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brooklynite

(94,502 posts)
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:33 PM Oct 2014

Patient in New York City Tests Positive for Ebola

Source: New York Times

A doctor in New York City who recently returned from treating Ebola patients in Guinea tested positive for the Ebola virus Thursday, becoming the city’s first diagnosed case.

The doctor, Craig Spencer, was rushed to Bellevue Hospital on Thursday and placed in isolation while health care workers spread out across the city to trace anyone he might have come into contact with in recent days. A further test will be conducted by the federal Centers for Disease Control to confirm the initial test.

While officials have said they expected isolated cases of the disease to arrive in New York eventually, and had been preparing for this moment for months, the first case highlighted the challenges surrounding containment of the virus, especially in a crowded metropolis.

Even as the authorities worked to confirm that Mr. Spencer was infected with Ebola, it emerged that he traveled from Manhattan to Brooklyn on the subway on Wednesday night, when he went to a bowling alley and then took a taxi home.


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

132 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Patient in New York City Tests Positive for Ebola (Original Post) brooklynite Oct 2014 OP
First symptom of ebola must be an irresistible urge to take public transportation. TwilightGardener Oct 2014 #1
If you live in New York, you take public transportation. (nt) enough Oct 2014 #4
Yeah, but he really shouldn't have. He should have had family/friends do his TwilightGardener Oct 2014 #9
What is "fucking bowling"? "Was that really necessary"? uppityperson Oct 2014 #65
NY has fucking bowling, damn it I was just there I would have loved to do that Heather MC Oct 2014 #69
Free condom with every ball rental? uppityperson Oct 2014 #78
Don't laugh. Australia used a bowling alley for HIV education ad. denem Oct 2014 #93
Yes, Yes they do, Throckmorton Oct 2014 #92
The article says he began feeling sluggish Tuesday evening . . . markpkessinger Oct 2014 #94
It's not likely that he infected anyone else, I agree, except his girlfriend... TwilightGardener Oct 2014 #96
That's the last time I go rolling a few frames at E-bowl-a Lanes... johnfunk Oct 2014 #115
oh you grasswire Oct 2014 #117
One million New Yorkers vaguely thinking flamingdem Oct 2014 #5
lol Renew Deal Oct 2014 #48
It must be.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #49
He rode the A, 1, and L trains. hrmjustin Oct 2014 #79
He shoulda taken the CASH CAB! HereSince1628 Oct 2014 #80
LOL... n/t JimDandy Oct 2014 #97
For the Win. WilliamPitt Oct 2014 #98
This gave me a hardy laugh. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #116
I imagine those who bowled with him flamingdem Oct 2014 #2
I wonder ... was he contagious at that point? n/t RKP5637 Oct 2014 #6
That's my gripe with the protocol flamingdem Oct 2014 #7
Also flu season is coming. People are going to be sick, sneezing, fevers, etc. There are going to RKP5637 Oct 2014 #13
The ER is going to be busy! flamingdem Oct 2014 #22
A Visit for Chest Pains (w/o symptoms of a heart attack) LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #53
Glad she's okay flamingdem Oct 2014 #54
Thank you! LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #60
Very possible. Lochloosa Oct 2014 #8
I read an excellent article explaining the nature of the contagion Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #14
I think you might have seen this National Geographic article? RKP5637 Oct 2014 #17
no, I haven't seen that. I mean, before now. Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #21
... words can be difficult! lol RKP5637 Oct 2014 #25
I had read the same. And then today I saw a BBC article that showed it entering respiratory cells magical thyme Oct 2014 #23
how can that possibly be a coincidence? Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #24
it can be a coincidence, but considering that part of Africa has never had Ebola before magical thyme Oct 2014 #28
then there are the rumors about the vaccine developers Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #31
maybe someone at the bioweapons lab was unhappy with the moratorium magical thyme Oct 2014 #33
Anything is possible. Least likely possibility: ebola appeared out of nowhere. Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #36
hope they aren't working on a new small pox vaccine anytime soon. DeadEyeDyck Oct 2014 #126
eek Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #131
I guess it would enter respiratory cells eventually once it was in the bloodstream Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #27
the illustration showed it entering through an airway. which would be possible if somebody puked magical thyme Oct 2014 #37
contagiousness is on a continuum, as the viral load increases over time, so does magical thyme Oct 2014 #26
Excellent point! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2014 #32
I read somewhere that he'd had some (unnamed) symptoms since Tuesday. n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #11
I read that he wasn't feeling well for a day or two as well. nt magical thyme Oct 2014 #16
Then he wasn't really self monitoring flamingdem Oct 2014 #18
his girlfriend was put into quarantine earlier this evening magical thyme Oct 2014 #30
I gather the HCW at Bellevue find him unreliable Yo_Mama Oct 2014 #12
