Pic Of The Moment: USA Is A Center-Right Nation? Nope...

[EarlG]

GOP’s 30-year spin job is over: Why we are NOT a center-right nation

Follow @demunderground

[L0oniX]

1. K & R

[Amonester]

2. But, but, but, the billionaires-owned corporate-media cartels don't wanna...

tell anyone... so shhhhh

[rhett o rick]

3. Yes but those polls don't reflect how the voters vote. When the Corp-Media tells

them that the Republicans want to build a wall across our southern border, bingo-bango, they vote Republican.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

21. Exactly! How is it that Dems cannot make it clear to the public that Dems support

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the beliefs most of them hold while the Rs oppose them? We really need a better publicity department.

[freshwest]

49. I know. We used to say 'Alert the Media!' But we lost that ally years ago.

[elzenmahn]

62. The left wing has been NOTORIOUSLY BAD at the art of messaging...

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...while the right wing has it down to a science. It can be attributed to three things:

1. The Right Wing in this country has been, for the most part, favored by the business community - whose existence depends on good messaging (otherwise known as SELLING.) Spend less than one hour in front of the flat screen, at the commercials, and take note of how this messaging works - it's more insidious than many even realize. Check out Edward Bernay's Propaganda for how messaging (aka PR) has been distilled down to a science over the last century. The Left Wing needs to take a few notes - Thom Hartmann has written extensively on this subject.
2. From my observation those on the left tend to see things in a more nuanced, shades-of-grey fashion. Their messaging, then, assumes that the masses have the sophistication to understand complex concepts. Our declining, perpetually underfunded education system has seen to it that the masses, at least today, lack that capacity - something that the right wing has used to full effect. Notice how "bumper sticker" the speeches of righty politicians tend to be (pick nearly any of them) - everything is distilled down to simple words and phrases that can be easily repeated (and remembered.) The left has attempted to move into this direction - remember Obama's stump speeches in 2010, when he used the analogy of the automatic transmission (R for Reverse, D for Drive/Forward)? Even Ralph Nader's 2004 campaign was becoming more simplistic in it's messaging, in part by attempting to appeal to the frustration of the disaffected with that irritating "hold your nose and vote" song that would play at his campaign stops. Simplifying and distilling the message, and making it easy to remember while in the ballot box, will be a skill to be mastered by the left wing in the coming elections.
3. Note how the Right Wing appeals to emotions than pure reason? That, again, comes directly from the advertising and public relations world. This is how the shiny keys of God, Guns, Gays, and Gyno, have been used to distract the masses from the true Republican agenda: theft of the commons and destruction of the middle class. This is, in many ways, why "reason" doesn't seem to matter on the Right side of the fence. The Left Wing has the facts on its side. It has a mass of disaffected, despair-filled, even angry masses, waiting for the right message stated in the right way. The facts, combined with an emotional appeal that the masses can connect with their own lives, will prove to be an unbeatable combination - especially when delivered by somebody with credibility (look at Elizabeth Warren's appeal).

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

68. Agreed on all 3 points! Though I find it massively annoying

that marketers can make something lousy sound good to large numbers of people, I can't deny the fact that they can. And, as you say, the RWers have mastered those techniques, whereas the left often tries to be more realistic and appeal to reason.

I hope the Democrats will take a lesson from Ms. Warren, but I'm not confident they will.

[progressoid]

55. Or the Corp-Media tells them that Obama is a socialist.

And sochalism is baaaaad.

[Major Hogwash]

65. Obama is from Kenya.

Yet, not one major news outlet reported to the public that this particular sick lie was untrue in 2008.
Instead, they just ignored that it was being repeated over and over again at public meetings and political rallies so that it would fester like an open wound.

Then in 2010, a full 2 years after President Obama was first elected President, the Tea Party coalition regrouped and formed within the racist Republican ranks in order to hijack President Obama's agenda to repair all of the damage done over a 8 year period after this country was led to the sewer by the Bush administration!

[Drunken Irishman]

67. Yup. Ask what the most important issue to voters are and things change dramatically...

Sure, you can get a consensus on these numbers - but how important are they to the average voter?

