Israeli Government Crumbles; New Election Planned

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

JERUSALEM — Dec 2, 2014, 3:01 PM ET
By JOSEF FEDERMAN Associated Press

Israel's divided government fell apart Tuesday as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu fired two rebellious Cabinet ministers and called for a new election more than two years ahead of schedule.

Netanyahu's announcement plunges the country into a bitter campaign that seemed unlikely just a few days earlier. The election, expected to be held early next year, would come at a time of growing violence between Palestinians and Jews and deepening despair over the prospects for peace.

In a nationally televised address, Netanyahu said he had ordered the dismissals of Finance Minister Yair Lapid and Justice Minister Tzipi Livni. The pair, who head separate centrist parties, had emerged as his leading critics.

Netanyahu accused the two of trying to stage a "putsch," saying he could "not tolerate opposition from within the government." He said he would present legislation in parliament to dissolve the government and to hold elections "as soon as possible."

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israel-appears-road-early-elections-27296612

[azurnoir]

1. geez a Democratic government that can't tolerate opposition from within

wonder what would happen if Obama took that stance

[Kurska]

5. Within the government coalition

Ya know, the people who form a volunteer partnership following a democratic vote to work together to govern. The thing that doesn't function at all if the parties find they can no longer work together. But go on and misrepresent till your heart is content.

Ignore the fact this exact situation happens is other parliamentary democracies all the time. However, you can spin Israel in the most negative light possible is the way to go.

[azurnoir]

6. I wondered who wouldbe doing the 'explaining'

however the coalition includes Arab parties, and Leftist parties also seems the coalition manages to function despite them, unless of course you to posit that Arabs and Leftists do not count in the Israeli government?

[Kurska]

7. You need explaining honestly

You don't seem to understand the parliamentary system of government, particularly this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-third_government_of_Israel

That is what they are talking about when they say the government and governing coalition.

The government coalition is the parties that join together to form a parliamentary majority. This coalition is a centre-right coalition that does not include any leftist parties and the Arab nationalist parties (which are anti-zionist and therefore don't even consider joining coalitions with the zionist parties, which is nearly every party and without whom it would be impossible to form a governing coalition).

[azurnoir]

9. Thanks for confirming that Arab (minority) Parties simply do not count in Israel's 'democracy'

oh and I do understand the parliamentary form of government but thanks

[Kurska]

12. They vote on legislation, they just aren't part of the governing coaltion

Again, because they refuse to be coalition partners with Zionist parties. What you are saying is the equivalent of saying Democratic senators don't count in our democracy, because they don't control the chamber or pick the senate majority leader. Effectively once senators are seated we have a very similar system, except we directly elect a chief executive (who also picks his own cabinet, unlike in Israel where these positions are handed out to coalition partners) and only have two parties.

You either horribly misunderstand parliamentary democracy or are willfully misrepresenting the system to make Israel look as bad as possible.

[karynnj]

11. You misunderstood the answer

The leftist and Arab MK are NOT in "the government" in the way Netanyahu is using the word. They are in the opposition. This is a Parliamentary system. After the election, someone needs to form a government that contains at least a threshold number of MPs. No Israeli party will get anywhere near the members needed alone - so they need to form a coalition.

Being in the coalition is being in the "government", but they still are independent parties as well. That makes Netanyahu's comments strange -- almost as if he thinks of the entire coalition as his "cabinet". There is no good comparison to the US, the one you made above equates the coalition to the entire legislative and executive branch --- that would be the entire Knesset - ie both the "government" and the opposition. However, it is not the same as thinking of the cabinet - where a Secretary really can't take a public position against the President's on any thing that is part of his department.

I assume that there are some who understand Israel better and will correct this if wrong.

[azurnoir]

15. No I did not misunderstand a thing perhaps my reply was misunderstood

[Kurska]

23. You made the claim leftist parties were in the government coalition in a center-right government.

You clearly didn't understand or didn't know something about either parliamentary democracy or the Israeli government.

There is no shame in that, but continuing to dance around the issue stemming from a basic misunderstanding of a form of government isn't becoming.

[azurnoir]

24. No I made no such claim or cut and paste the quote with a link please :)

[Kurska]

27. Right here

"however the coalition includes Arab parties, and Leftist parties also seems the coalition manages to function despite them, unless of course you to posit that Arabs and Leftists do not count in the Israeli government?"

