Salon.com: Karen Santorum did not have an abortion

[moriah]

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/06/karen_santorum_did_not_have_an_abortion/singleton/

Karen Santorum did not have an abortion
An expert says Internet chatter about the procedure that saved her life appears false

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Ever since Rick Santorum came microscopically close to winning the Iowa caucus, the Internet has been aflutter with the contention that he is a hypocrite on late abortions, because his wife allegedly had one. When Karen Santorum was close to death due to an infection, it is said, the author of the so-called Partial Birth Abortion Ban was party to an induced labor that saved her life — and which some pro-choicers have called the same as an abortion.

But this isn’t true, at least not so far as the Santorums have described the events of October 1996. Of course, without direct access to Karen Santorum’s medical files, we have to take their word for what happened, and with only sketchy details. But according to a nationally respected obstetrician-gynecologist who has long been active in the reproductive health community and who provides abortion services — who spoke on condition of anonymity due to not having treated Santorum directly — by their own account, the Santorums neither induced labor nor terminated the pregnancy.

<snip>

As the doctor put it, “One takes from this that pregnancies can go very, very wrong, very quickly.” Moreover, the kinds of legislative hurdles Santorum wants — or hospital administrative committees that seek to supersede the family’s decision-making — can certainly slow down the process and endanger women’s lives in the process.

But it’s important to stick to the facts as we can access them when it comes to the Santorums personal history, which they have frequently cited and even published a book about. Do you feel uncomfortable about having gone this far up Karen Santorum’s womb? Me too — which is another reason to vigorously oppose her husband’s policies.

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The entire article is well-worth reading.

Edit to add the original 1997 article where they talked about their experience:

http://articles.philly.com/1997-05-04/news/25562508_1_fetal-abnormality-controversial-late-term-abortion-procedure-intact-dilation-and-extraction

[marybourg]

1. It may not have been an abortion,

but it sure as hell would have been called such, and would have involved legal and medical interference from the usual suspects in the kind of anti choice environment Santorum advocates.

[moriah]

2. What happened to them might not have been called an abortion even under his dreamland laws...

"'She was in spontaneous labor because of the severe infection. The use of antibiotics in no way augments labor nor does it initiate contractions in any way, shape or form.' In fact, sometimes the opposite is true, and antibiotics can help forestall labor."

... in his dreamland laws, though, especially the ones like the "Protect Life Act" that I'm sure he would have supported had he been in congress, if they had gone to a Catholic hospital like their faith might have directed them to do, Karen would never have been given the option to induce labor, told her chances with both watchfully waiting and immediate labor induction, instead likely being put on a floor and given as much antibiotics and blood transfusions as were necessary until the baby died or labor proceeded. If labor hadn't proceeded, in such a hospital, the fact Karen and Rick would have been willing to accept labor induction at the last possible moment would have not mattered -- they wouldn't know about the option. Or just turned her away.

I really want to see his response to the Catholic Bishops on the "Protect Life Act"

http://usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/fact-sheet-emergency-services-protect-life-act.cfm

"Is EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) currently a problem?

No. It clearly states that health care personnel must respond to an emergency in which a pregnant woman or "her unborn child" is in distress, and should stabilize the condition of both. It is absurd to interpret the deliberate killing of the unborn child as "stabilizing" her condition, though abortion advocates have tried to do so."

If "deliberate killing" is speeding labor during a septic miscarriage in a woman running a 105 degree fever, already at the verge of sepsis itself, and letting the child be born alive tho too premature to survive... actually, it's stabilizing the condition of both. The child is no longer in a septic environment that is guaranteed to kill it -- instead, it gets to die a natural death outside of it's mothers womb. Stabilizing the mother occurred when the baby was delivered.

[marybourg]

5. i read that she was given pitocin

to speed things along. (it was in a link from a DU post, but I can't retrieve it now). Of course we don't know, nor should we, nor should the council which would sit in judgment of such occurrances in the anti choice heaven.

[moriah]

12. Found the 2005 article claiming that she used Pitocin.

Last edited Sun Jan 8, 2012, 03:33 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/magazine/22SANTORUM.html?ei=5088&en=83d72ed75fbada1d&ex=1274414400&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

That says it's according to their book.

Going to Google Books, and doing a search in the book for Pitocin. Should be able to get enough info without actually giving them money without buying the book.

Edit to add: not on Google books in a searchable format, or at least it can't find a quote for it but Amazon can't quote it either. If there was a paperback for $5 used I might get it so I didn't actually give them any money just to search, but not finding it.

Still, article is suspect. I want to either see the quote in the book, or find another source that didn't come from that *one* article without a direct quote from them on the subject saying they actually induced. That article has a lot of quotes from him on superficial issues, but no sourcing from them.