Do you think a good portion of of Americans put marriage equality as their top issue? Probably not (sadly - really).

Clearly if these people voted solely on economic issues, Democrats would be an unbeatable party. But it's clear they don't.

[rock]

4. It's nice to have one's gut supported by evidence

Otherwise I might as well be a repiggie!

[Dustlawyer]

5. Since the 1% own the politicians it doesn't matter

what we think, nothing will happen on these issues.

If you are as fed up as I am, spread the word that we will protest outside of TV and radio stations around the country Sept 13th - Nov 4th and beyond to get the $ out of our elections. I am tired of our FORMER Representatives representing Donors instead. Let's use the money against the Candidates by putting them on posters and asking what do they have to do for that $!

WE CAN DO THIS, let's change the conversation!

[LittleGirl]

6. I wished those people would vote

right?

[swilton]

7. Views of the 'public'

and views of the political elites who rule our country are mutually exclusive.

[samsingh]

8. and yet the gop still manages to get its way

something is seriously wrong.

[onehandle]

9. USA Is A Center-Stupid Nation.

Voting should be a requirement for citizenship.

This Fall will be proof. When the majority of voters will be uninformed, angry, and rabid gun toting 'morans.'

[progressoid]

56. Yep, the stupid ones come out and vote in droves.

[alp227]

10. yet how many of those people who support these positions won't identify as "liberal"

thanks to non-stop parading of "liberal" as a dirty word by fox news & talk radio? the frustrating thing is: although lots of people support the substance of liberalism, feminism, etc. they are afraid of the style (identifying as liberal, feminist, etc)

[aggiesal]

13. I get into the same discussions when I mention that they're socialist ...

and they don't know it.

Then I ask these questions:
[Font color=Red]Do you support the military? Yes
Do you believe military veterans deserve the best health care? Yes
Do you support your local police, sheriff and state troopers? Yes
Do you support your local fire department? Yes
Do you want local libraries? Yes
Did you attend public schools growing up? Most say Yes
Do you support your public school teachers? Most say Yes[/font]

Then you believe in socialism!

I'm sure there are more, but those are the most obvious.

[Lochloosa]

15. The Eisenhower Interstate System.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

[aggiesal]

19. Good one! I should add that to the lust of questions ...

Do you believe in public roads?
Do you believe in a sewer system?
Do you believe I a public postal system?
...
Basically all the publuc infrastructure.

[JDPriestly]

32. public partks?

[aggiesal]

47. Another good one ...

Do you believe we should preserve local public parks, state parks and national parks?

Keep adding to the list !!!

[JDPriestly]

48. Sorry. I had my cataracts removed and I'm trying to pretend that I see better than

I really do. I just do not want to have to wear reading glasses. (I see double a lot with my new lenses.)

public parks of all kinds should be saved. I think people are quite willing to vote for taxes to fund useful things.

[Enthusiast]

70. I hope you do well now, after your surgery.

[sprts]

18. Not sure you understand

The definition of socialism. Most nations have police, fire, and teachers that are employed by gov., that dosn't make them all socialist nations. The definition of socialism is when the government "controls" the means of production. Communism is when the government "owns" the means of production. Social programs are not the same thing as socialism. This is why it is so laughable when rebugs say we are becoming a socialist nation, when there is not a single industry that the gomerment controls.

[aggiesal]

23. As I understand it ...

Socialism is when the government owns controls and pays for the service,
while communism is when the government owns, controls and tells you what you need.

I'll agree that not all social programs are socialism, but social programs that are run by the government, where the government owns the property, the employees are paid by the government are socialist to the core. Thom Hartmann talks about this all the time.

The military, and the police & fire departments along with the VA hospitals are purely socialistic, and are probably the only pure socialistic programs in the US.

[sprts]

24. Ok -

So what you are saying is that all nations are socialist, and they are not. Socialism is when the government tells the industry this is how many widgets you will make and this is the price you will charge for each widget. I am only regergitating political science from college

[DireStrike]

38. The definition of socialism is extremely stretchy, but your definition of communism is just made up.

Socialism can mean anything from Obama's policies to communism, depending on who you ask.

