Conservative parents, left wing children.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

Dennis Prager is whining about conservative parents who send their kids off to college and the kids reject their "conservative values"??

This is news? This is what education leads to?? Pearl-clutching parents?


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/363082/conservative-parents-left-wing-children-dennis-prager

My parents were Democrats, Dad voted for Norman Thomas way back in 1932, so I didn't really have to rebel. Sure saved me a lot of energy, as my folks were already against the Vietnam War, and we went to a liberal protestant church, but we were not very religious. They never told me I had to get baptized or anything that was an ultimatum.

I had cousins who went to Baylor University (Baptist), and my parents were horrified and told me they'd never send their kids to a conservative religious school. The girls couldn't wear shorts or slacks on campus at Baylor. They said they'd either send me to a Presbyterian college like Trinity U. in San Antonio, or Southern Methodist University in Dallas. My two best girlfriends in high school went to the same church I did, and they went to Austin College, which is another Presbyterian college in Texas.

My daughter is a college graduate and she's an agnostic liberal. Her dad is a politically conservative atheist. I'm a Unitarian-Universalist atheist who studies Buddhism.

[Rozlee]

1. My heart bleeds.

Not. Old Dennis Prager can cry until the cows come home about how his once pristine conservative kids were corrupted by liberal ideas. I call it enlightened.

[bemildred]

2. Prager is an inarticulate moron.

I do remember it was still a big deal when I was young whether one ought to marry outside "your religion".

But many people have stopped identifying with their religion, it's more of a "lifestyle choice" now.

I had a roomate once who later left and went to Baylor. I remember our conversations now:

Me: long rambling naive rationalist arguments ....

Him: No, you're wrong.

Repeat til you get tired.

[JDPriestly]

3. I'm a Unitarian-Universalist too.

We married as Unitarians, and we raised our children in a Unitarian Church. Although grown, very grown, they are still in touch with their friends from Church, the friends they made in high school.

Recently, I had a chance to meet several of those "kids." What wonderful people they have become. Did they rebel? In their own ways, they explored who they are and made their own choices. And that is as it should be. But none of them ended up in jail. Several of them are happily married and have wonderful children of their own. Others have careers in which they serve their fellow man and make the world a better place.

Love conquers all. And when you focus on love and not on ideology or saying the "right" words, speaking the code on Sunday morning but rather on how your feel and interact with others and the world, you just can't go wrong for very long. That seems to be the lesson I learned from watching my children grow up as Unitarian-Universalists.

Who knows whether the Bible is just a collection of beautiful stories or some mystical perfect truth? Do we really need to know? If it is a mystical perfect truth how would our acknowledging that fact or "believing" that fact, assuming it to be true, change anything. The important thing is how we live. And the Bible's guidance on that is either contradictory on some issues or very general and positive on others. I prefer to ignore the contradictions and follow the general admonition to Love thy Neighbor as Thyself. You just can't go wrong with that. Although it is sometimes very hard to do.

So these conservatives should just love their children and if they are inclined to pray, pray that God guide their children to do the right thing and then just let their children grow up and become themselves. That is the best way to help your children. If they are not inclined to pray, then they should just wish the best for their children. That's my advice for what it is worth which may not seem to be much to conservatives.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

4. Yeah, there are many problems with Christianity.

I can't deal with it anymore, as you have to ignore the contradictory and irrational parts of the bible. Like the false starting premise that you are a worthless POS because you're breathing, because of a couple of fruit-munching idiots in a fairy tale that didn't even exist. It's all about controlling people with guilt and shame. Because you need substitutionary atonement. An imaginary solution for an imaginary problem.

No, I don't need some half-assed preacher attempting to destroy my self-esteem just because it's a socially acceptable thing to subject yourself to on Sundays. Society and various people have been busy for decades trying to destroy my self-esteem because of their narcissism, projections, their own hang-ups and sexism. I will no longer subject myself to verbal abuse. I walked away from church many years ago, after I realized how corrosive it was to hope and positive attitudes.

To me that is hypocrisy. You should have a philosophy that has no contradictions in it, so you don't have to stand up and recite a creed you don't completely believe in. I've had many Christians here on DU rant about how "all moral creeds have contradictions" and other dishonest thinking. They've practically said you can believe anything and be a Christian, which is absolutely not true. And they rationalize away all the hateful stuff that Jesus allegedly said. They are full of duplicitous thinking and logical fallacies.


I want them to think about what they believe, and why they believe it, and they accuse me of hating everything about Christianity and wanting it to disappear. That is not true. I listen to lots of sacred music in Latin, pieces by such artists as Anonymous Four and the Tallis Scholars. I love to go to old cathedrals and look at the beautiful art and architecture that people created because of their faith. I love to soak up the peaceful vibe.


