Sharpton 'outraged' at fatal NYPD police shootings

[LiberalElite]

Source: USA Today

The Rev. Al Sharpton said Saturday he is "outraged" at the shooting deaths of two New York City police officers.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/20/sharpton-new-york-city-police-officers-killed/20706865/

[philosslayer]

1. A good response

N/T

[awoke_in_2003]

13. That will get zero air time...

TV loves to slam Al.

[Archae]

15. Well, Al Sharpton doesn't exactly have a stellar record...

Maybe recently, he's mellowed out, and gone after the right things.

But he totally screwed the pooch with Tawana Brawley.

[marble falls]

20. When did that happen again, 1992 or 1990? How has he screwed up since?

[THECHOSEN1]

22. Seriously?

Just a week or so ago at his march in NYC they were chanting they wanted dead cops. Sorry, doesn't matter what he says, it what he does. I want to see him actually attend the funeral of the two murdered police.

[NOLALady]

26. Are you going to attend the funeral

for the dead cops?

Exactly when did Rev Sharpton say that he wanted dead cops?

[THECHOSEN1]

47. No I'm not

But I did not attend the funerals of the other people that were a factor in these murders and I also have not put myself as the face of a movement that had direct influence on these murders.

[arcane1]

50. "a movement that had direct influence on these murders" Are you fucking serious?

What "movement" led that asshole to kill his girlfriend? Can you answer THAT??

[THECHOSEN1]

51. Please

The guy wanted to "put wings on pigs" and "revenge Michael Brown." Maybe he killed his girl friend because she tried to stop, wanted to report him who knows. What I do know is he killed two innocent men because they wore a badge in a city that has become a flash point. A city where just over a week ago the "movement" you don't want to own today was chanting we want dead cops. Well, they got it, now what?

[arcane1]

52. "chanting we want dead cops" I somehow missed that.

Sounds like a right-wing fantasy to me. 99.9% of the "movement" was perfectly peaceful, yet you BLAME them for this crime?

Your lame attempts at discrediting the actions of thousands of well-meaning people are transparent and obvious.

[kelly1mm]

53. Here a link to the chanting you missed:

[arcane1]

56. 20 assholes in a side-protest, compared to thousands in the main protests.

But let's blame the minority

[kelly1mm]

60. You said you missed it. I just wanted to educate you. A "Thank you" would have sufficed. nt

[arcane1]

63. I wanted to see "the movement", not two dozen assholes.

[kelly1mm]

65. Using that logic, the 'police' don't need reforms because some small part of them are bad? The

Tea Party is not racist because most of them are not racist/or are not on tape saying racist things?

Do we really want to go down that road?

[THECHOSEN1]

66. Keep spinning

I'm sure you think all republicans are gun toting racists as well. whether you want to accept it or not, that is part of the movement created from the killing of Michael Brown. Now I am sure that most are just the idiot anarchists that could care less about Michael Brown, but they still belong to this latest cause.

[arcane1]

72. If they are anarchists who don't care, then they aren't part of the movement

You're trying to have it both ways. And failing.

[Ken Burch]

57. The guy was a random head case.

He'd have done what he did whether protests were happening or not.

Please stop this.

[Ken Burch]

54. No movement had "direct influence on these murders".

The anti-police violence movement calls on the police not to persecute and kill black people. It doesn't call on anybody to kill police.

And you damn well know it.

[kelly1mm]

55. Here is a video of the protestors last week in NYC calling for dead cops:

[Ken Burch]

59. That was a tiny splinter group, possibly made up of provocateurs.

You can't blame the movement as a whole for them.

[arcane1]

61. They're damned determined to blame the whole group, aren't they?

Coming out of the fucking wood-work today.

[kelly1mm]

62. You said " It doesn't call on anybody to kill police." Well, SOME of 'it' does, as is shown

in the video.

Now, if you would like to say that some small number of protesters did that and you can't blame the movement as a whole, I would agree.

The problem with that is that is exactly the same argument the people supporting the police make, ie that only a small part of the police are 'bad'. Thus, you cannot blame the police as a whole for them.