[Dr.Doctor]

14. It was an abortion

If "deliberate killing" is speeding labor during a septic miscarriage in a woman running a 105 degree fever, already at the verge of sepsis itself, and letting the child be born alive tho too premature to survive... actually, it's stabilizing the condition of both.

Doing anything which will cause labor and delivery of a 20wk fetus is not "stabilizing" it, it is causing its death.

Make no mistake-- Karen Santorum had an abortion. In a way she had two-- the spontaneous septic abortion ("miscarriage" in common parlance), followed by the deliberate induction of labor afterwards. The latter was lifesaving and the only realistic medical option-- but is something Rick Santorum's preferred policies would certainly curtail. (Actually it's hard to imagine anyone continuing to work as an OB-GYN or neonatologist under a Santorum regime, but I digress)

The point, though, is that Santorum had a choice for herself as well as the option of termination if/when all else failed-- this is the kind of choice she enjoyed and would deny other people. In my book that makes her a bad person.

[sellitman]

3. Like Romneys taxes the files are secret

What are they hiding?

That's the real problem.

[zbdent]

4. If her husband were running as a Democrat ...

there would be many lawsuits (kinda like "Hey, where's the incredibly rarely-needed long form birth certificate?&quot demanding she release her medical records to prove she didn't have an abortion.

But hey, since she is the wife of a Republican candidate ... her privacy is guaranteed ... even though Rick's stance on privacy is hypocritical ...

From the Wikipedia page on Rick:

"Privacy

Santorum has frequently stated that he does not believe a "right to privacy" exists under the Constitution, even within marriage; he has been especially critical of the Supreme Court decision in Griswold v. Connecticut (1965), which held that the Constitution guaranteed the aforementioned right, and on that basis, overturned a law prohibiting the sale and use of contraceptives. He has described contraception as "a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."

[moriah]

7. Just because they're hypocritical doesn't give us license to be, IMHO.

He may not believe in a right to privacy, but we do. I'm not about to ask her to supply her medical records.

[mainer]

6. God gave her the abortion.

Since the Santorums think that everything is God's will, then He's the one who ended the pregnancy.

[mucifer]

8. From what I've read the baby lived for 2 hours. So she gave birth and had a baby.

The baby died. They grieved in ways that are not pleasing to many people. I personally do not have a problem with what they did when their baby died.

I think santorum is a messed up politician who believes in lots of crazy ideas and would be horrible for this country.

[moriah]

9. +1

[Dr.Doctor]

13. Wait, really?

"I personally do not have a problem with what they did when their baby died."

Seriously?
Supposedly they took the dead fetus home, showed it to their kids, and slept with it in their bed. Let me ask you this: if your (insert family member here) say, grandmother, died in the hospital tonight wouldn't you find it in the least bit weird to take her body home and sleep with it in your bed?

There are problems with what the Santorums are reported to have done from start to end of their tragedy, but what they did when the fetus (predictably) died was definitely among them. If nothing else it reminds us all how deeply odd these people are and removed from the mainstream.

[mucifer]

15. I am a hospice nurse. I have seen a lot in the past 6 and a half years.

I have seen many people cuddle up with dead bodies. Bodies of adults and bodies of children and bodies of babies. I have watched children in the home observing this.

I feel a need to defend people here.

I've had families spend the night with the body in the home.

When a mother or a cousin or a sibling cuddling crying in a bed with someone who died I don't yank the body out of their arms. I let them spend time grieving. If that means they needs to spend hours doing this that is what happens. From everything I have learned this is what you do.

I am not the only hospice nurse who has this opinion. I must say that I discussed the santorum incident with colleagues, nurses and social workers we agreed the santorum issue was that he had special privileges allowing him to take the body home. Some people want their loved one to die at home but they couldn't get home in time. I have heard these requests before. Others are not allowed to do this. He was allowed to do it because he is a wealthy politician.

Things sometimes look different in writing than they do when you observe them in the home.

[baldguy]

10. They induced labor with a non-viable five-month old fetus.

If it was anyone else, the anti-choice terrorists would call that an abortion.

As always - IOKIYAR.

[moriah]

11. Has *any* article quoting them fresh, not using the 1997 article's quotes instead, actually said...

... that they induced? Have they ever said they induced?

Antibiotics are not abortive. Just like the whole Palin fiasco, they'll do enough damage without us making shit up for them.

The much better way is to address their quotes about what they would have done if they HAD to induce, if they had been told it was one hour left, as they said. Then present them with the fact that they went to a very expensive hospital to have their baby, a secular hospital that didn't decide to force another person's morality on them.

Fuck the "Protect Life Act", and I want him up on TV admitting that it's a terrible idea to give government funding to any hospital that doesn't present all appropriate medical options to their patients when there's only one life that can be protected!