Why are we, as Americans, allowing this?

[lees1975]

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2023/01/why-are-we-as-americans-allowing-this.html

A criminal who led one of the most corrupt presidencies in American history is on the campaign trail seeking election to a second term. That's exactly the opposite of what should be happening in a country that claims it is a "nation of laws." If the Constitution of the United States, which guarantees the civil rights of the people in whose hands lies the full power of government, cannot prevent a corrupt, criminal, insurrectionist from entering a political campaign to get back into the most powerful political position in the world, after his crimes and corruption have been revealed, then how can it protect the rights of its citizens?

[Walleye]

1. He is laughing all the way to Deutsche Bank

[NullTuples]

22. :: chef's kiss :: - that comment had *layers*

[secondwind]

2. Manhattan Prosecutors Will Begin Presenting Trump Case to Grand Jury

in the Stormy Daniel case....

The Manhattan district attorney’s office on Monday will begin presenting evidence to a grand jury about Donald J. Trump’s role in paying hush money to a porn star during his 2016 presidential campaign, laying the groundwork for potential criminal charges against the former president in the coming months, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

Everything is moving slowly, but it's moving.

[gab13by13]

8. Why didn't Merrick Garland bring charges?

Why are the states leading the way to holding Trump accountable?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

15. There's the pivot!

It was Alvin Bragg’s fault until today, now it’s Garland’s.
Never fails.

[gab13by13]

20. Answer my question.

Nicolle Wallace asked the same question today. She also asked why now!!! Why has it taken so long to prosecute Trump for something that Michael Cohen went to jail for 6 years ago.

Why didn't Garland prosecute "individual one?'

[AZSkiffyGeek]

21. Answer my question

Why do you cite convicted criminals and Republican pundits to bolster your case?

[SergeStorms]

31. To be fair...

gab13by13 asked you to answer the question first.

I'm merely being a moderator here.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

33. Fair enough

And had the question been asked in good faith maybe I’d answer.

[SergeStorms]

34. So you're refusing to answer?

OK, fair enough.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

37. Well the question was asked by a Republican pundit

And asked of a convicted felon, so my response was kinda relevant.
And the person who posted the question said that any DUer who supported Garland was a Trumper, so I doubt they’re interested in my answer.

[SergeStorms]

40. You don't owe me an explanation.

I'm just moderating. 😉

[Autumn]

29. Has it been six years already? Damn good question.

Does statute of limitations come into play with something like this? Seems to me that Michael Cohen supplied all the proof they needed to prosecute something like that.


Why didn't Garland prosecute "individual one"?

By the way, you know you won't get an answer to that question.

[Snoopy 7]

49. Who is getting paid to be

"an American television host and author"? All she has to do is read/look it up. There are stories of bill barr shutting down the investigations. She will not say so because she likes the MONEY she makes and doesn't want to loose her job. She wants to look controversial while not being so. Nicolle is just doing what her masters are telling her to do...

[Handler]

35. I think the reason Garland is sitting on his hands is because he has no spine. The evidence is there

and many have been indicted and convicted because of their part in the 1/6 insurrection. Trump seems to be very sure he will not be indicted if he is running and I think he is right. An ex president deserves no more protection from the law than anyone else. Garland seems to have a different opinion.

[2naSalit]

39. It could be...

Due process, pesky thing that it is. Kind of like food, good food takes time to prepare.

[NullTuples]

25. Remind me - what happened to that other New York criminal investigation of him?

The one everyone got all excited about last year because *finally* someone was going to take him down.

You know, this one:

The criminal prosecution of Donald Trump in his home town appears to be all but officially over, at least for now. In an unexpected reversal of roles, Alvin Bragg, who took over as Manhattan’s District Attorney, in January, after campaigning on a promise to hold the former President accountable, instead seems to have all but abandoned the case that was brought by his predecessor Cyrus Vance, Jr., a prosecutor often criticized for being too timid.​​

Before finishing out his third term as Manhattan D.A., Vance’s office successfully took its case against Trump to the Supreme Court twice. His office then indicted both Trump’s company, the Trump Organization, and his former chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, on tax charges. Prosecutors under Vance were reportedly focussing on whether Trump had criminally manipulated sworn statements of his net worth to mislead banks into giving him favorable loans, and government authorities into falsely reducing his taxes. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-does-new-yorks-criminal-investigation-of-donald-trump-appear-all-but-over