[kelly1mm]

76. Please point out where I said "the movement" was responsible for anything. I said nothing of the

sort. You may be thinking of some other post or maybe putting words in my mouth I did not say (or, actually, write).

[kelly1mm]

85. What post number of mine had the quote "had direct influence on these murders"? nt

[Ken Burch]

88. OK, it was actually THECHOSEN1 who posted that...my apologies. Have deleted the posts.

You jumped right in with what THECHOSEN1 was doing and I was confused. Sorry, should have read more clearly.

but you have doubled down heavily on the idea that that tiny group of side demonstrators, a group that weren't really even part of the thing, are something the mainstream of the movement are to blame for and should somehow have stopped. You posted the link of them shouting their rot and implied, by doing so, that they represented "the movement", rather than just representing themselves(or just representing police or FBI or Homeland Security provocateurs).

If people show up alongside your demo and start talking shit, you really can't get rid of them. Not without causing a riot.

And again, clearly the shooter was hopelessly messed up and would have wasted cops or somebody else no matter what.

[Scootaloo]

77. Here's what the movement says;

"We are shocked and saddened by the news of two NYPD officers killed today in Brooklyn. We mourned with the families of Eric Garner and Mike Brown who experienced unspeakable loss, and similarly our hearts go out to the families of these officers who are now experiencing that same grief. They deserve all of our prayers.
http://andystepanian.tumblr.com/post/105748544126/ferguson-action-blacklivesmatter-release

Unfortunately, that's not what you want to hear, so you'll just ignore it in favor of stuff that justifies your own biases.

[kelly1mm]

79. Who appointed that person spokesman of the movement? What is the movement? Are there

multiple movements?

[Scootaloo]

80. It's a statement from Ferguson Action Coalition.

http://fergusonaction.com/

Now, question for you. Who appointed those twelve people who no one knows in your video spokespersons?

[kelly1mm]

81. 'ferguson action coalition' is 'the movement' over what happened in NYC and the Gardner incident?

They are taking responsibility for all the protests? Funny, I have never even heard of them before.

I never said they (the protestors) represented 'the movement'.

I said they were representing themselves as part of the movement.

[Scootaloo]

82. No offense, but you don't strike me as someone who keeps up with the subject

so, not surprised you haven't heard of them.

And yes, you've been casting that video as representative through this whole subthread.

Like I said. You have your statement. i can't help if you don't want it, and prefer justifying your own biases. have fun with that.

[Ken Burch]

89. In any cause with broad-based support and involvement, there will always be multiple factions.

And there will always be multiple groups of crazies and fanatics who show up on the edges to attempt to attach themselves to the cause in question, simply to get attention.

In the anti-Vietnam War movement, for example, there were all sorts of views, ranging from the Adlai Stevenson liberalism of the Eugene McCarthy campaign to the Sparticists(a group who showed up in antiwar rallies in 1970 holding signs that said "All of Southeast Asia MUST be Communist by 1971"-although they didn't say what they'd do if it wasn't).

Extreme divisions existed in the black freedom movement(Dr. King vs. the Panthers)the early 70's feminist movement(NOW on the moderate center-left to the feminist-anarchists of Redstockings-both of which had a lot of interesting and valid things to say), and in the LGBTQ rights movement(from the Mattachine Society, which was just barely non-closeted at all, to the Gay Liberation Front, the group whose calls for "the abolition of the family" are still thrown at gay activists today by the religious Right as if all gays support that objective, to gay and lesbian separatist movements whose views echoed those of the black separatists a few years earlier).

It's not possible to get one absolutely unified "line" for any movement...and there are always folks who show up who are mainly there, for whatever reasons, to cause some sort of trouble(or various infiltrators).

So, again, it's not fair at all to blame people like Sharpton and the 99% of the anti-police violence movement who've been absolutely nonviolent for the deaths of those policemen, horrible as those killings were.

And no good would come of ending the anti-police violence movement and allowing police violence to win in the name of asserting purity, which it sounds like you would like to see happen(unless I've got you wrong).

[arcane1]

58. They're trying to take a small alt-protest and turn it into the entire "movement"

Don't be fooled by this blatant trolling.