Which is derived from an apparent fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be "part of the government" in a parliamentary democracy (hint in this case it means being part of the governing coalition though you seem to misunderstand that aswell). Also there aren't "Arab parties" there are Arab nationalist and anti-zionist parties. Other parties have and have had Arab members and draw Arab votes as well. Given many of such parties are Islamist and 20% of Israel's Arab population is Christian or Druze, it seem especially inaccurate to call them such. Even those specific parties count, their votes matter and they compose around 10% of the Israeli parliament (though they refuse to try and form coalitions with Zionist parties, which is their right).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset

On edit: sorry broke the link accidentally at first

[azurnoir]

28. and you pointed out that minorities do not count in Bibi's coalition

thanks albeit I misspoke about the coalition sometimes that's an unfortunate necessity

[Kurska]

29. You know, except the Druze.

Or the African jews and Mizrahi Jews .But apparently, the only minorities in Israel are Sunni Muslim arabs. Who by the way, as I said all belong to parties that refuse to join any coalition that has a Zionist party in it (even far left ones like Meretz, who by the way has an Arab as one of their 6 Knesset members). If you're saying Israel needs to forcibly make the Arab nationalist parties join the governing coalition just to be inclusive, that seems a bit silly.

Again, just highlighting your lack of understanding of the subject matter. I like how you don't even dispute your initial statement and rush to judgment were factually wrong.

[azurnoir]

30. No I am highlighting the way minorities are treated in Israel as seen here

Brother of slain Druze cop decries ‘Jewish state’ bill

http://www.timesofisrael.com/brother-of-slain-druze-cop-decries-jewish-state-bill/#ixzz3KoQZfS00

and Mizrahi Jews are no longer a minority in Israel but you say being more inclusive of Arabs is "silly", apparently so does Bibi and his rightwing coalition

[Kurska]

31. No, I'm saying demanding that Zionist parties somehow form a coalition with anti-zionist parties

That refuse to form a coalition with them under any circumstance is ridiculous.

Would really like to point out this entire exchange started with you being objectively wrong about basic facts of the Israeli government, yet you continue to act like some kind of expert.

[azurnoir]

32. No this exchange started because I made a casual comment

but please do keep up the insulting rhetoric oh BTW read down thread too where last night I did comment on what this actually has to do with the Israeli government and it does not take an expert to know this is all about Lapid and Livni refusing to back the Jewish State bill

sometimes its good to countenance insults from some parties if they make clear the point one is making

[Kurska]

33. Oh come on, you made a statement it was wrong admit it.

I quoted you and I bolded the part where you did it. There is no contesting your statement was false.

There is nothing wrong with making an innocent mistake, everyone makes them. Continuing to deny it is to the point of absurdity is ridiculous though and that is what makes it really hard for me to take you seriously right now.

If I'm dismissive, it is because I'm tired of attempts to spin this any way possible to avoid entertaining the thought you were *gasp* mistaken on something.

[azurnoir]

34. my original statement was about Obama it's the first comment and no innocence/guilt was involved

except in the minds of some

[Kurska]

35. Which was based on a misunderstanding of what "government" means in Israel

Which you then doubled down on by claiming parties that were not in the government (government coalition) were in the government coalition. The first part can easily be reckoned to confusion as to an admittedly confusing concept when applied in foreign contexts. When your double down was shown to be demonstratively false and you continued to protest in favor of it is when this breached the point of honest mistake.

[azurnoir]

36. well that was your interpretatiion and I went with it and you replied admirably too pointing out how

non 'Zionist' parties really have no voice in the Israeli government, you seem to forget the subject of the thread is 2 MK's being fired for opposing Israel's Jewish State bill now perhaps you can see the connect between an already noninclusive governmental structure despite claims of being otherwise and that bill?

[Kurska]

37. Non-zionist means they think Israel shouldn't exist.

Tell me how parties that have as disparate an opinion as "we should exist" vs. "we should not exist" ought to go about forming a governing coalition.

Regardless, nowhere in your post do you even begin to acknowledge the mistake that you still have not. This desperate deflection and jumping to other topics is really getting old now.

Actually so is this conversation.

Okay you win, you're perfect, never made an error in your life. Have a nice night.

[azurnoir]

38. that's a rather narrow view either/or view IMO one does not have to be a Zionist

to believe Israel can/should exist

[Kurska]

39. Zionism is the belief Israel should exist as a homeland for the Jews.

These parties oppose that.

They are anti-zionist and in fact they describe themselves as such.

Really don't get your objection here, but okay. Israel as anything but a Jewish homeland isn't Israel, it is something else. Not saying that other nationalities can't live there and enjoy full citizenship, but it should always be a homeland and redoubt for Jewish people.