And he's a highly trained doctor flamingdem Oct 2014 #15
Pretty Darn Right on Point.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #58
Hmm flamingdem Oct 2014 #63
Risk Takers..... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #68
The cobbler's children have no shoes lapislzi Oct 2014 #122
What baffles me is that medical professionals can't seem to snagglepuss Oct 2014 #130
Somebody gets a headache, takes some advil, & before fever can go up, it has gone down. Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #29
Oh sure, but if you are self-monitoring you should be reporting that. Yo_Mama Oct 2014 #35
Many possibilities we can't know. Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #42
Exactly -- and hindsight, as they say, is 20/20 n/t markpkessinger Oct 2014 #95
He probably had a fever, called the CDC to ask if it was OK to go bowling, and TwilightGardener Oct 2014 #38
OMG. LisaL Oct 2014 #61
This is.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #64
+1 PADemD Oct 2014 #67
DUzy tomm2thumbs Oct 2014 #89
Perfect. MissB Oct 2014 #118
Well this is gonna flip people right the hell out. Damn. DeadLetterOffice Oct 2014 #3
Agree. appalachiablue Oct 2014 #59
Common sense does not apply PeoViejo Oct 2014 #10
Two words: Travelman Oct 2014 #19
Maybe Bowling Ball? defacto7 Oct 2014 #66
Both, but really.... Travelman Oct 2014 #71
"Third-degree case of the willies" WhiteAndNerdy Oct 2014 #119
Who goes bowling and does not get sweaty hands? PADemD Oct 2014 #70
That's what helps make that awesome "thwok!" sound when the TwilightGardener Oct 2014 #81
Who goes bowling and does not get sweaty hands? NJCher Oct 2014 #109
Ebowla shoes LeftInTX Oct 2014 #72
OMG!!...... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #75
Sounds like a DUzy to me... calimary Oct 2014 #84
Can't help it - laughing. 840high Oct 2014 #106
Thread winner! n/t Travelman Oct 2014 #128
Meanwhile, more proof that for-profit healthcare/pharm is a BAD BAD THING DeadLetterOffice Oct 2014 #20
That's that free market that will take care of everything as predicted lunasun Oct 2014 #45
How is the Health Care Free Market Thingy.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #73
"Only now is it undergoing the most basic safety tests in humans" < Cause it got to some white folk. jtuck004 Oct 2014 #101
Why New York? Why not a quiet cabin for a month? AngryAmish Oct 2014 #34
Um...maybe he LIVED in NYC? brooklynite Oct 2014 #39
Maybe if he lived there he might have noticed that many people live there AngryAmish Oct 2014 #43
well, you see, AngryAmish NJCher Oct 2014 #108
altruistic, which is when such a person might actually think about how their actions affect other(s) DeadLetterOffice Oct 2014 #120
yes, I do realize that NJCher Oct 2014 #129
true CullenBohannon Oct 2014 #83
He had apartment 840high Oct 2014 #107
Link to press conference Yo_Mama Oct 2014 #40
Bowling, Uber, subway ride, and it says took his clothes to a cleaner rainbow4321 Oct 2014 #41
drip, drip, drip heaven05 Oct 2014 #44
Your point is, what exactly? nt AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #46
Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #50
wow CullenBohannon Oct 2014 #47
Agree.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #99
how long can obama hold out against travel ban? jonjensen Oct 2014 #51
Not sure if this post should be replied to or not.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #104
doing stupid shit to appease ignorant repukes is not good strategy Skittles Oct 2014 #105
He must have gotten infected pretty close to his last day in Guinea HereSince1628 Oct 2014 #52
Really hoping his contacts test free of ebola flamingdem Oct 2014 #57
Yes, I do, too. HereSince1628 Oct 2014 #74
Oct 12 is when he stopped working. LisaL Oct 2014 #102
The average onset for the strain in this epidemic is in the 7-10 day range HereSince1628 Oct 2014 #123
So far we have a doctor, a nurse, a lab tech, and a medical reporter/ex-surgeon Man from Pickens Oct 2014 #55
These are risk takers flamingdem Oct 2014 #76
They are oath breakers Man from Pickens Oct 2014 #77
Amber Vinson reported feeling a bit weird (or something) deurbano Oct 2014 #85
That makes sense flamingdem Oct 2014 #88
Exactly. LisaL Oct 2014 #100
So let me understand you point gwheezie Oct 2014 #86
To be fair, the nurses/techs probably can't afford NOT to take their pre-arranged TwilightGardener Oct 2014 #87
see post 108 NJCher Oct 2014 #111
And still more than 100 times the number of people with Ebola in the US will die because LiberalArkie Oct 2014 #56
+1000 DeadLetterOffice Oct 2014 #121
Wishes of rapid healing for him. <3 to MSF doctors, nurses. uppityperson Oct 2014 #62
Great, my boyfriends brother janlyn Oct 2014 #82
I'm hoping it's not just PR spin deutsey Oct 2014 #90
This is bullshit, doctors should not be allowed to treat Ebola patients in other countries Reter Oct 2014 #91
Are you serious? LeftInTX Oct 2014 #112
Sorry. I hate it for the person. raven mad Oct 2014 #103
A Doctor Treating Ebola Patients DallasNE Oct 2014 #110
again, see post 108 NJCher Oct 2014 #114
Doctors Treating Ebola Patients in West Africa.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2014 #113
anyone who comes back from places like this santroy79 Oct 2014 #124
Until we start quarantine health care workers returning from Africa for 21 days adigal Oct 2014 #125
Too Bad He Returned By Way of Europe TomCADem Oct 2014 #127
It's simple to flag anyone from the worst countries nt adigal Oct 2014 #132