[Scrivener7]

3. This is what "justice denied" looks like.

[LakeArenal]

4. The Electoral College has a lot of the blame.

[NullTuples]

28. Sen. Addison McConnell gaming the EC since 2010 via redistricting, you mean?

[CrispyQ]

5. Dem turnout will shrink in 2024 if he's not at the very least indicted before then.

That's just my opinion, but if he's not indicted & worse, allowed to run for president, don't expect 81 million democratic votes in 2024. You can't keep crying "Democracy's in danger! Get out & vote," & then not go after the ones who put democracy in danger when you get the power to do something.

I know the optimists think Garland's DOJ will pull through, but if Adam Schiff is concerned, I'm concerned.

[SoCalDavidS]

6. You're Probably Right

And he’s not going to be indicted.

[Evolve Dammit]

9. agree completely.

[lees1975]

12. You're exactly right.

If he's a threat to democracy, and I don't think there's a shred of doubt about that at all, then he should already have been indicted and anyone who was committed to democracy and in a position of either judicial or legislative influence, would be doing all they can to prevent him from getting anywhere, and that would include blocking his candidacy. Gee, when you're indicted for a crime as big as these are, you are generally held without bail and the trial is "speedy."

I've listened to Garland's apologists, and hope they're right, and I'm not a Harvard Law graduate, so I will allow that I don't have a comprehensive understanding of how indictments like this work, but I think two years, two years, has been plenty of time to work up a case that's as much of a slam dunk as this one appears to be. But if you're really concerned about the danger this orange headed fascist poses to democracy, then do something to stop it. Indict and hold him for trial.

And arrest every single Trumpie who even thinks about committing violence against this country to defend him.

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. Thanks for your Frank honesty

so I will allow that I don't have a comprehensive understanding of how indictments like this work,

For your enlightenment:

It took over two years to indict former AG John Mitchell for his comparatively less complex Watergate crimes of simple obstruction and conspiracy, and he didn’t go to prison for nearly five years after the crimes were committed.

It took three years to indict Joshua Schulte for espionage, and another two years to convict him last summer. He is currently awaiting sentencing.

[gab13by13]

23. Less complex?

Michael Cohen disagrees. Cohen said this Stormy Daniels case is the easiest to prosecute of all trump's crimes. How long did it take to indict and convict Michael cohen?

[Fiendish Thingy]

43. Michael Cohen is human click bait

Barr sabotaged any potential prosecution of Trump.

The complexity I was referring to was of the crimes under current investigation- Trump’s actions around January 6 and the MAL documents. The documents case is definitely simpler than January 6, but any time you have 26 lawyers with potential criminal exposure or who could be called as witnesses, and all the resulting layers of privilege, it’s more complex than John Mitchell’s crimes.

[Autumn]

42. To be honest during Watergate we did not have people admitting to their crimes on major media

and social media. We also didn't have elected officials asking for pardons from a president, in congress and under oath. Nixon didn't stage rallies, interviews and tweets admiting to things he was accused of.

I think had Watergate happened as openly as trumps trail of crimes and accomplices it would have been over in 6 months.

[lees1975]

46. However, the vast majority of indictments follow arrests

and most indictments lead to arrests within a relatively short period of time. Yeah, I know, they want all the ducks in a row, irrefutable evidence (which, with January 6th, is very open, visible in every photo and video that was taken of his speech and the whole riot) and the testimony of more than a thousand eyewitnesses, including Trump apologists who openly admit, and even brag about the fact that they clearly understood his invitation to come to DC to take a shot at ignoring the legitimate election process and getting their way by violence.

From before Stormy Daniels up to January 6th and then in the obstruction of justice in getting at real stolen classified documents instead of notebooks mentioning classified documents, the criminal history of failed President 45 adds up to more potential indictments than they had against Al Capone.

The real deadline here has already passed, and the buffoon is out there running again, so really, it's too late. Saving democracy is on a timetable that has, for the most part, slipped away, just like nailing his ass on Russian collusion in the 2016 election.

