Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Judi Lynn

(160,516 posts)
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 03:09 AM Oct 2014

The Berlin Wall: Another Cold War Myth

October 22, 2014

A Response to Economic Sabotage

The Berlin Wall: Another Cold War Myth

by WILLIAM BLUM


November 9 will mark the 25th anniversary of the tearing down of the Berlin Wall. The extravagant hoopla began months ago in Berlin. In the United States we can expect all the Cold War clichés about The Free World vs. Communist Tyranny to be trotted out and the simple tale of how the wall came to be will be repeated: In 1961, the East Berlin communists built a wall to keep their oppressed citizens from escaping to West Berlin and freedom. Why? Because commies don’t like people to be free, to learn the “truth”. What other reason could there have been?

First of all, before the wall went up in 1961 thousands of East Germans had been commuting to the West for jobs each day and then returning to the East in the evening; many others went back and forth for shopping or other reasons. So they were clearly not being held in the East against their will. Why then was the wall built? There were two major reasons:

1) The West was bedeviling the East with a vigorous campaign of recruiting East German professionals and skilled workers, who had been educated at the expense of the Communist government. This eventually led to a serious labor and production crisis in the East. As one indication of this, the New York Times reported in 1963: “West Berlin suffered economically from the wall by the loss of about 60,000 skilled workmen who had commuted daily from their homes in East Berlin to their places of work in West Berlin.”

It should be noted that in 1999, USA Today reported: “When the Berlin Wall crumbled [1989], East Germans imagined a life of freedom where consumer goods were abundant and hardships would fade. Ten years later, a remarkable 51% say they were happier with communism.” Earlier polls would likely have shown even more than 51% expressing such a sentiment, for in the ten years many of those who remembered life in East Germany with some fondness had passed away; although even 10 years later, in 2009, the Washington Post could report: “Westerners [in Berlin] say they are fed up with the tendency of their eastern counterparts to wax nostalgic about communist times.”

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/10/22/the-berlin-wall-another-cold-war-myth/

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

Nitram

(22,791 posts)
1. 51% were happier? I'm not sure we can rely on the accuracy of a poll in a police state.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:02 AM
Oct 2014

I am sure there were economic reasons for the wall, but the most important reason was that daily exposure of East Germans to a successful and thriving capitalist state was undermining communism.

 

Sparhawk60

(359 posts)
2. If the Wall Was to Keep US Out...
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:05 AM
Oct 2014

If the wall was build to keep us out of East Germany, why were all the guns, landmines and fortications facing in to East Germany? From time to time, we whould hear about people, men, women and children being killed trying to leave East Germany, but never heard of people killed trying to get into East Germany.

Why is that?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
6. It also allowed the Communist regime to shoot people who tried to cross into West Germany.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 01:30 PM
Oct 2014

This is apologism for the worst kind of state-sponsored murder and oppression.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. a defense of the Berlin wall. Never thought the freaks at counterpunch could get any lower,
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 01:29 PM
Oct 2014

but they just did.

Authoritarian swill of the highest order.

Anyone who believes this crap is no better than Mussolini. When people talk about the ultra-authoritarian left, the author is a prime example.

Blum is a Stalinist loon.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
7. Yep, I was juror #7...
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 01:49 PM
Oct 2014

On Thu Oct 23, 2014, 12:30 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The Berlin Wall: Another Cold War Myth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016105134

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post defends the Soviet practice of imprisoning the entire population of East Germany and shooting those who tried to escape. What next, a discussion of how Dachau was actually a workers' paradise?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 23, 2014, 12:42 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nevermind
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: WTF?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No it doesn't.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why was this alerted on? The article is factual, since when did we hide facts on this forum?

That's what we come here for, to learn. And if it is not factual, then challenge it, discuss it, provide counter factual information.

Leave it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter. This is ridiculous revisionist history. People died trying to get to the other side of that wall from the east to the west.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

greatauntoftriplets

(175,731 posts)
8. Unbelievable.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 02:01 PM
Oct 2014

I'll never forget climbing one of the lookout points in West Berlin to look over the Wall and seeing that minefield and the obstacles to prevent escape. To think that so many people risked (and often died) trying to cross that to get to the West boggles the mind. A sight that I will never forget.