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
9. Yeah, but he really shouldn't have. He should have had family/friends do his
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:41 PM
Oct 2014

shopping and errands for him, self-quarantined. Instead, he went fucking bowling. Was that really necessary?

 

denem

(11,045 posts)
93. Don't laugh. Australia used a bowling alley for HIV education ad.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:26 PM
Oct 2014

When I read bowling alley
I immediately thought of the 1997 AIDS terror ad.






markpkessinger

(8,392 posts)
94. The article says he began feeling sluggish Tuesday evening . . .
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:29 PM
Oct 2014

. . . but didn't develop a fever until Thursday morning, when he immediately contacted officials. "Feeling sluggish" could be anything, and might not even have been recognized as a symptom. A person can only transmit the virus when he or she is displaying symptoms, so it is highly unlikely this doctor transmitted the virus to anyone else.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
96. It's not likely that he infected anyone else, I agree, except his girlfriend...
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:31 PM
Oct 2014

But there was the chance that nausea/vomiting could have occurred suddenly, while he was out and about on Wednesday.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
5. One million New Yorkers vaguely thinking
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:37 PM
Oct 2014

What train did he take last night.. Oh well I eata slice n fuggetaboutit.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
49. It must be....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:24 PM
Oct 2014

As instead of going in "self-isolation" after clear contact with Ebola patients, there definitely seems to be a large urge to jump on a plane or train instead being ALONE in a Automobile.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
80. He shoulda taken the CASH CAB!
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:06 PM
Oct 2014

I need a life-line!

