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midnight

(26,624 posts)
Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:05 PM Mar 2013

A Non-Combatant Terrorist? Holder Issues New Statement On Obama’s Right To Kill Citizens Without

Charge or Conviction

It is not clear how this “additional questions” differed from the first or why Holder did not answer the question previously. The use of “it has come to my attention” adds a wonderfully dishonest element to an evasive answer. It is not clear what Holder means by “engaged in combat” since the Administration memo shows that the Administration is using an absurdly broad definition of “imminent” threat under the kill list policy. Since the Administration has continued to assert that terrorists are engaged in a war against the U.S., the terse reply of Holder seems designed to preserve later flexibility.

Moreover, there is nothing in the constitutional claim of the Administration that reflects such a limitation. Deciding on where to kill a citizen would be an discretionary policy under the sweeping presidential authority described by the Administration. As noted in earlier columns (here and here and here), it is astonishing how citizens, including so many liberals and civil libertarians, Obama is saying that his appointment of a non-binding committee satisfied due process and relieves any need for judicial review. Moreover, if the President has the inherent authority to kill a citizen in Canada, it is not clear why such inherent authority would not exist a few hundred yards away in Detroit. The Administration has said that it can use the unilateral power when it considers a capture to pose undue risk to its personnel.

What is particularly striking is that we have a president who is asserting the right to kill any citizen but the Administration has classified memos on that authority and the Attorney General will only give a Senator a terse two line conclusory statement on scope. The Administration appears to believe that there is little need to explain the details on killing citizens, such as how it defines “combat.” Obviously, if there is a war occurring in the United States, a president has the right to put down insurrection or attacks on the federal government. These strikes concern targeting terrorists. One can easily foresee this or a future president insisting that an alleged terrorism conspiracy is a form of combat.

It would seem an obvious thing to explain how they define combat and whether an alleged terrorist would fall into it. Does this mean that there will be a category of non-combatant terrorists for domestic strikes? How is that defined? It seems like a hole big enough to fly a drone through.



http://jonathanturley.org/2013/03/08/holder-issues-new-statement-on-obamas-right-to-kill-citizens-without-charge-or-conviction/

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A Non-Combatant Terrorist? Holder Issues New Statement On Obama’s Right To Kill Citizens Without (Original Post) midnight Mar 2013 OP
Case in point. OnyxCollie Mar 2013 #1
I myself... would think those bankers are deserving of that title... midnight Mar 2013 #2
There you go. He is definitely engaged in actions hostile to US. idwiyo Mar 2013 #3
yes, speaking truth to power is always hostile to an empire Mutatis Mutandis Mar 2013 #4
Drone him! I guess he IS a legitimate target. idwiyo Mar 2013 #5
There you go. Ignorant people are easily manipulated. nt OnyxCollie Mar 2013 #9
Just to clear it - I was sarcastic. In no way shape or form would I consider ANYONE EVER idwiyo Mar 2013 #15
Turley is an attention whore who misrepresents the Administration position simply struggle4progress Mar 2013 #6
Turley's questions about the definition of who falls into what categories of terrorism midnight Mar 2013 #10
Turley can understand the law and plain speech, but here (once again) he does not choose to do so struggle4progress Mar 2013 #13
Holder's response to Paul's question about if the U.S. "has the power" is never answered... midnight Mar 2013 #14
uh ... struggle4progress Mar 2013 #17
Come on. The Stranger Mar 2013 #18
Oooh! Vague ominous accusations! struggle4progress Mar 2013 #19
The question posed to Holder by the Senate regarding droning of Americans. The Stranger Mar 2013 #21
As far as I can tell, "the Senate" did not pose any such question to Holder struggle4progress Mar 2013 #23
The executive branch shouldn't be allowed to define the limits of it's own authority on this issue. limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #7
It is beyond me when John2 Mar 2013 #8
John how is this post a narrowly directed attack? midnight Mar 2013 #11
Thursday night, Stewart speaks about this issue on his show... Shares the idea that this midnight Mar 2013 #12
when Holder says that a certain method of killing is legal, quadrature Mar 2013 #16
I'm not saying your not right.... but how do you know that's what it is? The ACLU is now midnight Mar 2013 #24
K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2013 #20
Like CPAC, or a Hate Radio convention? Doctor_J Mar 2013 #22

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
15. Just to clear it - I was sarcastic. In no way shape or form would I consider ANYONE EVER
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 03:28 AM
Mar 2013

a "legitimate drone strike subject".