My distinctions between the ridiculous doctrines and beliefs of Christianity and the art and music created for the Catholic church are too subtle for some people to understand here on DU.

If you're a secular humanist, you think people should be good to each other because it's the right thing to do. There is no contradiction there.

Lin Yutang wrote a wonderful book in 1936 called "The Importance of Living". His parents were Christian missionaries and he became a Taoist, because he thought being a good person on promise of a reward in heaven was ridiculous.


Quoting from the book: "All I know is that if God loves me half as much as my mother does, he will not send me to Hell." From the chapter "Why I am a Pagan".

I don't think I need to know much more than that.

[jmowreader]

7. If Neidermeier wouldn't have been fragged he'd be a televangelist today

"You're all worthless and weak!" is the foundation of Christianity. All of it.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

8. Who is this Niedermeier you speak of?

I know Billy Graham's original evangelizing partner decided it was all bullshit and became an atheist.

His name was Charles Templeton.

[jmowreader]

10. You didn't see Animal House?

Douglas C. Neidermeier was one of the principal antagonists in that fine classic film. He was a dickhead ROTC cadet commander and an officer of the Omega House, and at the end of the film in the "where are they now?" section (where we find that most of the members of the zoo fraternity Delta Tau Chi all became upstanding citizens and all the members of the preppy Omega House met bad ends), we learned Neidermeier was "killed in Vietnam by his own troops."

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. Yeah, I saw Animal House several times.

I'd forgotten who Neidermeier was.

Yes, it's a fine classic film. Very intellectual, too.

Consumer Guide: "How to Select a Cucumber" featuring Dean Wormer's wife.

Other great intellectual films: Borat, Idiocracy, Office Space, Airplane! and Blazing Saddles.

And other National Lampoon films, where "Griswold" is a verb. We Griswold the house every December. (I live with an electronics nut!!)

[Doctor_J]

14. I dunno. Many who survived Nam combat became anti-war

Niedermeier might have become Ron Kovic or Oliver Stone

[jmowreader]

15. Not him. He would have become Adrian Cronauer.

Context here: remember the in-ranks inspection where he tore Flounder a new asshole for, among other things, "A pledge pin! On your uniform! Now tell me mister, what fraternity would pledge a 'man' like you?" After he got back on his horse he screamed, "you're all worthless and weak!"

Well, the basis of religion is the supposition that you're all worthless and weak and the only way to fix it is to join our group.

All the 12-step groups operate the same way. Look at the First Step: we admitted we were powerless over whatever it is the group is against.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. Very astute psychological analysis.

I always thought 12-step groups were demeaning because of the admission of powerlessness. You've tied it to religion as well. Bravo!

People who were taught to conform are sheep. Since in the babble you can kill a disobedient child, right?? And you have to break their will.

[Myrina]

5. They shouldn't be so intimidated ...

.... if they know and truly believe that 'their way' is the right way, they should have 100% confidence that exposing their offspring to 'liberal ideas' isn't going to sway them. Additionally, if indeed they are the good parents they claim to be, they would embrace their child being able to draw their own conclusion about whatever is presented at school.

Are they so insecure they can't even bear the thought of their kids knowing who Howard Zinn is? (cough cough Mitch Daniels is an asshole cough cough) Or do they know, deep down, that what they 'believe' about how the world works is bullshit?

[Fearless]

6. Ignorance breeds conservatism.

[paulkienitz]

9. conservatism and ignorance each feed the other

and the thing that undermines conservatism the most is broad availability of information. TV was a shock to conservatism, though a manageable one because it's centrally controlled. Mobile-device internet is going a long way to finish it off in the generations coming up. In the US, know-nothing fundie conservatism is now, I believe, no longer able to indoctrinate the next generation with any good success rate, and before too much longer the problem for conservatives will be getting pretty bad even in places like Iran.

[Fearless]

11. And the wealthy feed off both

[Manifestor_of_Light]

13. The clerk at the dollar store today told me the President is a Muslim.

With no trace of sarcasm. Then he said "He's appointed Muslims to National Security posts."

My response: "Bullshit. Fox News is lying to you and they want to keep you in fear."

His response: "I do not live in a spirit of fear." I recognized the Bible verse, so he must be a Jesus freak. And he has a bachelor's degree in history and computer science.

He started talking to me and hubby saying, "You sound like you're educated." So we explained that we each have 3 degrees, he has a master's and I have a doctorate. Then it went into agreeing that both parties are bought off. Then he said the country was in bad shape, but he was still really vague.

Speaking of ignorance. I've met several people here who are college graduates, but apparently 4 years of college didn't change their bigotry and racism.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

16. College doesn't change some people.

AAARRRGGHHH!