NAME THE PREPATENT PERIOD OF EBOLA!

No I mean I really I think I need a life-line!!!!

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
2. I imagine those who bowled with him
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:36 PM
Oct 2014

Are rather concerned. The protocol seems lax if a fever can come on that fast.

RKP5637

(67,104 posts)
13. Also flu season is coming. People are going to be sick, sneezing, fevers, etc. There are going to
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:51 PM
Oct 2014

be a lot of false indicators IMO flooding resources.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
53. A Visit for Chest Pains (w/o symptoms of a heart attack)
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:36 PM
Oct 2014

for my Daughter last night at a large midwest hospital took seven hours before she was seen, with at least twelve folks wearing a mask in the ER. Yep, this flu season will be interesting indeed.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
60. Thank you!
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:44 PM
Oct 2014

She's doing fine now but will be following up with her primary care physician, because Mom said so .

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
14. I read an excellent article explaining the nature of the contagion
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:52 PM
Oct 2014

and why people who were exposed to someone in early
stages rarely contract it.

As I recall:

The virus does not invade the lungs and replicate there,
which is generally how 'airborne' viruses are spread, in
miniscule droplets that we expel when we speak, breathe,
cough. Flu, measles, etc.

The ebola virus invades the immune system, those specialized
cells, and replicates there. Not much if any virus in the lungs
or other organs until the final days when everything has
broken down and the blood is full of virus, everything is.

I'm sure there may be exceptions but this article was very
reassuring and I wish I could find it again.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
23. I had read the same. And then today I saw a BBC article that showed it entering respiratory cells
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:58 PM
Oct 2014

I'm hoping that some idiot reporter or graphic designer just grabbed an generic image for how viruses enter our systems and added in the word Ebola, which is most likely the case.

I've read some other things today that really bother me about this whole epidemic. Apparently we have a bioweapons research lab located in the same city in Guinea where the outbreak started.

And apparently we have something like 4 accidents/day at our various facilities, which recently led Obama to put a temporary moratorium on this supposedly defensive research.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
24. how can that possibly be a coincidence?
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:00 PM
Oct 2014
Apparently we have a bioweapons research lab located in the same city in Guinea where the outbreak started.
 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
28. it can be a coincidence, but considering that part of Africa has never had Ebola before
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:03 PM
Oct 2014

it does look suspicious. Especially considering the safety record.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
31. then there are the rumors about the vaccine developers
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:05 PM
Oct 2014

needing an outbreak to test their product and bypass FDA

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
33. maybe someone at the bioweapons lab was unhappy with the moratorium
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:07 PM
Oct 2014

it would only take one sociopath...

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
27. I guess it would enter respiratory cells eventually once it was in the bloodstream
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:02 PM
Oct 2014

but just as likely your hopeful theory, as the world is full
of idiot reporters who do those things probably four times
a day too. Bored reporters at the mercy of their idiocy.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
37. the illustration showed it entering through an airway. which would be possible if somebody puked
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:09 PM
Oct 2014

up you nose. While with projectile vomit that would be possible, it is pretty unlikely. So I'm leaning toward an idiot reporter.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
26. contagiousness is on a continuum, as the viral load increases over time, so does
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:01 PM
Oct 2014

the contagiousness.

However, it also is dependent on the immune system of the exposed person.

That is what concerns me about potentially exposed people not self-quarantining. They are assuming everybody they come in contact with is immunocompetent. But an oncology patient who's recently had chemo could have their immune system knocked for a loop. Just had one walk into our urgent care center with a white count of 1.7 (<=2.0 is critical).

