TYT: Cenk brings it on: 5 year olds with guns.

[longship]

Last edited Sun May 5, 2013, 06:24 AM - Edit history (2)

I have been a big fan of The Young Turks for some time. Cenk Uygur is one of the good guys and has put together a damned good media empire.

Here he talks about the tragic killing of a two year old by her five year old rifle-owning brother.

This is new media at its best. Highly recommended!

[cantbeserious]

1. That The NRA Supports "responsible" Gun Ownership By 5 Year Olds Says It All

eom

[colorado_ufo]

25. What I hear, in this story, is that the boy got the gun LAST YEAR

and was used to shooting it. My friends, THAT WOULD MAKE HIM FOUR YEARS OLD WHEN HE GOT THE GUN.

Probably two years out of potty training.

CANNOT READ.

CANNOT SPELL.

CANNOT REASON, AS HE HAS NO LIFE EXPERIENCE.

The parents are morons.

[faithnomore]

2. The gun is called a "Cricket"

And it's marketed for kids. It even comes in pink for girls.

[spicegal]

3. We're pretty sick and seem to be getting sicker, well some of us anyway, most particularly those

who buy into the NRA propaganda. I was in a WalMart not long ago and saw a BB gun made to look like an AR-15, AND yes, it was marketed toward CHILDREN It made me want to vomit. But, shame on parents for putting something like that in the hands of their child. What kind of messages are we sending. Guns are toys?? Guns ( and therefore violence) are the solution to our problems?? Guns will protect us?? We know beyond a shadow of doubt that a gun in the home put you and your family at much greater risk for injury or death from that gun. It's insane.

[DrDan]

4. plenty of no-age limit supporters right here . . . they support

their insanity with anecdotal evidence - "I learned to shoot at 6 . . . never shot anyone . . . .teaching my 7-year-old daughter right now and bought her her own rifle . . . out in rural America this is common"

[bossy22]

9. Actually it is the other way around

this story (the shooting of the 2 year old) is the anecdotal evidence. Most evidence out there supports the fact that these type of shootings are extremely rare.

Also, what is wrong with buying a rifle to teach your young son or daughter how to shoot? Parents buy many things for their children that are only to be used under adult supervision (would you let your 5 year old launch model rockets all by him/herself?). The problem comes down to bad parental decisions. The kid should have never had unsupervised/uncontrolled access to a loaded firearm. But i fail to see how this is any different from a parent who's kid drowns in the family pool due to no supervision. Many people are reading way too much into this.

[jjewell]

10. I know you were not addressing your reply to me, but I have a response...

Last edited Sun May 5, 2013, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)

"Also, what is wrong with buying a rifle to teach your young son or daughter how to shoot?"

When the child is old enough and mature enough to handle a real adult sized rifle, you may have a point. But a kindergartner? Hell no.

"Parents buy many things for their children that are only to be used under adult supervision (would you let your 5 year old launch model rockets all by him/herself?).

I played with and launched model rockets unsupervised as a young child. They were powered by vinegar and baking soda. My parents had sense enough not to give a 5 year old a model rocket powered by a black-powder motor. They also gave me a Mattel toy gun that fired plastic bullets and used "greenie stickem caps", but no, not a live firing, lethal, .22 caliber, bolt action rifle for a 5 year old.

"The problem comes down to bad parental decisions."

On that, I ABSOLUTELY agree.

"But i fail to see how this is any different from a parent who's kid drowns in the family pool due to no supervision."

A pool doesn't pickup a kid and drown him. The kid picked up HIS OWN GUN, and accidentally killed his baby sister.

I will not address the "extremely rare" portion of your post...

[bossy22]

21. Why is it wrong for a 5 year old to shoot a small 22 rifle under adult supervision?

Why is it wrong for a parent to buy a rifle that is suitable for the kid to learn on?

It is not like giving the kid a container of a highly volatile liquid that could explode any second, a gun is user dependent. It becomes dangerous when there is a lack of supervision. This is no different then and son wood working project- you don't actually believe that the father would let a 5 year old operate a table saw all by himself.

