Russia dismisses new US sanctions as useless
Source: AP-Excite
By NATALIYA VASILYEVA
MOSCOW (AP) — Russia on Saturday dismissed new U.S. sanctions as useless and said it was poised to wait as long as it takes for the U.S. to recognize its historic right to the Crimean peninsula.
Following several rounds of sanctions earlier this year, President Barack Obama on Friday approved new restrictions on Crimea which Russia annexed in March after a hastily called referendum.
The Russian foreign ministry on Saturday expressed regret that "the United States and Canada still cannot get over the results of a free vote in Crimea in March," the referendum that was condemned by the international community as illegal and held under the guns of Russian troops.
Canada on Friday announced travel bans for dozens of individuals as well as restrictions on the export of technology used in Russia's oil industry.
FULL story at link.
Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20141220/eu--russia-sanctions-dada79ada6.html
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
KG
(28,751 posts)
Bosonic
(3,746 posts)
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Oh no, no, the sanctions are having no effect. It is the United State's fault.
DallasNE
(7,402 posts)
Spooky69
(30 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)DFW
(54,338 posts)If the sanctions aren't bothering you, then молчите (shut up)!. The louder you have to yell that they aren't bothering you, the more obvious it is that they are hurting badly. For Pete (-r the Great)'s sake, hasn't Putin learned ANYTHING from his KGB days? Russians have known how to read between their government's propaganda lines since Stalin. In the meantime, so have we.
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)someone else's property.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)While Crimea was given over to Ukraine in a night of drinking (or whatever influenced that one man decision); it was never what Crimeans wanted. They fought against it when the USSR broke up. They were given a compromise of autonomy and their own government. Corrupt judges changed that constitution (thus the option in the election to stay with Ukraine under the original constitution) and there has been continual contention.
For those who know the TRUTH that this happened is no surprise.
If you believe the spin otherwise you are allowing yourself to be taken for a ride and lied to.
The public is also being lied to on *why* this is all happening. It pretty much does not matter what Russia does, because this is about destroying the push to competitive economies and currencies and the continued monopoly of the dollar. We can't take down China, which is also involved in moving toward a more diverse world currency market; so Russia is the best option to take down BRICS and hope to keep the inevitable from happening.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Par for the course, I guess.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)If you choose to accept the shallow reporting of the tabloid media than don't be surprised when historical events are missing from your understanding.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Russia proposed transferring Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 to celebrate the 300th anniversary of Moscow's ties with Kiev. Russia proposed it, and Ukraine agreed to it; Ukraine didn't "annex" shit.
When the time came for the USSR to break apart, Crimea voted the same as the rest of Ukraine to secede from the USSR as part of Ukraine. They were granted autonomous status, and Russia agreed at least once to respect the fact Crimea was a part of Ukraine.
Russia then violated their agreement and forcibly annexed the peninsula.
Seller's remorse is not a legal justification for an invasion.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Have you ever spent time in the region? It always surprises me how our countrymen are so quick to pronounce themselves experts of things they have little personal experience or study with, because they "saw it explained on TV".
Our media is atrocious, and they will mislead your intellect if you accept their shallow reporting as in any way authoritative.
Be sure to read my other post and the link to wikipedia. It pretty much settles which version is creative.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)There are times and places to discuss the place of Crimea within Ukraine or Russia, but Russia, as it is so often want to do, decided to make the decision for everyone else in the region by force.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:14 AM - Edit history (1)
I will post it again.
These are not debatable facts. This is the history. In my opinion there should eventually be a replay of the vote with international monitors to settle it. But the narrative is extremely political and ignorant of what really happened. The referendum was called not by Putin; it was actually called by the legitimate (voted in) duma of Crimea (they still had their own parliment). There were not guns all over the street intimidating people. The situation on the ground was less intimidating than the Ukraine election a couple of months ago. It was an emotional and indeed fearful period, but Crimeans were not afraid at all of the Russian presence.
Under "Ukraine Period" Heading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_background_of_the_2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine
This was followed by a 1992 vote by the Crimean parliament to hold a referendum on independence from Ukraine, which spawned a two-year crisis over the status of Crimea. At the same time, the State Duma of the Russian Federation voted to void the cession of Crimea to Ukraine. In June of the same year, the Ukrainian government in Kiev voted to give Crimea a large amount autonomy as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea within Ukraine. Despite this, fighting between the Crimean government, Russian government, and Ukrainian government continued. In 1994, Russian nationalist Yuri Meshkov won the 1994 Crimean presidential election, and implemented the earlier approved referendum on the status of Crimea. 1.3 million people voted in this referendum, 78.4% of whom supported greater autonomy from Ukraine, whilst 82.8% supported allowing dual Russian-Ukrainian citizenship. Later in that same year, the status of Crimea as part of Ukraine was recognised by Russia, which pledged to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in the Budapest Memorandum. This treaty was also signed by the United States, United Kingdom, and France. Ukraine revoked the Constitution of Crimea and abolished the office of President of Crimea in 1995. Crimea was granted a new constitution in 1998, which granted lesser autonomy than the previous one.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Second, history major with a particular interest in Russian and Soviet history because of my own family's history.