struggle4progress

(118,275 posts)
6. Turley is an attention whore who misrepresents the Administration position simply
Sat Mar 9, 2013, 08:02 PM
Mar 2013

in order to launch himself and other libertarians into the limelight

midnight

(26,624 posts)
10. Turley's questions about the definition of who falls into what categories of terrorism
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 01:13 AM
Mar 2013

is an important one that I wish more journalists were asking...

struggle4progress

(118,275 posts)
13. Turley can understand the law and plain speech, but here (once again) he does not choose to do so
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 01:53 AM
Mar 2013

His "article" is a mishmash of misrepresentations

He begins with "We previously discussed how Attorney General Eric Holder wrote a letter confirming that the President would have authority to kill citizens on U.S. soil without a charge or conviction." Following the indicated link, we find another Turley "article" assertingh "Attorney General Eric Holder this week held out the possibility that the President could kill an American citizens with a drone attack on U.S. soil without any criminal charge or trial"

But of course Holder's actual letter to Rand Paul said no such thing. What Holder actually wrote, in response to Rand Paul's question to him, was

... the US government has not carried out drone strikes in the United States and has no intention of doing so ... We have a long history of using the criminal justice system to incapacitate individuals located in our country who pose a threat ... The question you have posed is therefore entirely hypothetical, unlikely to occur, and one we hope no president will ever have to confront ...


As Rand Paul continued grandstanding, he obtained a second letter from Holder:

... It has come to my attention that you have now asked an additional question: “Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?” The answer to that question is no ...


Turley pretends to understand neither letter. For example, he claims the President asserts a right to kill citizens in Canada, and then reasons "if the President has the inherent authority to kill a citizen in Canada, it is not clear why such inherent authority would not exist a few hundred yards away in Detroit." Conditions under which any President might claim an inherent authority to kill anyone in Canada are as hypothetical and unlikely to occur as conditions under which a President might claim an inherent authority to kill someone in Detroit. Turley here is arguing at the level of an emotionally immature high school sophomore, and perhaps he does it for the same reasons an immature high school sophomore would, namely, to enjoy the outraged reaction. Turley repeats the claims, again and again: "we have a president who is asserting the right to kill any citizen." Repeating it does not alter the fact that Turley is deliberately misrepresenting the administration's position

Of course, Turley's huff-n-puff tells us quite a about his intellectual integrity: sadly, he has none

midnight

(26,624 posts)
14. Holder's response to Paul's question about if the U.S. "has the power" is never answered...
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 02:57 AM
Mar 2013

instead Holder refers to the fact that the U.S. allows the law enforcement to handle it and not military... So one has to wonder if our drones will be operated by law enforcement and not military... but that is a detail that is not clear either...

The Stranger

(11,297 posts)
18. Come on.
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 02:35 PM
Mar 2013

For the fucking life of me I cannot figure out why Holder and Obama would pull this shit.

I mean, what the fuck is going on here?

struggle4progress

(118,275 posts)
19. Oooh! Vague ominous accusations!
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 05:53 PM
Mar 2013

"I cannot figure out why Holder and Obama would pull this shit"

Spooky! Scary! Vacuous!

The Stranger

(11,297 posts)
21. The question posed to Holder by the Senate regarding droning of Americans.
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 11:42 AM
Mar 2013

Did you miss that part somehow?

struggle4progress

(118,275 posts)
23. As far as I can tell, "the Senate" did not pose any such question to Holder
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 01:02 PM
Mar 2013

But do feel free to provide explicit reference to some definite Senate resolution if you think me wrong

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
7. The executive branch shouldn't be allowed to define the limits of it's own authority on this issue.
Sat Mar 9, 2013, 08:12 PM
Mar 2013

Because it's an unenforceable limit. Whatever the President or his men say about the limit of this authority is pretty meaningless because the next President could have a different opinion.

Congress should create a legal limit on this authority and enact in into law.

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
8. It is beyond me when
Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:10 PM
Mar 2013

you continue your focused attacks only on this President, when others certainly in our Government knew the information about the person you are so angry loss his life? Those others I'm referring to are members in Congress such as John McCain and Lindsey Graham. But your attacks just seems to be narrowly directed. Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you really believe nobody in Congress knew about this action except those in the Administration?

 

quadrature

(2,049 posts)
16. when Holder says that a certain method of killing is legal,
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 03:47 AM
Mar 2013

it only means that DoJ won't go after the perps,
state law, and law in other countries,
still apply.

midnight

(26,624 posts)
24. I'm not saying your not right.... but how do you know that's what it is? The ACLU is now
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 07:14 PM
Mar 2013

having to investigate over the top swat team abuse against persons for which swat team force was never intended for....

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