But nobody uses that definition of communism except hard rightists, and people who don't really understand anything about communism but are looking to score quick points in a nation that has been demonizing it for a century.

The actual definition of communism is a classless, stateless society. As for "socialism", I think we need to give that word up for lost. Every single person has their own definition, pretty much.

[sprts]

40. What you are defining

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as communism has not ever been practiced in the real world. That is a good definition of communism as written about in the communist manifesto but it has never been practiced outside of the communes of the 1960's. If you believe that there are no classes and no state in Russia, then you are on a fools errand.

[brett_jv]

42. You seem to be thinking only in terms of an overall 'government label' ...

When no such thing needs to be applied. The things in the list you're responding to are simply 'socialist' in their basic nature. Governments can have 'socialistic programs' even if they don't overall fit the profile of a 'socialist government'. The MORE of these programs they enact, the more 'socialist' they can be said to be overall ... but there's never been a purely socialist (or communist) government in the world (nor purely capitalist either), and likely never will be. It's always a question of 'degrees', and it's in fact the 'degree' to which it's 'appropriate' to enact socialistic programs that the left and right are always arguing about.

[sprts]

64. You need to read the

Whole conversation. It starts with the first responce that if you believe in police, firemen, ect, then you are a socialist. That would make almost the entire planet socialists, wich they are not. It only contributes to the further dumbing down of our language. The right has been throwing this word around for my entire life, and using it incorrectly. To many on the left have accepted the dumbing down of this word. It has a meaning, please respect it.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

69. Great points. Even if the newcomer is missing them.

[DireStrike]

52. Nobody said the soviet union was communist

...except of course, for the party leaders, and stubborn partisans with the "my team is always right" mentality.

Leftists today are sorted into various positions by their answers to the question of why the attempts in the 20th century at surpassing capitalism failed, and have a variety of different answers for what the USSR was. But to say that communism is always and forever a certain thing because some failed state said so is a bad conclusion. It'd be like reading Bush's "clear skies act" and concluding "man, clear skies suck!"

[socialist_n_TN]

59. Why are you using a definition of communism (or socialism for that matter)......

as applying to Russia in the present tense? Russia hasn't even CLAIMED to be either socialist OR communist in about 20 years.

And as Dire Strike said in another response to your post, even when Russia was the USSR, many people would argue that it wasn't ANYTHING like Marx and Engels envisioned as communism or even socialism.

There are a lot of Marxists on this board. You might want to do some woodshedding and figure out exactly what it means when you come on here and argue about the definitions of "communism" and "socialism".

[eridani]

75. For 40 years, conservatives have been calling any public good socialist

Many think that socialism means that all goods should be public goods.

[War Horse]

37. Heh. I was walking past our public library the other day

As I often do on my way to the gym. Was actually thinking that such a building is a symbol of "socialism" to some. I spent almost every day in there for a year after HS. I screwed up a lot of things in HS, so I decided to 'better myself' afterwards. Went from Ds to Bs and As. Got a decent education afterwards. I guess you can say that I pulled myself up by the... Well, you know what I mean.

I've basically been the proverbial 'productive' member of society since then, apart from a period when I was unemployed and on 'benefits'. During which time I learned how to use some new (to me) SW, revisited some old skills, and eventually became self-employed, which I have been ever since.

I suppose I should be an RWers wet dream in some respects. But apparently I'm their worst nightmare.

[kansasobama]

11. Well, this is half-truth

Everything in the poll is correct except..... But, the catch is, everyone thinks it is the other person's fault. GOP Seniors oppose social security cuts to themselves but they are fine with cuts to others. We support stronger EPA regulations but do not want taxes going for it.

In short, people want Democratic values with Republican fiscal policies. Take the case of Obama getting flogged for Iraq policy. People want us out of Iraq but also want control over Iraq.

USA is a center-left nation controlled by 2% hard-right powers, 50% apathetic voters, and many yearning for all benefits with zero taxes.