It was a great day when that abomination was torn down.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
10. It might have been slightly less awful
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 03:53 PM
Oct 2014

had the writer, you know, actually tried to TALK to people who once lived on the other side of the wall to get a full perspective...We used to have at least one DUer who grew up in the DDR...

But nope, can't do that...He might hear something which contradicts his pre-formulated narrative

FBaggins

(26,728 posts)
9. This nonsense really needs a couple more decades to pass before it will sell
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 02:20 PM
Oct 2014

There are too many people alive who remember the truth.

Yeah... I'm sure that the Stasi were just trying to keep emloyees from moving to better jobs in the west.

Of course... why they would do that since so many of them reportedly prefered conditions in the east... is not explained here.

EX500rider

(10,839 posts)
12. List of deaths at the Berlin Wall
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 03:59 PM
Oct 2014
There were numerous deaths at the Berlin Wall, which stood as a barrier between West Berlin and East Germany from 13 August 1961 until 9 November 1989. Before the rise of the Berlin Wall in 1961, 3.5 million East Germans circumvented Eastern Bloc emigration restrictions, many by crossing over the border from East Berlin into West Berlin, from where they could then travel to West Germany and other Western European countries. Between 1961 and 1989, the Wall prevented almost all such emigration.[1]

The state-funded Centre for Contemporary History (ZZF) in Potsdam has given the official figure of 136 deaths, including people attempting to escape, border guards, and innocent parties. However, researchers at the Checkpoint Charlie Museum and some others had estimated the death toll to be significantly higher.

The escape attempts claimed the lives of a wide variety of people, from a child as young as one to an 80-year-old woman, and many died because of the accidental or illegal actions of the guards. In numerous legal cases throughout the 1990s, several border guards, along with political officials responsible for the defence policies, were found guilty of manslaughter and served probation or were jailed for their role in the Berlin Wall deaths.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_at_the_Berlin_Wall

cprise

(8,445 posts)
15. Oh, the irony
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:36 PM
Oct 2014

of freedom-fighting against an inconvenient assemblage of facts.

There is no black-and-white interpretation of the Cold War that can stand up to scrutiny as intellectually honest.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
16. No. I am not a Stalinist ergo I see the Berlin
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:27 PM
Oct 2014

Wall for what it was--an unambiguous human rights violation and instrument of oppression.

Unlike authoritarian bootlickers like Blum and his nasty ilk who think it was acceptable to shoot East Germans to prevent them from taking jobs in the West.

Blum peddles Stalinist propaganda, not facts, and there is a very compelling moral reason why the Berlin Wall Fan Club has always been marginalized by the decent left.

People who think the Berlin Wall was a good or even neutral thing are worse than Ted Cruz and about as vile as Mussolini's legacy-bearers in Europe.

Which is why it's both galling and hilarious when they pretend to care about police violence or closing Gitmo--they support treating everyone like a Gitmo detainee.

To the extent Blum and those who share an ideology with him purport to abhor the abuses of Nazi Germany while excusing Stalinism, they only show that The Big Lie lives on.


cprise

(8,445 posts)
17. The hysteria lives on
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:51 PM
Oct 2014

What's hilarious is the reaction of some here to an article that states at the beginning that the usual narrative around the Berlin Wall is simplistic and then goes on to explain why. He even states the DDR used the wall as a way to solve their 'brain drain' problem -- I don't see an endorsement in that.

If anything, I'd say the kneejerk attitude against the article is the same exact social phenomenon that today leaves tyrants like Joseph Stalin as great leaders in the eyes of so many descendants in the countries they ruled. In the USA you see it most in Texas school boards and these days in Colorado where conservatives want to prevent teaching the nasty parts of the regional culture; It's everywhere and believe me there is plenty of justifiable blame to go around whether in Russia or the land of Manifest Destiny.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
13. Actually, the myth about the Berlin Wall that really gets me
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 04:09 PM
Oct 2014

Is that Ronald Reagan was responsible for its destruction. If he had not said, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall", it would not have come down. This is an article of faith among many Republicans.

