NYT op-ed: Buck Up, Democrats, and Fight Like Republicans

[Chiquitita]

"...There’s no shortage of legal theories that could challenge Mr. Trump’s anointment, but they come from outsiders rather than the Democratic Party. Impassioned citizens have been pleading with electors to vote against Mr. Trump; law professors have argued that winner-take-all laws for electoral votes are unconstitutional; a small group, the Hamilton Electors, is attempting to free electors to vote their consciences; and a new theory has arisen that there is legal precedent for courts to give the election to Mrs. Clinton based on Russian interference. All of these efforts, along with the grass-roots protests, boycotts and petitions, have been happening without the Democratic Party..."



[link:http://nyti.ms/2hDHrTs|

[INdemo]

1. The Democrats are doing the same as they did in 2000,2004,and 2014

they are sitting on their hands and saying " we will make sure this will never happen again"

[lagomorph777]

8. ...as they make sure it WILL happen again...and again...

dammit, we have to teabag our own party - take it over from dog catcher and precinct chairperson on up the chain. It will take years but if we don't, we're all dead.

[Overseas]

2. K&R. Democrats need to demand a revote. And call attention to recount problems.

Even if they don't think it will happen, I'd like to see them call for a re-vote, based on the interference.

Recounts were stopped in key states, even though problems were discovered. Those issues need more coverage.

Voters purged through incorrect broad brush Kobach Crosscheck were put on provisional ballots. All those ballots need to be counted.

It was sad to see recounting just left to Stein and not backed up more by other Democrats.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

31. YES this is it - stop fretting about the people who didnt vote for you and start fighting for those

who did and got screwed over!!!

Michigan in particular - pretty clear evidence of massive failure to count 70000_ votes. So WHERES HRC ??? She had the standing to fight it, Stein didn't.

WI was probably not worth doing because by law counties are allowed to choose whether to hand count or just run ballots thru the machine again - so if theres malware on the machine its just going to spit out the same results again.

Getting to the bottom of what happened in Michigan prob would not have elected Hillary. BUT WHAT THE HECK DO IT ANYWAY _ BECAUSE ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

[Metro135]

3. The Democratic Party reminds me of that frat initiation scene in Animal House . . .

where the pledge is bending over and getting swatted with a paddle on his bare behind.

"Thank you, sir, may I have another?"

[Paladin]

4. If the Democratic Party doesn't seize this moment, it doesn't deserve to exist any longer. (nt)

[Perseus]

6. That is a little bit drastic, don't you think?

Think about it, if the Democratic party does not exist, what do we have then? The republican party for all eternity...not a good choice.

What needs to happen is for people to start demanding democrats to put on their balls back, to have cojones and start acting more forceful and not allow to be bullied. People should stop calling this guy "president-elect", if there was cheating, then he was not elected, he is still a candidate. The democrats need to ask for recounts, lobby the electoral college members, and explain loud and clear the mess that we will be in if nothing is done to remove the clown from being inaugurated January 20th, but eliminate the democratic party from existence? Bad idea.

[lagomorph777]

9. If the Democratic Party doesn't seize this moment, it CANNOT exist much longer.

It's committing slow suicide.

[KPN]

12. Yup!

[Paladin]

11. What's drastic is Donald Trump.

I'm a lifelong Democrat and a Hillary Clinton supporter. And again I say: if the Democratic Party is incapable of mounting an immediate, effective opposition to the excesses of the Trump regime, then the Democratic Party has outlived its usefulness, and needs to be supplanted by a more effective political entity. Believe me, I take no pleasure in harboring such a belief---but that's where things stand, as far as I'm concerned. I hope the Democratic leadership proves me wrong...but I'm not terribly optimistic at this point.

[classykaren]

17. I agree

[world wide wally]

5. If they don't do something now

Forget about after the Innauguration.

[SHRED]

7. Here's one of the problems

[classykaren]

15. Yes we always worry we will look like sore losers.Repubs dont care how they look as long as they win

[ZoomBubba]

10. The thing is ...

... if we fight like Republicans, it tends to backfire on us. Trying to present ourselves as the adults in the room would seem much more preferable.

[KPN]

13. Lol!

That worked real well for us in 2000 and 2004, did it? Geesh!

[ZoomBubba]

18. So 2000 and 2004 ...

... were just like 2016?

If I recall correctly, we gained a seat in the House in 2000, putting us at just a 9-seat deficit, and only lost 3 in 2004, following a "crushing" loss of 7 seats in 2002. In 2006 we turned things around with a 31 seat gain. It wasn't an always-winning record, but it wasn't overwhelming losses either.

We also gained seats for a split senate in 2000, lost 2 seats in 2002, lost four in 2004 (which knocked Dems down to 48), then reclaimed all the previous 6 years' losses in 2006.

How is that like our previous six years?

[KPN]

22. Yes. Dems lost the Presidential election

because of nefarious hard ball tactics employed by the GOP.

[ZoomBubba]

25. We try those tactics too ...

... we threw the kitchen sink at Trump. He still won.

We're just not good at them.

Obama acted like an adult and acted like even addressing the birther thing was totally stupid. He won decisively both times.