[Jamaal510]

33. This.

"In short, people want Democratic values with Republican fiscal policies. Take the case of Obama getting flogged for Iraq policy. People want us out of Iraq but also want control over Iraq.

USA is a center-left nation controlled by 2% hard-right powers, 50% apathetic voters, and many yearning for all benefits with zero taxes."

[JDPriestly]

36. I disagree with this statement.

"many yearning for all benefits with zero taxes."

Most people are quite willing to pay taxes when they understand the benefits they receive from the taxes they pay.

I object to paying taxes for, for example, the NSA surveillance program. I don't see that I or the majority of Americans receive any benefits from that program, certainly not benefits that justify the expense. That is also true of our many wars around the world. There are a number of costly programs that our government conducts that are of utterly no use or advantage to the average American.

On the other hand, we may moan a bit about the amounts of our taxes, but most of us do not mind paying taxes that maintain parks, police, fire and emergency services or that repair streets, roads and sidewalks or maintain public schools. I always paid gladly for Social Security and Medicare.

It's the waste in defense (we do need defense but we don't need a presence in quite so many remote areas of the world) that is the big problem. It's the corruption and cost over-runs that make people cynical.

But I don't think that ordinary people mind paying their fair share of taxes nearly as much as the Republicans would have us believe. It's the rich who are obsessed with money in the first place (and that is why they are rich) who don't want to render unto the government what belongs to the government.

When we had Republicans in the governor's mansion in California, our state borrowed and borrowed and spent like hogs at a trough as if the time to repay the debt would never come. When Jerry Brown, a Democrat finally took office as governor, he submitted to the voter a proposition to raise taxes especially on the rich but actually on everyone. Voters voted yes, and we raised our own taxes. California has been repaying its debt and flourishing ever since.

It is Republican propaganda that people don't want to pay taxes. It depends on what the taxes are used for.

[kansasobama]

50. Yes, agree

Yep. I meant the selfish rich GOP variety

[socialist_n_TN]

60. Yep. I always say that most people want a visible benefit......

for the taxes we pay. Nowdays we don't see that benefit. I'd love to be able to direct where my tax dollars go. NONE would go to the DoD.

[Enthusiast]

72. PLUS ONE!

[Enthusiast]

71. Republican fiscal policies? Republican fiscal policies are a well maintained mirage.

From the Reagan and Bush II administrations we can conclude that actual Republican fiscal policy consists of massive borrowing and spending.

Republicans claim to be concerned with fiscally responsible governance but they practice nothing of the kind.

[aggiesal]

12. Unfortunately, only the RW opinions are heard because ...

the media is owned by RW corporations.

How many times have we heard the RW echo chamber blaring
that this is a RW christian country?

[AlbertCat]

14. Unfortunately, only the RW opinions are heard because ...

the media is owned by RW corporations.




BINGO!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

29. That's pretty much it

For years we've heard the story that the media is liberal and biased to the left. If you look closely, however, you will see it isn't true. Take the three major Sunday political talk shows, This Week on ABC, Face The Nation on CBS, and Meet The Press on NBC. George Stphapoulos, David Gregory, and Bob Schieffer give us the impression from afar that they are liberal but merely play the role of liberals on the air. Actually they are luke warm conservatives, with Schieffer a registered Republican and former golfing buddy of George Bush, to Stephanopoulus who holds several conservative ideas including his opposition to gun control (and is partnered with George Will), to David Gregory ... who is barely a talking lump of flesh. And of course we only need to look at the ass parade of right wing guests each week: Eric Kantor, John McCain, Lindsey Graham who practically live on those shows.

[PowerToThePeople]

16. Do slaves believe in slavery?

[Foxman58]

17. First question to be asked:

Which "reputable American polling organizations"?

[WaitWut]

20. The polls are cited in the Salon Article.

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/28/gops_30_year_spin_job_is_over_why_we_are_not_a_center_right_nation/

Edit:
Oops, that came off a little rude. I agree with you btw. There is too much information floating around that is unsubstantiated. In fact, I heard that 73% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Waitwut (The other one.)