The only reason there is any hysteria over this is because it plays on emotions. people get the image of a kid keeping a gun in his room with ammunition. This is farther from the norm than you would think. When a parent "buys a kid a gun" it is usually kept in the parents safe, only to be used by the kid under direct supervision of the parent. the kid does not have access to it. It is not "his own gun" but more like his parent's gun which is specifically to be used by him only.

It comes down to the fact that the kid should not have had access to "his own gun"- not the fact that the kid had his "own" gun.

[jjewell]

24. I'd take you point if the kid...

was an unusually mature 8-10 year old. But a kindergartner? FIVE years old? Sorry, hell no.

Even Daisy Air Rifles doesn't recommend the possession of a BB rifle for a kid under 10 years old, and THEN only under the strict supervision of an adult. And you contend that their recommendation for a BB Rifle shouldn't apply to a fully functional, .22 caliber, bolt action rifle for a FIVE year old?? The idea of a child-sized fully functional bolt action rifle is ridiculous in my opinion. If the child is too young/small to handle an adult sized rifle, he's too young/small for weapons training.

And knowing what I know of 5 year old's, there is no way on god's green earth a 5 year old should even be told that a functional lethal weapon is HIS.

BTW, I liked your wood working analogy. It only breaks down when you recognize that nobody told the 5 year old that the table saw was HIS...

[colorado_ufo]

27. What is "extremely rare?"

Who determines those numerical borderlines, between "common," "average," "uncommon," "rare," and "extremely rare?"

How many children does it take to be of statistical significance?

If it were your own two-year-old who died, all the statistical analysis in the world would bring you no comfort.

[panzerfaust]

5. Can we please hear from a representative of the Gun Brigade - so that ...

... it can be explained how, compared to sane gun laws, this is really the best way to run our society?

In many states the parents who allowed unsupervised use of a firearm by a child leading to death would be facing criminal charges. Somehow I doubt that this is the case in Kentucky - although one can hope.


Please note the trajectory a round accidentally discharged by this Responsible Gun Owner would take. I believe this weapon is a "Cricket" the same as that used by the five-year old to kill his sister.

These are not toys people.

[bossy22]

22. who is promoting gun accidents to be the norm?

I don't know what you are looking for. I think you are hard pressed to find anyone who thinks unsupervised use of a gun by a 5 year old is a good idea. The evidence kind of speaks for itself

Why are you reading so much into this- it is a parenting fail- a MAJOR one. You don't need any training to be a parent, you don't need a license. These kinds of tragedies will always occur- and i don't just mean accidental gun deaths- All accidental child deaths due to bad parenting (drowning, poisoning, neglect...etc).

Ask yourself this, what if this was a drowning rather than a gun accident- the family had an outdoor pool that didn't have a fence around it, the two kids were "horsing around" near the edge of the pool (no parent in site) one of them falls in and drowns- Would you still be as outraged? Would you say that we are a "sick society" for letting people with little kids have unsecured pools?

[bonniebgood]

6. It ok to 'regulate' the weed but not the 2nd amendment. If this father

or mother bought a bag of weed for the five year old they would be in jail. My 2 cents are let the
rural america keep their guns traditions if your neighbors are five miles away. but should be banned 'regulated' if your neighbor is five feet away. Even liberal Ed Schultz conflates "tradition with the 2nd amendment"
Laws are you can't smoke a cigarette (public places) with your neighbor five feet away.
Reason: You might endanger your neighbor rights or health, but it's ok to have your gun, any gun in the same situation.
Your 'constitutional rights' be dammed if your neighbor 5 feet away wants to stockpile weapons in his apartment.
I disagree with glenbeck, god doesn't have to destroy (the USA) we have a congress,the NRa, the Koch's for that.
We are a diseased sick nation from it's beginning.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

7. "Guns don't kill people, five year olds do."

