on 'urf to bring peace and good will, (no, not the store for used stuff), he fucked up. It ain't working.

[Arugula Latte]

62. God is a perfect asshole

if it existed.

[Hoppy]

64. God and my boss must be brothers.

[archaic56]

40. best pr agent Rome has seen since the Borgias

OH yeah as long as gay folks have rights who gives a damn about the kids.. I don't care who a person sleeps with a long as it is isn't children. Republicans blame gays because trafficking originated with them(REPUBLICANS and we all know rethugs always blame others for what they do) and the POPE gives Machiavelli a run for his money. Children ought to have 18 years of being free of adults desires..but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
we got to appear liberal and make sure we pander to those who could give a shit about anyone else as long as they can have their fun.. (as if anyone cares about anyone but themselves) The day I saw adult rights taking precedence over childrens rights.. well I knew we lost it all. Gays have every right to be who they are full stop. BUT you guys did just hand this bastard permission to keep on keeping on till the cows come home. Thanks this is one survivor who won't be marching with my gay friends anymore. Once the POPE supports you.. as far as I am concerned, you just made a deal with the DEVIL. Creator have mercy on us all.
Isn't it funny how we all conveniently forget we were once children and empathy used to be a natural emotion. A Nation that doesn't respect womens rights and childrens rights is a nation in decline. I'd like to know why womens rights don't come first? After all, we bear the children. This world is run by men who wear a symbol of their anatomy tied round their carotid artery cutting circulation to their brains.. any questions?

dripping with cynicism I am ...disgusted with the entire human race

[Marrah_G]

68. Ummm I am not sure i understand

Gays made a deal with the devil because the Pope said maybe they aren't so bad? Why is it the fault of the LGBT what the pope says about anything?

I say this as both a mother of a lesbian and a relative of a number of survivors of priest abuse... My dislike for the catholic church, especially the Vatican is no secret. What I don't understand is how you can blame your LGBT friends. It makes no sense.

[archaic56]

98. all are at fault

My point is that a nation which cares about adults rights before they care about children rights is a nation in decline. Child sexual abuse started with the LORDS of the manner..I know two branches of my Norman family did it. Yet we allow the RETHUGS to blame gays and never raise our voices to correct them.. Is that any clearer? WE realy are a lost country when childrens rights to be free of adult proclivities is not something we even discuss in this world.Not gays fault ..it's the fault of the divide and conquer rich..Still, I expect people who have had their rights abridged , to be empathetic to others who have had the same. I have no hope for our country.. YOU either are one who does harm to people or you are one who stands against harming people. it's not rocket science. The RETHUGS use gays like a battering ram to further divide us and use blame game rhetoric.Hasn't anyone figured out the RETHUGS always blame others for the crimes they commit?

[Prophet 451]

52. If he can move the RCC forward slightly...

...more power to him. I'll still loathe his god.

[broadcaster75201]

55. Wouldn't nothing be new to a "god"? Belief in myth is killing us all nt

nt

[cornball 24]

56. What do Pope Francis and President Obama have in common?

No matter how committed they are and how hard they try, there are those who will discredit them for any/all their efforts on behalf of the people. Sad!

[potone]

57. I agree.

I'm not Catholic but I think this Pope is the best one the Church has had for decades and unlike what some people seem to think, he cannot all by himself change major doctrines of the Church. He has to have a majority of the higher clergy on board or they will revolt.

[cornball 24]

59. Much like the congress.

[Arugula Latte]

63. I'll never understand how liberals can support such a backwards, repressive institution in the

first place. Sorry, but if you donate to the RCC, you are supporting misogyny, homophobia, and child rape cover-up with your dollars.

[closeupready]

73. If an organized church dies because they have to pay property taxes,

it's worthless gibberish. Yet, this is the basis for so many modern American "churches". The "priest" gets lots of free stuff, church members get to itemize their donations on their 1040 form, and every American taxpayer is - in that way - paying for it.

Really is a scandal.

[Arugula Latte]

89. Religion = a racket

[Nye Bevan]

91. I guess you wouldn't have voted for JFK? (nt)

[Arugula Latte]

97. Uh, voting for one of two major candidates for president isn't the same

as donating to an oppressive, backwards, nefarious institution like the Catholic Church. Yes JFK was Catholic, but that was one factor among many, as compared to Nixon's plethora of crappy factors. Sorry but JFK being Catholic doesn't negate the fact that the RCC is a corrupt and repressive organization. Would I prefer to vote for a non-religious candidate for prez? Hell yeah -- but I if I waited for that I might never vote again. The USA is still in the grasp of organized superstition, and major candidates have to at least give lip service to believing in The Great Omnipotent Invisible Destructive (Oh, But Loving!) Deity and His Son The Magical Zombie Carpenter From Ancient Judea.

[MBS]

81. You got it. n/t

[Beacool]

90. Yep, that's par for the course.

I like this Pope, he's trying to move forward a behemoth institution that is notorious for its reluctance to make any major changes. He's trying, he's already accomplished a lot in a bit over a year since he has been Pope. Compared to previous Popes (particularly the previous one), he's a breath of fresh air.

[Zorra]

65. "God" is not afraid of new things, but conservatives are scared shitless of them.

I reckon conservatives have little, or nothing, in common with "God".

[Threedifferentones]

70. How can something be new to God?

God created everything, so everything must be old news to God...

[FLPanhandle]

75. I don't understand why anyone gay or straight has anything to do with religion

All religions. Silly stuff when you look at it logically.

[valerief]

78. That headline is hilarious. I thought this god created everything, so (1) nothing

is new and (2) wtf is the all-mighty supposed to be afraid of?

[ucrdem]

83. LOL, I think that's kind of the idea. . .

i.e. it's a sermon title, meant to provoke a chuckle, of a sort that Catholic prelates are not in the habit of provoking, at least not when they're the freakin' Pope. More a parish priest line, which makes it refreshing.

[Orsino]

85. Entrenched power structures sure as hell are.

Especially those based on fairy tales.

[Nye Bevan]

92. Encouraging. Reminds me of Obama slowly working his way towards being pro marriage equality

prior to his 2012 epiphany on the issue.

[ozone_man]

94. Tell that to Galileo.

Last edited Wed Oct 22, 2014, 12:03 AM - Edit history (1)

It's not God that is afraid, since he really doesn't exist, but the church that is afraid, and always has been.

It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticism that three are one and one is three, and yet, that the one is not three, and the three not one.... But this constitutes the craft, the power, and profits of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of fictitious religion, and they would catch no more flies.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams (August 22, 1813), Works, Vol. IV, p. 205, Randolph's edition