[DocMac]

22. I'm wondering how you would

answer the questions in that poll? You seem disappointed.

[BillZBubb]

27. Fox man? hmmmm....

I think your question supports that.

[geretogo]

25. You know the saying , " if you keep telling a lie long enough etc. " .

[blackspade]

26. Well done fellow Americans.

This will only be ignored by politicians.

[valerief]

28. Reality has nothing to do what the media tells us is true. nt

[Andy823]

30. What we need is

An honest media that doesn't always slant things for the right, and against the left. As long as the median is bought and paid for by right wing corporations the news will always be slanted for the right.

We also need the party to get the message out about what these polls say. Send out flyers that show what the country really wants, and point out that all the republicans in congress who constantly vote "against" then things the country wants.

We also need to get issues on the ballot that will promote voter turnout, like legalizing marijuana, raising the minimum wage, workers rights, women's rights, voting laws to protect voters from the GOP trying to eliminate minorities voting, etc.

And most of all we need to get voter out to vote! We need to fight back on the BS we hear that "both parties are the same", because they damned well are not the same. The meme that they are the same comes from those who have an agenda that is not to unite the democratic party, but to divide it. You can disagree all you want about what needs to be done, but if we ever get a republican in the
WH again, and republicans in control of both the Senate and the House, we will see just how bad things will get, but by then it will be to damned late! Any time someone tries to tell you the two parties are the same, you should tell them to ask those who live in states that the republicans gained control of back in 2010, like Wisconsin, Florida, Main, and all the rest of them. See if they think the two parties are the "same"!

[JDPriestly]

31. K&R,

I bet the results would be equally progressive on issues like trade and outsourcing. Funny that those issues were not included in this review of polling. Maybe Salon is more conservative than the American people? I really don't know.

Why were reactions to the TPP, NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. not polled? Oh, and the NSA surveillance?

[Enthusiast]

73. +1 again.

The American people are dead set against additional trade deals. By now we know they hurt us every damn time.

[GoCubsGo]

34. 41% think the current distribution of wealth is A-okay???

I can understand the top few percent believing that, but the rest have got to be mighty deluded into thinking they're actually going to be beneficiaries of the current system one of these days. How sad, and how selfish.

[brett_jv]

41. What's far more troubling to me is how few support a woman's right to choose ... even less (n/t)

[GoCubsGo]

46. Yeah, but I at least have a better idea of from where that comes.

The anti-choice business is all religion-related. It's pretty disgusting to see those numbers, that I'll definitely agree. Pretty much the same number as the wealth-distribution thing, too, interestingly. Not that it necessarily means anything.

[socialist_n_TN]

61. I've read several polls that say that most people believe that ......

income inequality is much less than it actually IS. So that 41% probably doesn't even know the true nature of the inequality that's actually in place.

[GoCubsGo]

78. That makes more sense than anything.

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

[Enthusiast]

35. Those that would say Bernie Sanders is a radical leftist are lying.

They are intentionally misleading you.

They also want you to believe that HRC and President Obama are leftists, even socialists.

These poll results demonstrate where the American people stand on the issues. It is the issues and resulting policies that are the concern of the people. If a politician mirrors the American people on these issues that politician is a centrist, not a leftie.

There are other issues I would include. Like cutting military spending, enacting a single payer heath care system and ending the quest for new and improved trade deals.

Stop the fucking trade deal bullshit. A majority of Americans do not want it. Is this a democracy or not? (Now some right wing sock puppet will pop up to remind me that this is a Republic.)

[blkmusclmachine]

39. Somebody tell the White House! STAT!

[Maedhros]

43. I saw Michael Moore speak over ten years ago.

The point of his presentation was that America is not the Old White Conservative Male Nation that politicians imagine it to be.

The average American is female, of color, liberal and becoming younger over time as the Baby Boom fades.