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
18. Then he wasn't really self monitoring
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:55 PM
Oct 2014

He was doing wishful thinking? Bad for the contacts, some will lose three weeks.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
30. his girlfriend was put into quarantine earlier this evening
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:05 PM
Oct 2014

as soon as I read that, I figured the results were in.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
12. I gather the HCW at Bellevue find him unreliable
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:49 PM
Oct 2014

I don't think he had no fever until this morning and then it jumped to 103. I think he was out and didn't pay attention.

I hope the guy makes it, but this is the case we hoped never to have.

After this monitoring protocols are going to be jacked up again. A very bad day for NYC. Hopefully everything will work out, but they are going to have to go all out to ensure that they get there.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
15. And he's a highly trained doctor
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:53 PM
Oct 2014

Looks like humans are not truly able to self monitor - the urge to go out is too strong and people deny malaise when there's fun to be had.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
58. Pretty Darn Right on Point....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:42 PM
Oct 2014

The People that you think would know not to do --- i.e. HEALTH CARE WORKERS -- seem to not know or not care what to do at all. I.E. - Stop getting in situations of PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION while or after you treated on a one to one basis, a patient with Ebola. Amber Vinson -- ER Nurse who should've know better than to get on a darn plane and now this Doctor who thought it was a good idea to hop a BUSY NYC Subway instead of spending 21 days in "self-isolation".

If this mess spreads to the general public, Lawd help us....

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
63. Hmm
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:48 PM
Oct 2014

Maybe if they're willing to treat ebola patients they're risk takers - example I would not work with ebola patients and I would hole up if infectious with even a cold!

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
68. Risk Takers.....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:50 PM
Oct 2014

Probably. The problem is these Doctors and Nurses should know better one would think. Or...maybe, just maybe they are risk taking with everyone else lives including their own.

lapislzi

(5,762 posts)
122. The cobbler's children have no shoes
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:47 AM
Oct 2014

Many of the doctors I've worked with were the absolute worst about taking care of themselves. It was often a case of "do as I say, not as I do." One of the finest doctors I ever knew (long time ago) smoked like a chimney, but would snatch the smoke out of your mouth and stamp on it.

One of my nursing friends used to say they'd take bets when a child with a burst appendix presented in the ER--that it was a doctor's kid. She was proud of her winnings.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
130. What baffles me is that medical professionals can't seem to
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:46 AM
Oct 2014

understand that managing possible panic is as important as managing the disease. How much better it would be if the story today was that doctor who isolated himself as a precaution has now been diagnosed with the disease.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
29. Somebody gets a headache, takes some advil, & before fever can go up, it has gone down.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:04 PM
Oct 2014

That's one way people might overlook early symptoms.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
35. Oh sure, but if you are self-monitoring you should be reporting that.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:08 PM
Oct 2014

Well, it's inexplicable, but real.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
42. Many possibilities we can't know.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:12 PM
Oct 2014

If I were a Doctor Without Borders coming back to the
USA after weeks or months with ebola, I might party hard.
(Well, I wouldn't personally, but I might if I were much
younger.) Just a couple of careless days and you could
overlook early symptoms.

I think we all have a deep respect for them and their work;
I hope the person survives and everyone learns.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
38. He probably had a fever, called the CDC to ask if it was OK to go bowling, and
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:10 PM
Oct 2014

they said, "Sure. Take as many modes of public transport as possible, and make sure to rent your shoes and bowling ball."

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
64. This is....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:48 PM
Oct 2014
.......

And the worst part, this could be in the probability of being on the side of truth, considering the CDC's prior actions in these matters.

Travelman

(708 posts)
71. Both, but really....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:53 PM
Oct 2014

...bowling shoes are already pretty skeevy as it stands.

Yeesh. I've given myself a third-degree case of the willies now....