[Fiendish Thingy]

47. No deadline has passed.

We agree that the future of democracy is at stake, but unlike you, I don’t think it’s too late.

[lees1975]

50. This guy has been indicted and is being held until trial

so why can't that be done with the orange headed buffoon?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/failed-political-candidate-indicted-shootings-new-mexico-officials-hom-rcna68316

A deadline has passed, and that was Trump's announcement he was running again. That should not be allowed, that is a travesty and the fact that he's already gotten away with so much obstruction and fraud related to the 2016 election is also a travesty. Now he's running again and that is a huge political liability, and every day that goes by is a bigger risk of violence from his mindless moronic followers.

[hadEnuf]

24. Gee, I wonder how long it will take to indict Trump if the next coup succeeds?

Oh wait....

[Eyeball_Kid]

32. There is a large segment of the US population that sides with Trump.

They are at a minimum, indifferent toward democracy. They've never experienced anything other than this "democracy," they have been told that it's corrupt and will at least never change, and may get worse. Further, they don't grab the concept that if you don't like what people are doing to weaken democracy, then VOTE THEM OUT. Further, they don't know when they are being lied to-- they're devoid of critical thinking skills.

Trump, meanwhile, pledges his fealty to.. Vladimir Putin. He favors Putin and Russia IN ALL THINGS. He will NEVER criticize Russia or Putin. He's a Russian Agent. Yet he's got tens of millions of followers in the US who don't really care if Russia is intent on destroying the US. Instead, they care about Trump's "Mussolini" brand. Some even think he's the Second Coming.

Decades ago political leaders devalued the importance of mental health and defunded vital and needed services. It began with Reagan. And no one cared. In the early 80s I was predicting a massive outpouring of acting out by folks who should be receiving mental health services, but instead were allowed to roam free untreated, acting out at their earliest convenience. Then came the explosion of guns in the US, and anyone with an iota of anxiety rushed to get them. So NOW.. we have tens of thousands of unstable characters with easily accessible guns and semi-automatic assault rifles, and the only methods that they know of to resolve anxieties, disputes, or feelings of worthlessness is to find a target and start emptying their arsenals.

Sad Prediction: the FIRST dictator who runs the country will undoubtedly outlaw guns. It's because guns represent competing power, and a dictator will not allow competing power. So all of those pro-Trump Second Amendment whackos will be a target of an authoritarian police force whether it's Trump or anyone else who becomes dictator. That dictator will "neutralize" all weapons, including assault rifles, and will impose SEVERE and violent penalties for resisting. When that happens, the shooting will begin.

[yaesu]

38. I think if the Fed is allowed to tank the economy that will tank our chances of holding office in 24

[Fiendish Thingy]

48. The Fed saved the economy- have you not been following the news on inflation?

It’s the GOP that’s trying to tank it.

[Skittles]

7. I don't get it either

I'm thinking it is rich, white male repuke thing because NO ONE ELSE WOULD GET AWAY WITH THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR

[Thunderbeast]

10. Politics has never been about justice...

It is about the projection of power.

Democracy ONLY WORKS if we harness the tools in our Constitution to resist those who would subvert it. There have always been actors willing to claim power through non-democratic means.

That tension has been brewing since King George threw in the towel.

[gab13by13]

11. The facts of the matter are;

the insurrection didn't end on 1/6/2021 it has only increased in intensity.

[Rebl2]

16. So true

All the way down to our local schools and unbelievably, our libraries. Also the fact that I believe they are attacking our power grid. Am I wrong in my thinking?

[gab13by13]

26. Just imagine if President Biden had risen to power

on the back of a domestic terrorist base. This is why you hear Magats talk about Antifa, they are trying to deflect from their extremism.

[cutroot]

13. He is only "running" because the hounds are on his trail

The gops fear him but they do not respect or honor him. He needs the campaign to further milk them.

[Lonestarblue]

14. Our hands are tied. We have been waiting for the DOJ to do its job, and we still don't know when

or if Trump and those who helped him plan an insurrection will ever be punished. My guess is no.

