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red dog 1

(27,757 posts)
Tue Feb 7, 2017, 05:42 PM Feb 2017

Conservative David Frum Offers Advice To The Resistance - We Should Listen

Daily Kos
February 7, 2017


Dasvid Frum is a never Trumper and has written an article in The Atlantic offering some advice for effectively protesting Trump.
He's still in denial by rejecting that the GOP is Trump, and Trump is the GOP, and he is stuck in the delusion that "conservatism" is some type of a political philosophy that Republicans believe in.
We've all seen how quickly the GOP coalition is willing to toss in the trash any "beliefs" they claimed to have had, and are perfectly willing to trade democracy for fascism in exchange for a tax cut.

But still, he sees the authoritarianism that has consumed the White House and he's doing what he can to fight the orange abomination.
Now there's an awful lot in his article that I disagree with, much of it seems to be an effort to try to attract the GOP regulars, which I think is a total waste of time, but he does have some suggestions we might want to think pretty hard about.



"Trump wants to identify all opposition to him with the black-masked crowbar thugs who smashed windows and burned a limo on his inauguration day.
Remember Trump's tweet about stripping citizenship from flag burners?
Don't let him get away with it...Carry the flag."



I think this is a really good point.
WE are the Americans who believe in and are fighting for democracy.
We should not cede to Republicans that they are somehow patriots because they wear a flag pin, especially after they have so freely supported GOP fascism at every level of government.
At the risk of being politically incorrect, those in the resistance are the true patriots in this country!



"Since his acceptance speech in Cleveland, Donald Trump has made clear that he wants to wage a Nixon-style culture war:
cops against criminals, soldiers against pacifists, hard hats against hippies.
Don't be complicit.
If you want to beat him, you have to reject his categories
If you see guys with crowbars in the vicinity of your meeting, detain them yourselves and call the cops.
You're the defenders of the Constitution, the Republic, and the Western Alliance.
Act like it."


Read more:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/7/1630880/-Conservative-David-Frum-Offers-Advice-To-The-Resistance-We-Should-Listen

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Conservative David Frum Offers Advice To The Resistance - We Should Listen (Original Post) red dog 1 Feb 2017 OP
Excellent article volstork Feb 2017 #1
Only one teeny tiny problem... thejoker123 Feb 2017 #4
WHICH Democrats "think they are going to turn this thing around by being nice and 'inclusive'"? red dog 1 Feb 2017 #5
I was speaking of Frum's advice thejoker123 Feb 2017 #6
Frum's advice didn't include what you are claiming it did red dog 1 Feb 2017 #7
Seriously? thejoker123 Feb 2017 #8
"Meet in real space as well as online..Serve cake." red dog 1 Feb 2017 #9
Obviously, I didn't suggest any of those things. thejoker123 Feb 2017 #10
Frum and Steve Schmidt are as smart as anyone we have Cicada Feb 2017 #2
Very good points... Mike Nelson Feb 2017 #3
 

thejoker123

(279 posts)
4. Only one teeny tiny problem...
Tue Feb 7, 2017, 08:27 PM
Feb 2017

The right did none of this, and they now control 75% of the states and 100% of the federal government.

Outside of a few center-right governing Democratic presidents, and a handful of "wins" on social issues like gay marriage, the right has completely owned the left. They've done this by furious, relentless, unapologetic, united messaging.

If Democrats and liberals think they are going to turn this thing around by being nice and "inclusive", then they truly haven't learned a thing, and likely never will.

red dog 1

(27,757 posts)
5. WHICH Democrats "think they are going to turn this thing around by being nice and 'inclusive'"?
Tue Feb 7, 2017, 08:43 PM
Feb 2017

Be specific, please.

red dog 1

(27,757 posts)
7. Frum's advice didn't include what you are claiming it did
Thu Feb 9, 2017, 03:50 PM
Feb 2017

Nowhere in Frum's article did he state that "Dems & liberals think they can turn this thing around by being nice and inclusive"

Where EXACTLY in Frum's article does he say or even imply this?

 

thejoker123

(279 posts)
8. Seriously?
Thu Feb 9, 2017, 07:27 PM
Feb 2017

"You want to scare Trump? Be orderly, polite, and visibly patriotic."

"“Tone policing” is one of the worst possible things you can do"

"Don’t get sucked into the futile squabbling cul-de-sac of intersectionality and grievance politics."

"If the singer Madonna wants to indulge herself in loose talk about political bombing, let her do it on her own platform, not yours."

"Can I imagine my Rush Limbaugh listening brother-in-law agreeing with it?"

"d) Would I still be upset about this if Marco Rubio were president now? If so, bad"

"Don’t argue: recruit. Meet in real space as well as online. Serve cake". (LMAO)

"be motivated by hope, not outrage."

Like I said, he's suggesting we play nice, which is what democrats always do....and the right NEVER DOES. How has that worked out for us?

red dog 1

(27,757 posts)
9. "Meet in real space as well as online..Serve cake."
Thu Feb 9, 2017, 10:17 PM
Feb 2017

Sounds like what happens at "Coffee Party" meetings all over the U.S.
http://www.coffeepartyusa.com

So you're saying that groups like The Coffee Party are merely "playing nice" and are totally useless and ineffective?