[marshall]

73. Better to address it than ignore it

i agree it is not representative of the vast majority of "the movement," but it does exist, it was filmed, and if we don't address it and get the sensible narrative out there, it will be left to right wingers to turn it into another Benghazi. Look at the Vietnam era protests--even now much of the discussion about what happened centers around the few incidents of violence rather than the other 99.9% of what happened.

[duhneece]

75. A call for justice offends ...who?

Tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) expressed a desire for peace, a desire that innocent young black men, young brown-skinned men, young poor men, old folks of all walks of life, children NOT be killed by 'law enforcement.'
That hasn't changed.

[giftedgirl77]

27. Good thing nobody gives a shit what you want, huh?

[THECHOSEN1]

49. If only you were right

Which you are not, I would say 70% of the country would agree with me.

[giftedgirl77]

67. 70% my ass....

Your first post was just as disingenuous as the rest of them. You pull statements out of your ass without having a clue about the bullshit you spew. Al Sharpton doesn't owe these officer's families any special apologies or condolences.

[THECHOSEN1]

69. I must kill you

To know that I am right whether you want to accept it or not. This country is not a left country, not a right country but a center country. Much like the republicans want to get rid of their fringe right, I want my democratic party back from the anarchists who are trying to steal it. As for Sharpton, if only there were a TV camera there, he would show. Now I doubt he would apologize, I'm sure he will apologize to this family as soon as the Duke Lacrosse team gets theirs.

[giftedgirl77]

70. You mean the people who feel that POC

should have equal rights & shouldn't have to worry about being executed on sight? That's not fringe left, it's called constitutional rights...

[giftedgirl77]

71. Check this thread out....

Since it's your first day here & all & you seem kind of focused on this one thread maybe this one will broaden your horizons.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025989979

[THECHOSEN1]

90. Sorry

To not think people like Sharpton are not racist is foolish. He is in the business of dividing and he is doing nothing but lining his pockets.

[marble falls]

28. Calm down:

This morning, thousands of police officers and members of the community attended the funeral of Russel Timoshenko, a 23-year-old police officer shot during a traffic stop of a stolen SUV. Timoshenko, who died a few days after the shooting, was posthumously made a detective; Mayor Bloomberg explained it was "a small measure of our appreciation for the supreme sacrifice that Russel made, and to honor his life."

Hundreds of people attended the wake, from police officers (including Timoshenko's partner, Herman Yan, who was wounded in the incident) to regular civilians. The NY Times spoke to a 16-year-old mourner, Lillian Rivera, who just a few months ago had asked Timoshenko what it was like to be cop and if she should try to apply. After attending the wake, Rivera said she still wanted to become a police officer: “It just makes it even better that you see someone put their life on the line. It makes you want to see if you can do better, too, or do the same thing."

And the Reverend Al Sharpton's National Action Network issued a statement about Timoshenko's murder.

Rev. Al Sharpton, Kirsten John Foy, director of the criminal Justice Initiative of the National Action Network and the National Action network family would like to extent its deepest condolences and prayers to the family of Officer Russel Timoshenko on his passing. Tragic and unnecessary, death is always a heavy burden to bare, and we want the family to know that the community shares this burden with them.

We also wish to make clear that violence and thuggery is not acceptable to us as a community as a whole. Violence directed towards police officers is as immoral as violence emminating from bad cops and we stand with those calling for justice. In these times it is important for all of us to remeber that we either live together as brothers or we will perish together as fools.

Officer Russel Timoshenko was an upstanding young man and had a bright future in law enforcement. From all accounts he was a good cop and will be surely missed by his family and we stand with them in this time of morning.

CityRoom spoke to Sharpton, who explained he had contacted a priest in touch with the Timoshenko family, "You never see me come out unless the family asks me to come out and speak on their behalf." He added that when he had once paid respects at another slain officer's funeral, he was criticized: "I get it either way. If I come out and say something publicly, I’m criticized, and if I don’t, I’m criticized.”

http://gothamist.com/2007/07/19/officers_wake.php

So Sharpton HAS attended police funerals in the past. In this case the family of one of the murdered policemen has asked Sharpton not to attend.