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
81. That's what helps make that awesome "thwok!" sound when the
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:12 PM
Oct 2014

Last edited Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:19 PM - Edit history (1)

ball/thumb suction is broken.

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
20. Meanwhile, more proof that for-profit healthcare/pharm is a BAD BAD THING
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:56 PM
Oct 2014
Almost a decade ago, scientists from Canada and the United States reported that they had created a vaccine that was 100 percent effective in protecting monkeys against the Ebola virus. The results were published in a respected journal, and health officials called them exciting. The researchers said tests in people might start within two years, and a product could potentially be ready for licensing by 2010 or 2011.

It never happened. The vaccine sat on a shelf. Only now is it undergoing the most basic safety tests in humans — with nearly 5,000 people dead from Ebola and an epidemic raging out of control in West Africa.

Its development stalled in part because Ebola is rare, and until now, outbreaks had infected only a few hundred people at a time. But experts also acknowledge that the lack of follow-up on such a promising candidate reflects a broader failure to produce medicines and vaccines for diseases that afflict poor countries. Most drug companies have resisted spending the enormous sums needed to develop products useful mostly to countries with little ability to pay.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/health/without-lucrative-market-potential-ebola-vaccine-was-shelved-for-years.html

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
73. How is the Health Care Free Market Thingy....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:54 PM
Oct 2014

Working out at the moment...while Trained Doctors and Nurses jump at the opportunity to hop on public transportation directly or not to far after treating patients with Ebola.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
101. "Only now is it undergoing the most basic safety tests in humans" < Cause it got to some white folk.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:46 PM
Oct 2014

Can't have that.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
34. Why New York? Why not a quiet cabin for a month?
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:07 PM
Oct 2014

Lay in a bunch of food and Netflix.

Nooooop, this asshole had to go to the denseest city in America.

He wanted to be a hero. Big man, you. You might have killed your girlfriend and a bunch of other people.

Jerk.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
43. Maybe if he lived there he might have noticed that many people live there
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:13 PM
Oct 2014

I have visited NYC sevetal times. One thing I did notice was the many people there.

Would it not be safer to be away from people, especually since you might have a very deadly infectious disease?

NJCher

(35,658 posts)
108. well, you see, AngryAmish
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:02 PM
Oct 2014

You have a thinking error going here.

Your first error is in thinking that a highly educated person in the medical field might have common sense, and what's more (error 2), might be altruistic, which is when such a person might actually think about how their actions affect other people.

This is a far-fetched proposition, indeed.

How long have you been here on Planet Earth? Couple weeks?

I will assume so. Now, just to bring you up to date on how things work here on Planet Earth, or at least the USA, we have a profit-oriented system. This tends to attract people who are interested in $$$$$, not their fellow human beings.

I did so enjoy your line of thought, however, but it's just not the way things work in the most fiercely capitalistic and individualistic country in the world.


Cher



DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
120. altruistic, which is when such a person might actually think about how their actions affect other(s)
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:40 AM
Oct 2014

You do realize this doctor was exposed while volunteering his time to take care of very sick people that most of the world doesn't give a shit about.

NJCher

(35,658 posts)
129. yes, I do realize that
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:01 AM
Oct 2014

He doesn't realize there's an additional step, and that is making sure you don't come home and spread the virus around your own city.

How hard is that to understand?


Cher

rainbow4321

(9,974 posts)
41. Bowling, Uber, subway ride, and it says took his clothes to a cleaner
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:11 PM
Oct 2014

He and his stuff have been alllllll over the place. Online article reported about his clothes and also that the bowling alley has been closed.

Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #46)

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
99. Agree....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:41 PM
Oct 2014

No matter how much he wanted to "hang out" on day eight post contact with Ebola Patients in West Africa....he should have STAY THE HECK HOME on Self-Isolation. Now, who knows who is infected yet. Remember, we have another 21 days to find out IF any NYCers in contact with Mr. Doctor hanging out at the Bowling Alley while taking the A, 1, L Trains and a Uber car, plus dropping his clothes off at the CLEANERS -- has really infected anyone else.