I'm very well aware of the popular attitudes in Crimea about Russia and Ukraine. I'm also very well aware that Russia ceded Crimea to Ukraine, and fifty years later, signed an agreement with them to respect Crimea's place. They violated that agreement. Russia fucked the vote for the next several years through their invasion and occupation.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)... in violation of sovereignty and treaty? I mean, half (or more) of the nations of Europe couple justify invasion and annexation if we're going to play your silly game. I mean, why shouldn't Germany retake Pomerania and Saxony from Poland?
newthinking
(3,982 posts)of events and misrepresents the situation.
You have attached yourself to the lie that what happened in Kiev was not an overthrow by an extreme and unrepresentative group. So I can also ask a similar rhetorical question: You mean you support the overthrow of democratic governments?
I have detailed the history of this, which goes much farther back then last year. This is the SECOND attempt by outside forces to push a minority into power (the first being the Orange Revolution, which was led by a man heavily involved with US Right wing institutions, and in fact was married to a US citizen neo-con who had worked under Cheney and in right wing think tanks in the US (Ever heart of the far right "Heritage Foundation"? A lot of people are unaware they are defending actions of the groups they can't stand).
[font size="3"]To understand how we got to where we are now: You must understand that this effort has been ongoing since at least the beginning of the new century.[/font]
[font size="2"]
The first attempt at affecting "Regime Change" was the orchestration, mostly by neo-cons, of the "Orange Revolution".
The Wests choice in 2004? A man by the name of Victor Yuschenko.
His wife? An American Citizen and Far Right Republican who had worked for the Reagan Administration, had been director at a NeoCon think tank (New Atlantic Initiative) (Victor also worked with this group) and also worked for the far right think tank the Heritage Foundation. "Katherine Chumachenko Yushenko worked in the White House Public Liaison Office where she conducted outreach to various right-wing and anti-communist exile groups in the United States.
A very good summary from a post on an older version of DU Tinoire
There are links on the original page:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2870381
Ukraine, Yushchenko, his wife (Bush employee), the US and Soros
"After hearing that the NED had pumped $65 million dollars into this election and that his wife was an American citizen, I thought I'd research this a little. I don't know this handsome US-backed Yushchenko but I'm suspecting that he is going to dismantle the Ukraine Boris-Yeltsin style and sell if off to US & European corporate interests. Germany, France and the US already have their deals in place with him over pipelines, utility companies and national resources.
Just thought I'd throw this information out there so that people can see how these things are done and how the media cooperates into presenting these changes as "spontaneous" changes that the US had nothing to do with.
So here we go. First some of the "meddling" that the media hasn't covered and then in my second post, Yushchenko's "dedicated conservative" US State Department wife.
$61 million for the Ukraine elections to back Yushchenko and $100,000 to the Tsunami victims. Just shameful.
==========================================================
Bush Adminstration Spent $65 Million to Help Opposition in Ukraine
December 10, 2004
By: Matt Kelley
Associated Press
Printer Friendly Version
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has spent more than $65 million in the past two years to aid political organizations in Ukraine, paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet U.S. leaders and helping to underwrite exit polls indicating he won last month's disputed runoff election.
(snip)
But officials acknowledge some of the money helped train groups and individuals opposed to the Russian-backed government candidate — people who now call themselves part of the Orange revolution.
For example, one group that got grants through U.S.-funded foundations is the Center for Political and Legal Reforms, whose Web site has a link to Yushchenko's home page under the heading "partners." Another project funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development brought a Center for Political and Legal Reforms official to Washington last year for a three-week training session on political advocacy.
(snip)
The four foundations involved included three funded by the U.S. government: The National Endowment for Democracy, which gets its money directly from Congress; the Eurasia Foundation, which gets money from the State Department, and the Renaissance Foundation, part of a network of charities funded by billionaire George Soros that gets money from the State Department. Other countries involved included Great Britain, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Canada, Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
Grants from groups funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development also went to the International Center for Policy Studies, a think tank that includes Yushchenko on its supervisory board. The board also includes several current or former advisers to Kuchma, however.