That was brilliant.

[zebonaut]

8. The problem is the sick culture of gun worship and glorification

Its sadly embedded in the culture; starts early from "faster than a speeding bullet"..... to the glorification and romanticsation of macho actors wielding dangerous weapons to show how cool and manly there are; we can blame characters embodied by Bruce Willis; Arnold Schwartzenegger; Sylvester Stallone; Tom Selleck.....the gun used as a general purpose problem-solver.

There has to be a change in this sick sick culture.

[Carolina]

11. Interesting that all the actors you

named are republican!

[bsiebs]

13. Dont forget Clint Eastwood...

Dirty Harry..... he has moved on to talking to empty chairs, but had a good run of glorifying guns in his past as well...

[aikoaiko]

12. Nobody's head explodes quite like Cenk's head explodes.

Whether it is a youth rifle, a handgun, a rifle or a shogun, it is the parent's responsibility to secure all weapons safely.

[IveWornAHundredPants]

14. Perhaps in this case the parents

had taught their child how to secure the weapon - but he neglected to do so! That would make it the five year old's responsibility. A responsibility he failed to discharge.

[aikoaiko]

15. Its the parent's responsibility.

The media is making a big deal of the idea that it was a gift to the child all that means (to most family's who give a rifle to a minor as a present) is that he could use it under supervision of the adult.

[jjewell]

17. Of course it's the parent's responsibility...

It is absolutely asinine to give a kindergartner the gift of a lethal weapon and tell him it's HIS. I've NEVER met a 5 year old that didn't understand the concept of "MINE" and "NOT MINE". Most 5 year old "fights" revolve around what they perceive as THEIRS and what is NOT THEIRS. I seriously doubt the 5 year old in this case would have picked up his Daddy's full sized carbine and accidentally shot his 2 year old baby sister. He picked up the gun because it was HIS.

Yes, the parents were irresponsible in leaving the weapon in the open and unlocked, but in my opinion, they were even MORE irresponsible for buying and presenting a kindergartner with a toy-sized deadly weapon that the child considered his OWN.

[bossy22]

23. why does the ownership psychology matter if the parent took proper care

to store the weapon in a safe manner? Put the gun in a safe that only the parents know, problem solved!!!! The kid was only able to pick up his gun because he had access to it. Guess what, a parent can make sure that the kid doesn't have access to the gun simply for the fact that, THEY ARE THE PARENT.

My father gave me many things when i was that age that came with the speech "this is yours but you cannot use it without me there with you". He then proceeded to lock it in his workshop in the basement. Sure I tried a few times to get in, but at age 6 I was not an expert locksmith so my attempts pretty much failed miserably.

When you are the parent you have that power- these parents obviously did not exercise it.

Households aren't democracies. There is no need to play with the "psychology" of the issue.

[jjewell]

16. Even if that were so...

You would actually trust a kindergartner to secure a .22 caliber, bolt action rifle?? And blame him for the failure to do so, resulting in the death of his 2 year old baby sister? Really??

[IveWornAHundredPants]

18. Oh my gosh, no.

I think it's fairly insane that he was allowed to so much as touch it. Kids that age, and even older, can't be trusted to put away their toys, much less secure any deadly killing weapons they may own.

[jjewell]

19. Thank you.

[colorado_ufo]

26. Absolutely.

They do not have the capacity for judgment. This is why they are not prosecuted as adults. The judicial system holds that they do not have the capacity to comprehend their actions.

That is why such young children should not be entrusted with lethat weapons or instruments, from rifles to lawn darts.

[longship]

20. Of COUR-R-R-R-RSE! You are right about Cenk.

[Kalidurga]

28. Why is it even legal to manufacture a gun that can be used by a child well under the age of 18?

We don't let children drink alcohol. So why do we allow manufactures to make guns that a child under 10 can shoot?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

29. I absolutely love Cenk. But whoever did that captioning software...it sucks!!

I can't believe how distracted I was by how wrong most of the captioning was.