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Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
Tue Sep 17, 2013, 07:58 PM Sep 2013

Big Oil is forcing lower quality gasoline on the market

http://www.ethanolproducer.com/articles/10237/ace-big-oil-is-forcing-lower-quality-gasoline-on-the-market


Ron Lamberty, senior vice president of the American Coalition for Ethanol, is warning consumers that recent changes in fuel supplied to the Midwest by oil companies will reduce the quality of gasoline available in many states.

“If people notice that their gas doesn’t seem as good as it used to be, it’s because the gas isn’t as good as it used to be.” Lamberty says. “The ethanol is exactly the same as it was last week, last month, or last year – but on Sept. 16, the octane of gasoline just got much lower, however consumers will pay the same as before.”

Most of the Midwest is served by the Magellan pipeline system, and oil companies that use that system recently decided to supply 84-octane gas as their ‘base’ gasoline instead of the 87 octane that has been the standard for as long as most of us remember. [font color="red"]84-octane gas can’t even be used in vehicles without adding high-octane ethanol or some very expensive premium gasoline to the low-octane fuel[/font].” said Lamberty. “The oil industry is claiming that these changes were necessary because of the renewable fuel standard (RFS), but there is absolutely nothing in the RFS that compels oil companies to reduce the quality of the fuel by lowering the octane. Oil companies are switching to 84-octane because it increases their profits and gives them complete control of ethanol and RINs. Oil refineries save a lot of money and get more gallons of 84-octane from a barrel than they get making 87-octane, and yet prices haven’t dropped in other U.S. markets where the change has already been made. Consumers won’t pay lower prices for these lower-octane fuels, the oil companies will just make more money.”

“The news gets even worse for consumers. This change also means gas station owners will no longer be able to buy 84-octane gasoline and save money by buying ethanol and blending it themselves. Now, oil companies have complete control over how and when ethanol is blended. [font color="red"]As a result, gas stations will have to pay whatever the oil company wants to charge for the pre-blended E10 or pay the oil company a much higher price for the sub-octane gasoline, putting any savings from lower-priced ethanol in the pockets of Big Oil[/font],” [font color="blue"](or instead of lowering the price for consumers_Bill USA) [/font]explained Lamberty. “The only way consumers can share in the lower price of ethanol is by buying E85 or E15, and Big Oil is doing everything they can to make sure consumers aren’t even offered that choice.”
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Big Oil is forcing lower quality gasoline on the market (Original Post) Bill USA Sep 2013 OP
I don't know about this particular problem, but I do know that ethanol is not the answer. NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #1
I concure, verify before trust. liberal N proud Sep 2013 #2
Here's a newspaper source Newsjock Sep 2013 #3
. blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #4
They're describing RBOB jmowreader Sep 2013 #5
When I went to Colorado in May 2013, I notice a lot of 85 Octane gasoline happyslug Sep 2013 #6
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
1. I don't know about this particular problem, but I do know that ethanol is not the answer.
Tue Sep 17, 2013, 08:04 PM
Sep 2013

The source, "Ethanol Producer", might just have a bias, so I'd take this with a grain of salt.

I don't think this could happen in California where blends are pretty strictly monitored.

Newsjock

(11,733 posts)
3. Here's a newspaper source
Tue Sep 17, 2013, 08:12 PM
Sep 2013

Source: Aberdeen (S.D.) American News

Within two months, regular unleaded 87-octane gasoline won't exist in South Dakota. Federal rules mandate that it will be mixed with ethanol, and that is expected to bring the price per gallon down.

This week, the Nu-Star and Magellan pipelines, which supply the upper Midwest with fuel, will transition from 87-octane unleaded gasoline to 84-octane gasoline, which must be mixed with 10 percent ethanol to make it 87-octane oxygenated gasoline, said Dawna Leitzke, executive director of the South Dakota Petroleum and Propane Marketers Association.

... The people most affected by the change are people driving old cars or classic cars, whose only option will be the more expensive 91-octane premium unleaded because those engines were not built to run on ethanol-treated gasoline, according to Kusler.

... South Dakota is one of the last states in the country to still offer regular 87-octane, Leitzke said. More than half of the U.S. has already made the switch, she said.

Read more: http://articles.aberdeennews.com/2013-09-16/news/42123561_1_percent-ethanol-propane-marketers-association-dawna-leitzke

jmowreader

(50,528 posts)
5. They're describing RBOB
Tue Sep 17, 2013, 10:41 PM
Sep 2013

GO to http://www.argusmedia.com/~/media/Files/PDFs/Meth/argus_us_products.ashx and scroll to page 9, where they describe the various gasolines they sell...among them:

83.7-octane Reformulated Gasoline Blendstock for Oxygenate Blending (RBOB)
83.5-octane Conventional Gasoline Blendstock for Oxygenate Blending (CBOB)
87-octane Conventional Gasoline
89-octane Conventional Gasoline
91-octane CBOB
91.3-octane RBOB
93-octane Conventional Gasoline

This is the thing they are not telling you: in most of the country, RBOB is exactly what goes down the pipeline, and there are advantages to doing it this way: instead of there being a separate pipeline for every brand of gasoline, there's one big pipeline and the local gasoline distributors add their own company's additive packages. (Incidentally, if you want 87-octane non-ethanol gas, they need only mix 40 percent of 91.3-octane RBOB with 60 percent 83.7-octane RBOB.)

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
6. When I went to Colorado in May 2013, I notice a lot of 85 Octane gasoline
Wed Sep 18, 2013, 12:09 AM
Sep 2013

I assumed it was due to higher attitude (but the next question how would lowering the Octane at higher attitude affect gasoline performance?). In my home area of Johnstown PA the lowest we see is 87 octane (Engine performance can go down as you go higher in the atmosphere, but this is do to the air having less oxygen to mix with the fuel NOT anything to do with the fuel, the the heights needed to require a different fuel mixing system is found in the Andes in South America NOT in Denver Colorado).

Thus my assumption was wrong (i.e. I assumed the lower octane could be used do to the higher attitude but that was WRONG, heights were not high enough to make a difference and the difference relates to oxygen in the air NOT the octane of the Fuel).

Now during WWII, octane was set by the US Army for its vehicles at 89 octane, the reason was simple, aircraft had been using that level of octane since 1936 (Fighters and Bombers could have up to 130 octane but the DC-3/C-47 transport engines were set to be used with 89 octane).

Prior to WWII, we had all types of Octane levels. As late as 1954, the average Octane for "Regular" in the US was 79 (Many states already required 89), but as the 1950s progressed, 89 became what most gasoline makers aimed for (Automobile engines were increasingly designed for 87, to give them a 2 octane knock safety net).

When the 1960s hit, you had cars designed to use up to 130 octane, but with the switch to unleaded gasoline in 1974, 87 became the low for most "Regular" gasoline in the US.

Remember the higher the octane, the more powerful you can make the engine (Mostly by increasing pressure within the engine via the Carburetor, Turbo-Charger or Super-Charger in the short term, in the long term just designing the engine around that higher octane number).

Higher octane, by itself can NOT make the engine more powerful, but once you have higher octane fuel, you can design the engine and its fuel system around the higher octane fuel to produce more power.

Lowering the Octane of the fuel, requires similar changes to the engine and its fuel intake systems, this time to reflect that the fuel is NOT as rich (and thus the engine has to be made less powerful).

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