You know, to the rest of New York City's innocent residents and all....

 

jonjensen

(168 posts)
51. how long can obama hold out against travel ban?
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:32 PM
Oct 2014

democrat candidates are being blasted with republicans "vote republican or die from ebola!" how long can democratic candidates hold out against travel ban? cdc head didn't help by telling republican congressman that travel ban would hurt west africa's fragile economies. It looks bad for democratic candidates.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
104. Not sure if this post should be replied to or not....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:51 PM
Oct 2014

As some of the language in the post is highly questionable, however.....excuse moi as I clearly point out the obvious:

WHERE ARE THE REPUBLICANS SCREAMING FROM ROOFTOPS -- coming back off of the Vacation-Getting P.A.I.D. while doing really NOTHING Recess since the end of August (Mind You) --- for their fellow Federal Elected GOPer Co-Horts nationwide to come back to D.C. and deal with this Ebola Outbreak?

Oh, yeah.....it's not happening at all...

So CEASE and DESIST the Obama blame game. We have a Republican Speaker of the House that's too busy getting a updated spray tan than taking five minutes to deal with Ebola in the USA.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
52. He must have gotten infected pretty close to his last day in Guinea
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:32 PM
Oct 2014

How horrible would that be?

and just to ad insult to infection...he goes from a returning hero, a humanity loving volunteer, to an imagined and despised vector sick with an illness that kills half the people it infects.

I can't imagine the emotional roller coaster of that...while waiting for the symptoms to rise to full crisis.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
57. Really hoping his contacts test free of ebola
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:41 PM
Oct 2014

If not people will freak out - it was great Duncan's family are okay, was it lucky?

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
74. Yes, I do, too.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:55 PM
Oct 2014

I was thinking about the behavior of close friends when we were out bowling.

Way to many hands going between bags of snacks and mouths to not be creeped out.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
102. Oct 12 is when he stopped working.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:47 PM
Oct 2014

Vast majority develop symptoms within 21 days. So it hasn't been anywhere near 21 days for him.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
123. The average onset for the strain in this epidemic is in the 7-10 day range
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:19 AM
Oct 2014

Average is a measure of central tendency the middle is associated with 50%
95% who get it get within 21 days...
98 % who get ill do so within 42 days

A person can pick whatever they want as a reference for their thinking, but average is also associated with the concept of what is typical. Thinking around the arithmetic mean and +/- 1 stdev is a common way of thinking...I'd suggest more common that thinking in terms of a 95% or 98% confidence interval.


I understand the nature of the reported variability, but I think I'll be keeping my thinking around 'average', thank-you.

 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
55. So far we have a doctor, a nurse, a lab tech, and a medical reporter/ex-surgeon
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:39 PM
Oct 2014

What is with these people that they think nothing of exposing others to the risk of highly fatal diseases?

Makes me think that it is the "me first and only" attitude that is so prevalent in this country which is the disease that weakens our collective immune system. All these people should have known not to travel and not to take the chance that they might infect others. None of them have shown any signs of remorse for their actions.

This is the real sickness in this country. Nobody gives a shit about anybody but me, myself, and I.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
76. These are risk takers
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:58 PM
Oct 2014

Willing to work with the very sick. My sense is that they follow protocol more than common sense and protocol needs to be tightened.

 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
77. They are oath breakers
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:00 PM
Oct 2014

the Hippocratic Oath is the very basis of medical ethics - "First, do no harm."

None of them have the slightest excuse to have taken any risk with other peoples' health. That is criminal negligence in my book.

deurbano

(2,894 posts)
85. Amber Vinson reported feeling a bit weird (or something)
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:17 PM
Oct 2014

before developing a fever... and this guy reported feeling sluggish before developing a fever. So, maybe those developing the protocols need to consider these somewhat vague symptoms as more concerning-- more like red flags-- than they seem to have been previously regarded. (I mean for people so directly at risk.)