IRI, Craner's Republican-backed group, used U.S. money to help Yushchenko arrange meetings with Vice President Dick Cheney , Assistant Secretary of State Richard Armitage and GOP leaders in Congress in February 2003.
(snip)
the U.S. government, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), granted millions of dollars to the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), which is administered by the U.S.-based Freedom House. (note: Very hawkish / Dan Quayle is one of their trustees / other names just as disturbing: http://www.freedomhouse.org/aboutfh/bod.htm )
PAUCI then sent U.S. government funds to numerous Ukrainian non-governmental organizations (NGOs). This would be bad enough and would in itself constitute meddling in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. But, what is worse is that many of these grantee organizations in Ukraine are blatantly in favor of presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko.
Consider the Ukrainian NGO International Center for Policy Studies. It is an organization funded by the U.S. government through PAUCI. On its Web site, we discover that this NGO was founded by George Soros' Open Society Institute. And further on we can see that Viktor Yushchenko himself sits on the advisory board!
(reluctant snip)
This May, the Virginia-based private management consultancy Development Associates, Inc., was awarded $100 million by the U.S. government "for strengthening national legislatures and other deliberative bodies worldwide." According to the organization's Web site, several million dollars from this went to Ukraine in advance of the elections.
(snip)
Note from the USAID page on Ukraine: "Beyond the power sector, USAID plans to identify and assist in removing the obstacles of proper market functioning in other segments of the energy sector such as the privatization of the oil and gas transportation systems."
https://web.archive.org/web/20040826143304/http://www.usaid.gov/pubs/cbj2003/ee/ua/121-0150.html
==================
Yushenko administration lost the presidency 15 months later:
Notably, one of the things that lost him the Presidency only 15 months later was his turn toward the same brand of extreme nationalism. He elevated Stephen Bandera, (a very controversial figure who is revered by extreme factions that Europe and others warned were tied to Social Nationalist Fascist groups) to "Hero" status.
A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2010/feb/24/a-fascist-hero-in-democratic-kiev/
[/font]
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Nothing wrong with that authoritarian fascist Putin.
Sheesh....
newthinking
(3,982 posts)that has several paragraghs dedicated to the history.
Under "Ukraine Period" Heading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_background_of_the_2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine
This was followed by a 1992 vote by the Crimean parliament to hold a referendum on independence from Ukraine, which spawned a two-year crisis over the status of Crimea.[15] At the same time, the State Duma of the Russian Federation voted to void the cession of Crimea to Ukraine. In June of the same year, the Ukrainian government in Kiev voted to give Crimea a large amount autonomy as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea within Ukraine. Despite this, fighting between the Crimean government, Russian government, and Ukrainian government continued. In 1994, Russian nationalist Yuri Meshkov won the 1994 Crimean presidential election, and implemented the earlier approved referendum on the status of Crimea.[18][19] 1.3 million people voted in this referendum, 78.4% of whom supported greater autonomy from Ukraine, whilst 82.8% supported allowing dual Russian-Ukrainian citizenship.[20] Later in that same year, the status of Crimea as part of Ukraine was recognised by Russia, which pledged to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in the Budapest Memorandum. This treaty was also signed by the United States, United Kingdom, and France.[21][22] Ukraine revoked the Constitution of Crimea and abolished the office of President of Crimea in 1995.[23] Crimea was granted a new constitution in 1998, which granted lesser autonomy than the previous one.[14][24]
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
[center][/center]
Ryan Fitzomething
(139 posts)Like the ones that have sunk the ruble? Are those the kind of useless sanctions he's talking about?
roamer65
(36,745 posts)They are driving Russia right into the Chinese sphere of influence.
A Sino-Russian economic and military alliance will not be a good thing, folks. It will be the beginning of world war.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)The price of oil tanking has more of an effect on the Russian Economy right now than the sanctions. Add to that, US-Russian trade is pretty miniscule. And the EU has already balked at any new sanctions. If fact, some are talking about "deescalation" already.
Merkel is facing a growing "Putin Versteher" and its only a matter of time politically she is going to have to massage their fears. And other EU nations are starting to feel the bite.
This isn't the Soviet Union Part Duex where its collapse had no economic effect to the west due to its closed economy. Tanking the 8th largest economy is going to ripple pretty hard.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Are they useless, or are we tanking the Russian economy? You can't seem to make up your mind.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)US Sanctions against Russia = Worthless
EU Sanctions against Russia = Pain for Russia and eventually the EU
Oil price tanking = Major Pain for Russia, Iran, Venezuela and US/Canadian Oil Extractor Companies.
The US is goading the EU to keep up the pressure and to add more sanctions, but the EU has already said no to more and are starting to look for ways out of it.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The Russians now have theirs.