[uppityperson]

45. Even though the family asked him not to? Welcome to DU, may you learn while you are here. nt

[Ken Burch]

64. Sharpton wasn't to blame for them chanting that.

The movement itself has always been against all violence.

You just have beef against Sharpton because he's an articulate spokesman for the powerless.

[LiberalElite]

25. Back in the 1980s - for some, for ever,

Tawana Brawley is to Sharpton as Chappaquiddick is to Ted Kennedy and is used in an attempt to invalidate anything they do.

[marble falls]

31. My point exactly. "for ever". Sums it up well.

[LiberalElite]

32. It's kind of an

extreme version of "original sin". (I was raised Catholic.)

[marble falls]

34. Never though of it that way, but it certainly makes sense.

[leftynyc]

84. At least Kennedy apologized for

causing the woman's death. Sharpton has never apologized. THAT'S why so many NYers will never have any use for him whatsoever. I don't care what else he has done since then.

[Skittles]

78. he never adequately took responsbility for that travesty

he was fooled, so were a lot of people - he should have apologized

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

35. Dear god, i am speechless

[LiberalElite]

37. Don't be -

they trot out Brawley every chance they get. Sadly predictable to the point of boring.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

39. Hey, I know about the old Al Sharpton more than most, his FBI ties, etc

but it has nothing to do with today, at all.

I love it when white people, assume this person is white, passes judgment on anything a person of color does, having no clue what walking in their shoes is like...

[hrmjustin]

48. NY media covered his speech.

[duhneece]

74. You watch MSNBC?

They like him. PoliticsNation with Al Sharpton.

[Ash_F]

2. That Harry Houck is a shmuck. Why is he allowed on CNN? /nt

"We have two dead police officers and I guess Al Sharpton got what he wanted"

Fuck him

[alp227]

3. Sadly, when CNN legitimizes such opinions, they get upvoted in comments sections.

If Houck was stupid, the comments section after the USA Today article is even stupider.

[marble falls]

21. CNN is FoxLite©, or Fox on valium.

[alp227]

4. NY Times: Two Police Officers Fatally Shot in Brooklyn; Suspect Is Found Dead

Two police officers in Brooklyn were fatally shot in their patrol car on Saturday in what the police commissioner called a “mindless assassination.”

The commissioner, William J. Bratton, said the suspect had shot his former girlfriend in the stomach in Baltimore earlier in the day and had apparently posted photos on an Instagram account threatening to kill New York City officers.

Mr. Bratton, speaking with Mayor Bill de Blasio at a news conference on Saturday evening, identified the officers as Wenjian Liu, a seven-year veteran of the New York Police Department, and Rafael Ramos, who had been an officer since 2012.

Mr. Bratton said the officers had been shot with “no warning” and “no provocation.”

full: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/21/nyregion/two-police-officers-shot-in-their-patrol-car-in-brooklyn.html

[rocktivity]

9. So we're going from death BY cop to death WITH death of cop?

But if the ex-girlfriend survives, I guess the joke will be on him...


rocktivity

[LiberalElite]

6. Their names are:

Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos. What does that do to your biased opinion?

[LiberalElite]

8. Oh give it up already

"We all know" Who's the WE?

[christx30]

43. Guys wearing white pointy hats

that are not the Pope. That's the "we" that the hidden poster was referring to.

[LiberalElite]

44. I figured as much - I'm

happy that someone alerted on it.

[7962]

10. So an OP about 2 cops being executed only gets 8 posts?

Meanwhile, if Scalia said theres a 30% chance of rain in an OP, it would get 250. We all think eric Garner was abused for no reason. But for there to be pretty much NO reaction to this blatant attack sure makes this place look bad.

[still_one]

12. This isn't the only thread about about what happened, and it sure wasn't the first thread about it.

I have no idea how many threads have been posted about the police officer killings, nor how many posts are contained in each thread.

This is also the last weekend before Christmas, and perhaps other factors, I don't know, but I sure think your generalization is hogwash

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025986586

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=970167

and more which will continue to be added to, most with compassion for the officers

[7962]

18. It was the 1st one I'd seen; I do see the 2nd you posted is earlier.

But the 1st one you posted was later on. Also, look at the dissension among the posters on the earlier one. Some posts blocked, some actually removed. And a LOT of back-and-forth over something that everyone should obviously be against.
But I guess there ARE thousands of members here, there are bound to be a few loose screws.