Moore said "America is Oprah Winfrey" and that explains why the GOP is going crazy. Fast forward to today and his point has been emphatically underlined. The Old White Guys that are used to running everything can see the writing on the wall. THEIR TIME HAS COME AND GONE, and it scares the shit out of them. What we're seeing now with the Tea Party, Bundy's idiocy in Nevada and the nonsense on the Mexican border represent the death throes of conservatism.

[npk]

44. Lots of Conservative right wingers probably do want better pay, clean air, social security, etc...

It's just that they are not willing to trade their SOCIAL ISSUES like (gay marriage, abortion, segregation, and all) to accomplish that. Hatred amongst many right-wingers is so strong that they will gladly sacrifice what they know to be good for them or even healthy for them and their children, so that they can further their social agenda. Very sad. And of course the 1% of the politically powerful are all too happy to feed their hatred as long as the money keeps rolling in.

[n2doc]

45. Doesn't matter. They vote the other way

Anyone who thinks that most people really support these things and vote on them is delusional. The facts are, people vote for 1, the person they recognize, 2, the party affiliation and associated propaganda about said party, 3, Their own particular passion, which tend to be concentrated most in anti-women's rights/Abortion and Guns.

People may say they support these things. If they really did we would not have more than a handful of repubs in office, regardless of gerrymandering. Enough don't care enough to vote that way, and enough vote the other way because of guns, gays and fetuses.

[Beowulf42]

51. What's missing

What is missing in this graphic presentation is the number against these ideas. So many of them have non-responders in the 10 to 20 percent range. I honestly believe that statistically they should be left out. That would make some of the "close ones" look like 54% to 30 %, and thus show a much wider gap between the Yeas and Nays.

[grahamhgreen]

53. Don't forget war: We're sick of it!!!! & it's destroying our own country....

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

[PDJane]

54. It is my hypothesis that, between the far right wing propaganda and the religiosity that is rampant,

The people, who are centre left, have been taught that the right is right. They have been brainwashed into Ayn Rand selfishness, and vote against their own interests. The right has people like Luntz to tell them how to use language to lie; he's been doing a fine job of it for Israel, too. Make no mistake, it works. It has worked for the GOP, and for Israel, and for corporations and for think tanks...but it's self-defeating.

Eventually, actions speak so much louder than words, that they will have to try to control what gets out, when. Then, freedom of speech and the right to protest become the enemy, and things deteriorate, in spite of the control of the message.

I think that Canada skipped a few steps; we've gone straight to intimidating the messenger. Harper is now auditing NGO's; he has told one charity that the assumption of poverty is not the same as poverty. We'll see how this goes, and how fast people manage to wise up.

[niyad]

57. wow----only 54% believe in a woman's right to bodily autonomy. guess we should be grateful

for that pitiful number, given the unrelenting battle against it.

[davidpdx]

63. Yeah that jumped out at me as troubling

I would think it would be higher than that, maybe closer to 60%.

[niyad]

80. last time I heard a non-wingnut poll on women's reproductive choice, it was more like 70%.

still a depressing number.

[ozone_man]

58. No questions about the military budget?

You'd think that when half of our budget goes to military spending, there would be a question there, e.g., how can we ever expect to have education, infrastructure, health care, etc., when our military budget takes half of our budget? We are a center right nation because we never address this issue, and the main stream media will not let us, and we enable them. We can never be anything to the left of a center-right nation, when we kill 500,000 Iraqis over a war for oil. I'm not sure what that makes us other than mass murderers.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

66. We never WERE....

Tonight we went to Arizona Charley's for the buffet and to play a little video poker.

A drunken redneck woman swilling Corona started screaming on and on about how we all had to impeach Obama. Just then the cocktail waitress went by and I said, "No more Kool-Aid for her."

Everyone in earshot started laughing, including the waitress.

[Enthusiast]

74. Awesome story!

[ck4829]

76. That's just their way of saying that the center and anyone left of it would be a Communist Socialist

[tanyev]

77. C'mon now, you know one in three Americans agree with Palin's call for Obama's impeachment.

That's proof right there of how conservative America is!

[Laelth]

79. k&r for the truth. n/t

-Laelth