FYI, the Palestinians ought to get one too next door.

[azurnoir]

40. all 3 Arab parties support a 2 state solution and only 1 of the 3 defines itself as non-Zionist

United Arab List/Ta'al

The party supports the creation of a Palestinian State in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital; and equal rights for Arab citizens of Israel.

Its constituency consists mostly of religious or nationalist Israeli Arabs, and enjoys particular popularity among the Bedouin – in the 2009 elections, 80% of residents of Bedouin communities voted for the party.[6] The Islamic Movement also operates in poor Arab towns and villages, as well as in Bedouin settlements, to mobilize voters. The southern faction of the Islamic Movement is now the dominant force in the party, whilst other factions include the Arab National Party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_List

Balad

Balad is a political party[7] whose stated purpose is the "struggle to transform the state of Israel into a democracy for all its citizens, irrespective of national or ethnic identity".[8] It opposes the idea of Israel as a solely Jewish state, and supports its recasting as a binational state.

Balad also advocates that the state of Israel recognize Palestinian Arabs as a national minority, entitled to all rights that come with that status including autonomy in education, culture and media.[8] Since the party's formation, it has objected to every proposed state budget on the grounds that they have discriminated against the Arab population.

The party supports creation of two states based on pre-1967 borders, with the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem to constitute a Palestinian state[9] and the implementation of UN Resolution 194 regarding the right of return to Palestinian refugees.

Balad describes itself as a "democratic progressive national party for the Palestinian citizens of Israel".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balad_%28political_party%29

Hadash

The party supports evacuation of all Israeli settlements, a complete withdrawal by Israel from all territories occupied as a result of the Six-Day War, and the establishment of a Palestinian state in those territories. It also supports the right of return or compensation for Palestinian refugees. In addition to issues of peace and security, Hadash is also known for being active on social and environmental issues.[5]

Hadash defines itself as a non-Zionist party, originally in keeping with Marxist opposition to nationalism. It calls for recognition of Palestinian Arabs as a national minority within Israel.[6]

Hadash shifted to a more Arab nationalist appeal after running on a joint list with Ta'al in 2003.[7] Avirama Golan of the Haaretz wrote in 2007 that Hadash has "succumbed to the separatist-nationalist and populist stream ... and chosen to turn its back on a social and civil agenda in favor of questions related to Palestinian nationalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadash

[Kurska]

41. Actually two them describe themselves as non-zionist or anti-zionist

Hadash and Balad describe themselves as anti-zionist or non-zionist. However, you are right that United Arab List explicitly does not describe themselves as anti-zionist. I find it somewhat ironic that parties would advocate for a Palestinian state, but oppose an Israeli one (such as Balad does).

I made a mistake though in regards to Arab list. I'm willing to admit that. Though somehow, I doubt they would be willing to enter into government with a zionist party. Call it a hunch.

[24601]

8. Two of the top four cabinet members (Defense, Justice) have "resigned". The Israeli PM actually

controls legislation. Our Chief Executive can't change the law, only uphold it.

[azurnoir]

10. No they according to Israeli media were fired for disagreeing with Netanyahu

those would be Lapid (yesh atid) and Livni (hatnua)

Netanyahu announces elections after firing key ministers

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4598871,00.html

[former9thward]

14. Obama did take that stance.

The last three Defense Secretaries were forced out because they did not agree with Obama. Nothing happens in our system because we don't have a parliamentary government.

[azurnoir]

16. Gates resigned and was awarded Presidential Medal of Freedom

Panetta also resigned the only one that comes close to being fired was Hagel whom according to Obama was not up to dealing with a threat such as ISIS

[former9thward]

18. Did you read Gate's book or Panetta's?

They were fed up with Oval office micromanaging. Everyone in DC "resigns". It just the way they do things. That way they get the Medal of Freedom later on for being good soldiers. Obama had nothing but praise for Hagel at the end even as White House underlings were trying to spread dirt in the press about him.

[azurnoir]

19. such tell all books are frequently written after the fact

they're good money makers, especially for eager and willing audiences

[former9thward]

21. Of course they are written after the fact.

When would they be written? The White House never disputed any of the facts brought out in either book. The fact a book is a money maker does not make it wrong. Obama has made a few bucks off books himself.

[azurnoir]

25. and they were eagerly gobbled up by the Obama as Hitler Obama as Dictator Obama Imperialist crowd

[snooper2]

2. who does that loser think he is Putin

[GeorgeGist]

3. Bye Bye Bibi?

[JDPriestly]

22. Probably not.

I have long wondered why Netanyahu is so popular in Israel.

