Claim of Fewer Tesla Fires Questioned in MIT Report

[Mother Muckraker]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-11-21/musk-claim-of-fewer-tesla-fires-questioned-in-early-mit-research

Because only 4 percent of vehicle fires are caused by collisions, Tesla’s Model S sedan, with a rechargeable lithium-ion battery, is statistically more likely to catch fire in those incidents than cars with gasoline tanks, wrote Kevin Bullis, senior editor for energy for MIT Technology Review.

One in 32,603 registered vehicles catches fire compared with 1 in 6,333 of the Model S, Bullis said in a blog post today, using U.S. government data. Fewer than 1 percent of registered vehicles are plug-in electrics.

Elon Musk's claim that the Model S is far less prone to fire is deceptive and completely false.

[Scuba]

1. Is this the only issue that interests you?

[Mother Muckraker]

5. That's not a valid question.

It's a fact that Musk has lied about a number of issues to sell his car as detailed in prior posts about Tesla.

[Scuba]

9. Yeah, it is.

I've seen you post several threads alleging problems with the Tesla but absolutely nothing on any other topic.

Democratic Underground is a place for Democrats and other progressives to interact on issues across the spectrum. I don't believe it's intended as a place for you to grind your axe on one and one issue only.

That said, I'm not an "owner" of DU, and I won't alert on your threads, but it'd be nice to see something from you besides "Tesla's awful!!!!".

[Mother Muckraker]

11. "Only Tesla" is a lie. A search shows it.

I've seen you post several threads alleging problems with the Tesla but absolutely nothing on any other topic.

That's a lie. A search on my threads will show that to be false as well as a search on Google and you know my Twitter account.

What I post are facts about a cult figure.

Alert on my threads if you wish. No big deal.

[NYC_SKP]

2. How much is the petroleum industry paying Mr. Bullis to make these findings?

TESLA has enough resistance as it is.

But he will win in the end.

[Mother Muckraker]

4. How much is the coal industry....

Those stats are from the government. They weren't manufactured. If you're alleging that Bullis was somehow paid by the petroleum industry, you should post something to back up your claim.

[NYC_SKP]

6. “also probably too early to make the reverse claim - that the Model S is more likely to catch..."

From the author himself:

“It’s also probably too early to make the reverse claim -- that the Model S is more likely to catch on fire.”

No conclusions can be made this early in the game.

Coal industry, indeed.

Musk gets no love from any fossil fuel industry.

[Mother Muckraker]

7. And how much of our electricity still comes from burning coal?

Yes, it's early in the game and it just may be a bit of bad luck that all 3 fires happened within a short time frame. Most of the Model S are in California with no fires so far. But keep in mind, the Leaf and Volt have no fires with many more cars on the road.

Tesla is also being investigated for possible SEC violation of what looks to be burying a GAAP loss beneath pages of non-GAAP numbers.

There's also an investigation of the workplace by OSHA for the recent accident.


Also, Tesla expects to sell their cars in China & they're electricity is about 70% coal.

[NYC_SKP]

8. Coal? Less than 2% for me. 37.4% for US last year. China ain't in this discussion.

The amount of coal generating the electricity each of us uses depends upon the energy mix for the utility company delivering the electrons.

Coal is on the way out for the US and the amount of electricity the Tesla uses isn't even on their radar.

[Mother Muckraker]

13. Coal use went down; but some say it's on the way up.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2013/11/13/3313136/us-coal-use-rises-a-bit-as-natural.html

“The increase in coal consumption this year is mainly due to the electric power sector, which burned more coal because of higher natural gas prices. Most of the growth in coal consumption this year is expected to be met by drawing down 35 million short tons in domestic coal inventories .U.S. coal production is forecast to increase by 2.7% next year as inventories stabilize and coal consumption increases.”

I hope they're wrong ^^

When Tesla considers themselves the leader to end global warming (as they have stated in their mission statement), China figures prominently in any discussion of Tesla and what they're stated goals and unstated goals are. China is world's leader in coal production and U.S. is still in 2nd.

http://thediplomat.com/2013/11/how-us-companies-benefit-from-chinas-coal-addiction/

In 2011, China accounted for 47% of world coal consumption, with the U.S. in a distant second at 12%. Between 2008 and 2012, China’s coal consumption increased by 34% while the U.S.’s went down by 20%. According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), U.S. coal consumption is projected to fall by 14% between 2011 and 2017. Meanwhile, China’s coal consumption is expected to double between 2011 and 2035, as China’s overall energy use continues its rapid rise.

Hopefully the IEA is correct that coal use will decline, but a 14% decline is not enough. 14% decline from 2011-17 is not even close to being "on its way out" . In the meantime,the Tesla Model S will mostly be charged from home and driven over those years consuming coal.

What is irrelevant in this discussion is your personal use.

[Dawson Leery]

3. -1

[4now]

10. It received the highest possible crash-test ratings from U.S. regulators this year

"It received the highest possible crash-test ratings from U.S. regulators this year as well as the highest scores among all vehicles for performance and customer satisfaction from Consumer Reports magazine. "
The article doesn't seem to say what you think that it does.
Nowhere does it say that EM's claim is completely false. Just a different way of looking at the numbers.

[Mother Muckraker]

12. NHTSA clamps down on auto safety ratings above 5 stars - Tesla's "5.4 star" fabricated rating

http://www.autonews.com/article/20131121/OEM11/131129946/nhtsa-clamps-down-on-auto-safety-ratings-above-5-stars#axzz2lOqcC6cO

DETROIT (Reuters) -- U.S. regulators blocked automakers from promoting vehicle safety ratings of more than 5 stars, three months after Tesla Motors Inc. touted an outsized score on its Model S electric car.

The move adds to simmering tensions between the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Tesla, now grappling with bad publicity and a federal probe after a series of car fires raised questions about the safety of the Model S.

Tesla said in late August that the Model S had achieved a score of 5.4 stars, a figure based on Tesla's independent analysis of NHTSA data.

Tesla Gets Creative With Model S Safety Rating & Ruins It For Everyone
http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1088647_tesla-gets-creative-with-model-s-safety-rating-ruins-it-for-everyone

[Mother Muckraker]

14. Tesla Model S charging system may have started garage blaze

This is the 4th fire on 11/15/13

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131219/CARNEWS/131219847

A fire department in Southern California said a garage fire may have been caused by an overheated charging system in a

Tesla Model S sedan, in the latest link between the top selling electric car and the potential for fire.

While Tesla Motors Inc. contends the fire was not related to the car or its charging system, the Orange County Fire Authority said the Tesla-supplied charging system or the connection at the electricity panel on the wall of the garage of a single-family home could have caused the fire.

"The fire occurred as a result of an electrical failure in the charging system for an electric vehicle," said a report by the fire authority, a copy of which was obtained by Reuters.