The problem is that Reagan made that speech on 12 June 1987, and the Wall came down on 9 November 1989. Call it two and a half years later. I am picturing Berliners going about saying, „Ach, das wäre ein Mann mit Visionen für die Zerstörung dieser Mauer nennen würde!“ -- "Oh, would that a man of vision would call for the destruction of this wall!"

No, Reagan had as much to do with the Wall coming down as Herbert Hoover did with the fall of the Weimar Republic: Both men just happened to be in office at the time it happened.

Judi Lynn

(160,516 posts)
18. Article rec'd in the O.P.: "Humpty-Dumpty and the Fall of Berlin's Wall"
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 12:00 AM
Oct 2014

Humpty-Dumpty and the Fall of Berlin's Wall
Monday, 06 October 2014 14:11
By Victor Grossman, SpeakOut | Op-Ed

“Humpty-Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty-Dumpty had a great fall. “

The children’s rhyme and its words Wall and Fall came to mind in connection with commemorations of the fall of the Berlin Wall - actually its opening up. Is such an allusion frivolous? Maybe. For millions that event twenty-five years ago was marked by genuine, understandable euphoria. But unceasing ballyhoo in the German media, weeks and weeks ahead of the anniversary, and plans for 8000 white helium balloons lit up by 60,000 batteries along the ten-mile length of the former wall, to be released in the evening with triumphant trumpet blasts, jubilant church bells or something similar while Angela Merkel, Lech Valesa, Mikhail Gorbachov, Berlin’s departing mayor and other celebrities cast their eyes gratefully heavenward, may perhaps justify my somewhat different approach.

After the Wall lost its barrier status on November 9th 1989, what soon fell in the months that followed hardly conjured up the funny-looking egg some recall from Alice’s looking-glass adventures. It was rather the forty-year-old institution calling itself the German Democratic Republic, the GDR. To employ the ovoid allusion again, one might inquire: Did it fall because it was totally foul? Was it given an outside push or two? And did that downfall represent simply the glorious revolution of a folk yearning for freedom - or is the matter more complicated? This is still very relevant, for many similar uprisings have since occurred - and are still occurring.

Why did the GDR go under? Despite reams of bad publicity since its start after 1945, it was born largely of the hopes and dreams of a relatively small number of survivors of Hitler fascism, some in exile on many continents, others in Nazi camps and prisons. These men and women were determined to create a new Germany - or part of Germany at least - rejecting fascism and the powerful forces behind it: Bayer and BASF (of I.G. Farben), which built and helped run Auschwitz, Siemens, Krupp and Flick, which misused hundreds of thousands of starved concentration camp prisoners and forced laborers from all Europe - and the Deutsche Bank which helped finance every bloody step of the way. Despite their defeat, for a second time, these forces never gave up plans for recuperation and renewed expansion and were already re-establishing themselves. But not in eastern Germany, where such plans were thwarted and their factories and property nationalized. It was this vitally crucial move by the GDR which was never forgiven, not to this day.

Those first activists, facing millions of widowed, orphaned, embittered, ideologically cynical or still Nazi-infected people, invited the best exiled anti-fascist writers, artists, professors, theater and film experts to help alter these moods and prejudices, at least in eastern Germany. Among those responding were Bertolt Brecht, Hanns Eisler, Anna Seghers, Ernst Busch, Arnold Zweig, Heinrich Mann (who died just before his arrival). Others, like Hans Fallada, had remained in Germany but opposed fascism. These people, and those who learned from them, created progressive theater, music, film and literature to match any in the world. Here, too, fully contrary to developments in that other Germany across the Elbe, Nazis were ejected from schoolrooms, lecture halls, police stations and judge’s benches.

More:
http://www.truth-out.org/speakout/item/26667-humpty-dumpty-and-the-fall-of-berlins-wall

FBaggins

(26,728 posts)
19. Victor Grossman? Seriously?
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:10 PM
Oct 2014

That explains much of the nonsense you're reading.

Do you know who he is? He's a former US soldier who deserted and joined the communist block in E. Germany. He's part of the group that claimed at the time that the Berline Wall was necessary to protect them from the Fascists in W. Germany and wasn't happy when the wall came down.

I doubt that anyone is surprised that he has his own unique spin on the history. What is surprising is that anyone thinks the rest of us will fall for it.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Editorials & Other Articles»The Berlin Wall: Another ...