Then my husband and I watched a movie on Entebbe. (We don't watch TV. We watch all sorts of movies.)

Seems Netanyahu's brother was killed in the Entebbe raid in which the Israeli's freed hostages from Idi Amin's Uganda.

Yonatan "Yoni" Netanyahu (Hebrew: יוֹנָתָן "יוֹנִי" נְתַנְיָהוּ; March 13, 1946 – July 4, 1976), was the commander of the elite Israeli army commando unit Sayeret Matkal. He was the only Israeli soldier killed in action during Operation Entebbe in Uganda.

He was awarded the Medal of Distinguished Service for his conduct in the Yom Kippur War. His younger brother, Benjamin Netanyahu, is the current Prime Minister of Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonatan_Netanyahu

Let me refresh memories on the horrible circumstances that led to the Israeli raid on Entebbe.

Operation Entebbe was a counter-terrorist hostage-rescue mission carried out by commandos of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) at Entebbe Airport in Uganda on 4 July 1976.[6] A week earlier, on 27 June, an Air France plane with 248 passengers was hijacked by a hijacker of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – External Operations (PFLP-EO) under orders of Wadie Haddad, who had earlier broken away from the mainstream PFLP of George Habash.[7] The PFLP-EO hijackers consisted of two Palestinians and two members of the German Revolutionary Cells. The hijackers had the stated objective to free 40 Palestinian and pro-Palestinian militants imprisoned in Israel and 13 prisoners in four other countries in exchange for the hostages.[8] The flight, that had originated in Tel Aviv with destination of Paris, was diverted after a stopover in Athens via Tripoli to Entebbe, the main airport of Uganda. The local government supported the hijackers and dictator Idi Amin personally welcomed them. After moving all hostages from the airplane to a disused airport building, the hijackers separated the Israelis from the larger group and forced them into a separate room.[9][10][11] Over the following two days, 148 non-Israeli hostages were released and flown out to Paris.[10][11][12] Some 94 mainly Israeli passengers, along with the 12-member Air France crew, remained as hostages and were threatened with death.[13][14]

The IDF acted on intelligence provided by the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad. The hijackers threatened to kill the hostages if their prisoner release demands were not met. This threat led to the planning of the rescue operation.[15] These plans included preparation for armed resistance from Ugandan military troops.[16]

The operation took place at night. Israeli transport planes carried 100 commandos over 2,500 miles (4,000 km) to Uganda for the rescue operation. The operation, which took a week of planning, lasted 90 minutes. 102 hostages were rescued. Five Israeli commandos were wounded and one, the unit commander, Lt. Col. Yonatan Netanyahu, was killed. All the hijackers, three hostages and 45 Ugandan soldiers were killed, and thirty (some say 11[4][5]) Soviet-built MiG-17s and MiG-21s of Uganda's air force were destroyed.[3] Kenyan sources supported Israel, and in the aftermath of the operation Idi Amin issued orders to retaliate and slaughter several hundred Kenyans present in Uganda.[17]

Operation Entebbe, which had the military codename Operation Thunderbolt, is sometimes referred to retroactively as Operation Jonathan in memory of the unit's leader, Yonatan Netanyahu. He was the older brother of Benjamin Netanyahu, the current Prime Minister of Israel.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe

[sadoldgirl]

4. I wonder what he is hoping for?

Yesterday evening I heard on MSNBC that the latest poll bring Bibi
down to 38%.

For what exactly are those "centrist" parties standing?

[karynnj]

13. He is likely hoping that - out of fear - he will increase his majority

and that the two parties he threw out will lose support. There are a large number of articles in Haaretz - all different points of view, but one thing all seem to imply is that Netanyahu wanted this early election because his coalition is not viable and there is no way with the current Members of Knesset to form any viable government.

[azurnoir]

17. currently Bibi has 3 other members of his coaltion jockeying for his position

Avigdor Lieberman, Moshe Feiglin, and Naftali Bennett his firing of Lapid and Livni was presumably some sort of show of his strength and resolve or some such

[sadoldgirl]

20. If Bibi's support is really slipping

as reported, who would gain from this,do you think?
Especially considering the French support from the MPs
for the Palestinians?

[azurnoir]

26. The extreme right in Israel

IMO that's why Bibi neded a show of resolve by firing Lapid and Livni

[Blue_Tires]

42. Netanyahu is purging the moderates