Republicans in several states committed crimes by sending fake slates of electors to Congress. Where are they today? Not a one has even been indicted, and some of those who tried to overturn their state’s votes now sit in Congress or in state legislatures. When there are no significant consequences for crimes, the message gets communicated is that Republicans can do whatever they want. And yet Garland very quickly asked a Republican Trump appointee whether Biden should be investigated for criminal behavior. Mike Pence has now admitted to having classified documents. Where is the Special Counsel for him? His case is exactly like Biden’s, yet there seems to be nothing going on there. I don’t think Pence needs to be investigated, but then neither did Biden. It does not matter that Biden is President and Pence is put of office. Did either knowingly commit a crime? No.

[Eyeball_Kid]

36. I'm partly pessimistic that anything fruitful will come from the DOJ. OTOH..

Garland KNOWS that the entire world is watching him, and how he deals with the fascist uprising. He knows that democratic self-rule is on the line. He MUST prosecute or the DOJ and the federal government crumbles. He has no choice. The most simple-minded of observers can easily conclude the same thing. It's not rocket science. Defend it or lose it.

[Lonestarblue]

41. I really hope you're right. I don't want to imagine how much worse the country will become if

Trump and his fellow insurrectionists walk free.

[Fiendish Thingy]

17. I assume you are referring to the 14th amendment.

Without a conviction for insurrection or seditious conspiracy, it’s highly unlikely that the disqualification clause of the 14th amendment would be enforceable against Trump. Even the most recent example, of Couy Griffin, required a conviction of a January 6 related crime before a judge would rule on disqualification.

Disqualification would have to come from the courts, as you know the current congress would never agree to disqualify him (and it’s not clear they have the authority to anyway). Any ruling from a lower court would surely be appealed.

I think the best, and most likely course of action is for Trump to be convicted of a serious felony and incarcerated. Even if he wasn’t convicted until after the 2024 election, the indictment and trial would hopefully (and have to) be enough to drive turnout and lead to his defeat.

[gab13by13]

27. I agree, the 14th Amendment couldn't even be enforced.

[blueinredohio]

19. Laws are only for peons.

[Sky Jewels]

30. It's enraging! Garland and DOJ have committed judicial malpractice.

A fucking COUP D’ETAT attempt requires swift, bold action. Every single Republican who tried to destroy democracy and overturn an election should have been imprisoned LONG ago.

They have utterly FAILED us.

[lees1975]

44. There are two different Americas

and I've said this on more than one occasion. One is for the rich, powerful and white. The other is for everyone else. In the first one, no real law exists except their ability to influence and bribe their way to pretty much do as they please. In the second one, everyone else pays for their influence and power.

That's the message that is being sent by the failure of the DOJ to indict, hold and prosecute this criminal. If we're a nation of laws, then enforce them or repeal them or they will be ignored anyway.

[Sky Jewels]

45. So true. That is becoming very clear.

I stupidly and naively had hoped/thought that perhaps because the coup attempt was such a blatant, egregious, televised-for-everyone-to-see-in-real-time affront to our country's laws, democracy, traditions, and sense of order that there would be some sort of consequences paid by even the highest levels of participants. Apparently, I was played for a fool. I'm a chump. I should have known better.

[RussBLib]

51. it's not over

by any means.

Trump will never become president again. He deserves jail time and I believe he will get it.

Just one of many opinions.

[lees1975]

52. Two years out and while hundreds of others have been tried and convicted

and have testified that they believed they were doing what he wanted them to do, and some politicians at lower levels who participated have been found guilty and removed from office, but he's completely free with no sign of any indictment. It's like all kinds of people are taking the fall for him while he goes about running again.

I believe he will never be President again. But I am having doubts that he will ever be held accountable by our legal system and that would be a major fail. It's time to hand down the indictments, and get Trump, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone and that whole mob behind bars We've waited too long. Garland needs to either get on it or get out and let someone with real balls take the job.

[Rhiannon12866]

53. +1000

Those who stormed the Capitol have been identified, charged, tried, convicted and jailed - but we know who called them there and he's still walking free!

[lees1975]

54. Continuing to demand Trump's multiple indictments.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/jan-6-rioter-put-feet-desk-pelosis-office-convicted-counts-rcna66814

Because he's as bad as this scum.