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
87. To be fair, the nurses/techs probably can't afford NOT to take their pre-arranged
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:18 PM
Oct 2014

vacations and trips, they're not exactly swimming in vacation days and probably didn't foresee that taking care of Duncan would result in having to cancel, get no refund, lose a lot of money, and disappoint family. Remember that they didn't seek to care for Duncan, he came to them and they didn't want to refuse to care for him, certainly. Doctors, however, especially the ones that CHOSE to treat ebola patients, should be expected to set an example. But regardless, of course, they all should have been warned to lay low for a few weeks.

NJCher

(35,658 posts)
111. see post 108
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:13 PM
Oct 2014
What is with these people that they think nothing of exposing others to the risk of highly fatal diseases?



Cher

LiberalArkie

(15,713 posts)
56. And still more than 100 times the number of people with Ebola in the US will die because
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:39 PM
Oct 2014

they did not get a simple flu vaccine. And that crap does mutate.

janlyn

(735 posts)
82. Great, my boyfriends brother
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:13 PM
Oct 2014

is moving back home from Manhattan on the 31st. Now I have a legitimate reason for not socializing with him! Whoohoo!! Thanks Ebola!

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
90. I'm hoping it's not just PR spin
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:22 PM
Oct 2014

but this press conference with NYC leaders and doctors seems to be demonstrating the big difference between the hands-on NYC approach vs. the laissez faire approach in Texas.

I'll say this again, though: if the world community had come together to contain Ebola when it first broke out months ago, none of this wouldn't even be an issue now.

But...austerity!

The invisible hand of the market is failing us (has been for some time, actually). We need real hands working together to build up social structures that benefit everyone's quality of life, not just a few greedy fuckheads' bottom line.

 

Reter

(2,188 posts)
91. This is bullshit, doctors should not be allowed to treat Ebola patients in other countries
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:23 PM
Oct 2014

Especially where it's an epidemic. Stay here and help or don't come back. This didn't have to happen.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
110. A Doctor Treating Ebola Patients
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:07 PM
Oct 2014

Should have been smart enough to put himself in self-isolation for sure. Kind of a case of a hero turning into a goat. They need to stay in Africa for about 21 days before departing elsewhere on public transportation. Indeed, he should have admitted himself into isolation on Tuesday for 3-4 days to see if it passed or not. People need to be smarter about this.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
113. Doctors Treating Ebola Patients in West Africa....
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:15 PM
Oct 2014
"They need to stay in Africa for about 21 days before departing elsewhere on public transportation."


One would think, this is not that hard to do. Either way, thank you for saying the OBVIOUS and too bad these so-called "health-care" workers can't figure this one out on their own.

Stay away from Public Transportation, PERIOD for 21 days if you are exposed to an Ebola patient!
 

santroy79

(193 posts)
124. anyone who comes back from places like this
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:00 AM
Oct 2014

should be locked up until they are cleared. Letting these people come back and just walk the streets is a joke. What the hell is wrong with this country?

The guy is walking the streets of NYC!!!! are you freaking serious???

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
125. Until we start quarantine health care workers returning from Africa for 21 days
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:09 AM
Oct 2014

I'm stocking up by buying canned food every time I go to the grocery store before there's panic. The worst case is I have a lot of canned food. And I'm NOT an alarmist.

TomCADem

(17,387 posts)
127. Too Bad He Returned By Way of Europe
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:56 AM
Oct 2014

Your proposed quarantine would have missed him, particularly in light of the European layover.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html?_r=0

Dr. Spencer had been working with Doctors Without Borders in Guinea treating Ebola patients, and completed his work on Oct. 12, Dr. Bassett said. He flew out of the country on Oct. 14, traveling via Europe, and arrived in New York on Oct. 17.
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