[still_one]

23. That is the problem a few offensive posts can have the effect

Of broad brushing most DUers

I have no doubt if an actually poll of DU members were done the vast majority.would have not only found the killings repulsive, but also felt sympathy for the officers families

[7962]

30. I think you're probably right.. nt

[roody]

14. We are speechless.

[pkdu]

16. " abused" ? ...interesting choice of words for someone worried about how " this pace" looks..nt

[7962]

17. Well, he WAS abused. And there should have been an indictment.

For at least one of the cops; the one who initiated it. Murder likely would've never been a charge that could've been proven, but I believe manslaughter could have.

[marble falls]

19. Maybe its the porportion involved. If my prime imperitive is survival - I'd be a cop not a black....

male between 12 and 30 years of age. More black victims, more posts. Fewer cops shot like dogs in the street, fewer posts. More cops die of suicide than being killed on the job.

This shooting in indefensible. Shooting of anyone without due cause is indefensible. The problem isn't who's being murdered - its the continuing gun violence and mayhem by both sides.

[NeoConsSuck]

24. Eric Garner was 'abused' ??

Nice choice of words. Very telling.

[7962]

29. Yes, abused. It's accurate. And it started long before the arrest.

Too bad you think my choice of words is "telling". So's your avatar of Ernesto the murderer.

[marble falls]

33. So, who did Che murder?

[7962]

40. Where do you want to start? He was also a homophobe

“The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink" One of his early statements.

He ordered the execution, without any trial, of hundreds of former Batista government officials
“To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary,”
“A revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate.”
He mounted a campaign to jail homosexuals
He commanded firing squads that killed even women and children
In a letter to his father; “I’d like to confess, papa’, at that moment I put a bullet in a mans head and watched him die slowly, I discovered that I really like killing.”
He started the "work camps" in Cuba
He was totally against free elections
He shot one of his own people just because he was suspicious of him
He wanted nuclear war and wanted Cuba to be sacrificed for it “If the nuclear missiles had remained, we would have used them against the very heart of America, including New York City…We will march the path of victory even if it costs millions of atomic victims…We must keep our hatred alive and fan it to paroxysm.”

The irony is that most of those in the US who think he is some hero would actually be dead or in jail if they were under his control.

[NaturalHigh]

41. Yes, he was an absolutely deplorable person.

I have no idea why some people think of Che Gueverra as some sort of hero. At best he was a zealot willing to do anything to further his cause. A more likely explanation, though, is that he was a sadistic monster who enjoyed killing.

[marble falls]

42. Some substantiation, please? I heard he helped liberate Cuba to a state most Cubans seemed to ....

prefer to Batista. Do you know anything about the regimes before Batiste?

[7962]

46. Well, if you speak out against the Castro govt, you go to jail

So of course most Cubans "prefer" them to Batista. The poor had it bad under Batista and the rich flourished. Under the current system, most of the country is poor unless you're connected to the government
As for "Che", read his biography for starters. Thats where many of the quotes I used came from. Or you can read "Exposing the Real Che Guevara", by Humberto Fontova. Some may tell you to read a book from Jon Lee Anderson; "A Revolutionary Life", but it was written with the "help" of the Cuban govt while Anderson lived in Cuba. Its hardly objective.

[Judi Lynn]

86. Please add the link for your claims. It would be important to know who published this.

You should have noticed it sounds like right-wing gibberish created by a very slow-witted person, for a slow-witted audience.,

[7962]

87. Sources are in post #46

Some from his own biography, some from another book.
Whats slow-witted is the worshipping of someone who did what Ernesto did. And as I said above, its ironic how most in the US who adore him would be dead or in jail if they were UNDER him.

[LiberalElite]

38. Why not wait a while

to see how many posts an OP gets? Otherwise you're no better than the rw media that sends a camera crew to a protest in the morning beforee it starts and dutifully reports low attendance.

[Dawson Leery]

11. I agree.

There was no justification for this heinous act.

[Gothmog]

36. Everyone is outraged