So their motto, "incite civility & reason" is pure, useless bullshit?

So would you suggest that instead of joining groups like the Coffee Party"..
"Liberals", progressives, Democrats & moderate Independents should enact legislation all over America that would keep Republicans & conservatives from voting?

Would you suggest that Dems, liberals, progressive & moderate Independents should do whatever they can to "flip votes" from Republican to Democrat?

Would you suggest that Dems, liberals, progressives & moderate Independents should encourage foreign nations to hack into the RNC and other conservative or GOP organizations, as well as hack into the elections themselves?

Would you suggest that Dems, liberals, progressive & moderate Independents should wear masks, incite violence & flip over police cars? (Like the GOP paid agent provocateurs & anarchists do)

Look, I don't agree with everything David Frum says in the article, nor does the author of the Daily Kos piece, but, imo, Frum makes some good points.

One thing you seem to be forgetting is the fact that were it not for the treasonous actions taken by FBI Director James Comey only 11 days before the election, we would be talking about President Hillary Clinton right now, and not that rat bastard Trump.

Until Comey violated the 1939 Hatch Act by sending that letter full of lies about HRC to Congress on October 29, Clinton was leading Trump by between 11 & 14 points in the polls.
(Right after the tape surfaced of Trump saying: "I grab 'em by the pussy&quot

Republicans can only steal elections when they are close, (Obama proved that in 2008 and 2012)..and until Comey sent his 10/29/2016 letter to GOP leaders in Congress, the 2016 presidential election was NOT close.

THAT is why that lying, Orange Blowhard now occupies the White House, (and also why the Dems weren't able to take over the Senate)...it has nothing to do with "being nice."

 

thejoker123

(279 posts)
10. Obviously, I didn't suggest any of those things.
Fri Feb 10, 2017, 12:42 AM
Feb 2017

What I said is while not all of Frum's advice is bad, his overall theme of playing nice and trying to court Limbaugh fans with reason has, and will continue to be, a pathetic losing strategy for the left.

I would never advocate breaking laws or stealing elections or doing any of the things you mentioned. But regardless, NONE OF THOSE THINGS are why Republicans now control 75% of the states and 100% of the federal government. They may have helped Trump get elected, but Trump isn't the problem, he's a symptom of a national stage IV cancer that's been spreading for 40 years.

Republicans keep winning because they control the messaging via their massive media complex and the corporate media, because they stand united and unapologetic about their beliefs and convictions, and because democrats are way too polite, way too fragmented, way too scared, and way too appeasing.

That kind of perceived weakness doesn't sell in this country. People will take wrong but strong more times than not, especially in the vast red counties and states. That's why people loved Bernie (strength and unapologetic conviction), and frankly, it's a huge part of why many voted Trump (classic "wrong but strong&quot .

The bottom line is we liberals keep deluding ourselves that if we are nice and reasonable and just explain the facts, the "people" will get it. Ha!

Amazingly, even post-Obama (the poster child of reasoned, polite, tolerant intellectual discourse) many STILL haven't figured out that this is a fatally flawed strategy in a country of lazy-brained, fat, gun-touting, bible thumping ignorant rubes.

No one seems to have told Democrats that it's not 1950 anymore, where most people understand basic civics and are relatively informed on the issues and form their opinions on, you know, actual established facts.

People are scared, desperate, and grotesquely uninformed. That's the perfect breeding ground for a fascist demagogue "strong man" to step into, and that's exactly what happened.

To win, democrats need to have furious, unified, unapologetic messaging on both our policies and the horrific consequences of Republican ones. On how and why the corporate media enables their treachery. On how republicans use hate and fear to turn people against each other and distract while they rob us blind. Racists need to be called racists, liars liars, greedy greedy, and so on.


And Democrats need to explain this shit to Americans in each and every small town like they are 5 years old, because that's about the mentality of many. STOP assuming that people understand the well known, proven catastrophic effects of things like demolishing labor unions, or deregulating Wall Street, or dismantling the social safety net. People are fucking idiots, most either brainwashed or simply unread. THEY NEED THINGS SPELLED OUT TO THEM.

Fear-monger! Scare the shit out of them, scream it from the rooftops. Because unlike brown people, this shit actually WILL destroy the country, it's already well on its way to doing so.

In short, what we need are 10,000 Elizabeth Warrens out there, in every neighborhood, in every town, in every state. We need disciplined fighters who speak the language of every day people. This is a war, and we won't win it by trying to "convert" the enemy, we'll win it by winning the hearts and minds of the tens of millions of moderates and the bystanders who don't vote.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
2. Frum and Steve Schmidt are as smart as anyone we have
Tue Feb 7, 2017, 05:53 PM
Feb 2017

I always listen carefully to them. If they disagree with me I always know I may be the one who is wrong.

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