[KPN]

27. No question Hillary's campaign strategy of "unqualifying"

Trump failed. Won't argue with that. But Trump did the same thing and it worked for him. Why?

[ZoomBubba]

29. Because both the left and right ...

... have been turning Hillary into a Satan-like figure for more than a decade. Bernie Sanders did a lot of damage in the primaries and left an open would for Trump to exploit ... which is an example of the far left and far right unintentionally working together.

[KPN]

32. I don't agree. Hillary already had open wounds of her own making.

The GOP was well prepared to exploit those regardless.

Look, I'm quite sure I feel as bad about the outcome of this election as you. Laying blame without a willingness for honest self-reflection regarding the views of millions of other Democrats, some of whom are now Independents and some, like me, who have been Democratic Party members since 1972 -- is how I perceive your criticism. That's not very open-minded or something I will accept.

[JudyM]

40. Exactly right, well-said!

[The Hitman]

14. [Citation Needed]

[ZoomBubba]

20. So ...

... you'd rather rely on fear and question the legitimacy of the system?

We won big in 2006 partly due to Bush's unpopularity and also sounding like adults when the Republicans stroked off while wrapping themselves in the red, white and blue.

Yeah, I don't think people will buy it if we did that.

[The Hitman]

24. Legitimacy of the System?

Are you kidding me? Did you follow this last election??

Quick recap:

1. The Russians hacked us.
2. The Republicans knew about this and purposefully put their party before our sovereignty.
3. The FBI acted under a double standard in a calculated move designed to hurt our nominee.
4. The Republicans have nominated, and that person is our our president elect, a candidate who is in great danger of forever undermining our democratic institutions and may be a plant for Russia.
5. That same nominee refuses to take intelligence briefings, literally putting all of our lives at risk.

Mind you, our candidate received 3 MILLION more votes than theirs did. Oh yeah and some machines in heavily democratic districts happened to break on election day.

The system is illegitimate, both in its function and in the results its brought.

It's time for a new rule in how we act as a party. The new rule is that we need to do whatever it takes to win, provided our actions are legal (short of treason like the Republicans did, or fraud (i.e. an illegal opposite of suppression)).

No more "coming together" look where that got us
No more "bipartisanship" everyone thinks DC is broken and incompetent and that is because of republican obstruction.

All-out march to victory. By any legal means necessary.

[ZoomBubba]

26. You didn't show any proof ...

... that the system is illegitimate. It produced the results it was made to. If you don't like it, support candidates who want to make an amendment.

I'm not going to buy into the whole hyper-partisan thing, just turns me off. We got what we got and we have to learn to work through it. For me, it's not worth the energy to get into the who "YOU! NO YOU" shouting match.

[KPN]

33. Ironic! eom.

[Loki]

16. The first thing they need to do is confirm Merrick Garland

to the Supreme Court in the window of opportunity in January, and just do it. This country needs courageous rebels right now, not cowering, simpering fools. I don't care how much the GOPutin's yell and scream, they're all traitors now.

[KPN]

23. +1000000!!!

Absolutely!

[unblock]

28. is our fleeting january majority filibuster-proof?

[KPN]

34. I frankly don't fucking care. Democrats need to take the offensive and make the

GOP react rather than pussy foot around for once and for all. This is a fucking big deal. Is the party for common people or not?

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

37. Who is "they" - can bho do it on his own without congress?

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

41. No!!! Not like R's, how bout fighting like DEMS of the 30s (labor) or 60s (civil rights)

[radical noodle]

19. We need to form groups that stir up trouble like

Judicial Watch. Give it a name that sounds like it's working for the people and start getting documents from anyone we can. Any of Trump's administration, once they're approved, are fair game.

[wryter2000]

21. If the NYT did their job

We wouldn't be where we are.

[Guilded Lilly]

30. Republicans count on cowardice. And...

they know there is a vast number of citizens they can always count on to loudly embrace the cowardly, vulgar, low life underbelly of hate. That is easy.

But they have been moreso using the reliably wishy washy weak-spines of their "friends across the aisle" to defeat humane and progressive legislature for decades.

That is a form of cowardice that will forever do more damage than the wretched agenda the Republicans represent.
They have gained horrid advancement because Democrats refuse to "refuse".

Refuse now.
RESIST now
Our lives have never counted on it more.
We cannot do it alone, no matter our numbers.

[KPN]

35. Absolutely right! eom

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

36. Seriously, we need a party that will not lie down and allow

this treasonous bastard and his cronies to destroy everything we have been fighting for!

[yurbud]

38. When Dems lose, instead of fighting LIKE Republicans they fight FOR Republican policies

[Bill USA]

39. hopefully, the idea of "post partisan" politics, practiced by only one party the last 8 yrs will die

January 2017. IT was an idea which, I think, helped lead to the calamity we've recently witnessed. IF the Democrats lost supporters among the Working class - if that is true - it's because over the last 8 yrs many people were confused as to whether the Democratic party was still the Democratic party. This is a direct result of this "post partisan" politics fairy tale, especially when practiced in the face of raging maniacal partisanship by the Republican insurgency.