Mo Rocca: The challenges facing atheists in the U.S.

[ErikJ]

CBS Sunday Morning; The challenges facing atheists in the U.S.
Apr 19, 2015
Fifty-three percent of Americans say they'd be less likely to support an atheist for president, and almost half say they'd be unhappy if a family member married an atheist. Mo Rocca reports on the many consequences that those who come out as non-believers suffer in a nation founded on religious tolerance.

[Moostache]

1. The default position is NOT belief...or "Faith"....it is lack of belief.

The word atheist has been successfully co-opted by religious leaders with agendas and positions of power and influence. They recognize that what they are using to generate a living is threatened by a moral awakening of humanity.

I don't care what religion someone professes, they are all equally unlikely to be "true" in any meaningful sense. The sobering fact to all religious people should be that no matter what they say is "true", 80% of the rest of humanity says..."uh, no, you totally have X, Y and Z wrong and are going to burn for it".

I do not feel the need to justify why I lack any beliefs. I do not justify a lack of belief in fairies, goblins, ghosts, demons, angels, Pegasus, Apollo, Jupiter, Zeus, Poseidon, Athena, Ra, etc, etc, etc. I do not justify a lack of belief in Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Krishna, Shiva, the Buddha (technically not a "god", I know). I do not justify a lack of belief that a human could survive a free-fall dive off of a sky-scraper.

I do not claim to be anything that my actions are not...unlike many, many so-called "Christians".

Morals come from upbringing. Period, full stop.
If you are raised fundamentalist Muslim, then be-headings of thieves is not "cruel and unusual", its "justice".
If you are raised fundamentalist Christian, then prejudice and hatred of homosexuals is not bigotry, it is "god's will".
If you are raised fundamentalist Jew, then you do not see territorial impositions on Palestinian land as theft, you see promises kept.

My children have been raised without any influence from a church or organized religion at all. They know it is wrong to steal, it is wrong to kill, it is wrong to hurt or silently watch another be hurt. They know that all people - regardless of skin, age, sex, private predilections - are entitled to be judged solely on their character and interactions with other people and in no way by the myths of the past. They know that it is unacceptable to prey on the weak or allow others to pick on their family members without defending those in need.

I am always struck by an event that happened to me while travelling through rural Illinois on the way to Chicago. I had all 5 of my children with me and my wife was unable to travel with us due to work commitments. As we were driving, I stopped for gas and food and allowed the kid's to talk me into McDonald's. As we were there, the usual delays and chaos ensued around us, but my kids went to sit at a table and wait for the food. They were not angels, but they were respectful of the other diners and by and large well-behaved.

Just before we were leaving, a gentleman in his late-60's or early 70's approached me and said, "You should be commended. Those are some of the best behaved children I have ever seen and they should make you proud. The Lord is upon them." I just smiled, shook his hand and said, "Thank you." I did not need to say anything else because the satisfaction is mine and always will be and that is this:

It does not require any kind of "god", "gods" or "religion" to raise children with consciences, with morals and with values and respect. It takes loving parents and grandparents and hard work. No holy book or priest or minister is the gatekeeper either. I know this from personal experience and that is good enough for me.

[ErikJ]

2. Agreed. Japan is 90% "atheistic" and has tiny fraction the crime that US does.

Predominantly Atheist Countries Have Lowest Crime Rate According To Study
http://www.nairaland.com/121066/predominantly-atheist-countries-lowest-crime
Several weeks ago, a ground-breaking study on religious belief and social well-being was published in the Journal of Religion & Society. Comparing 18 prosperous democracies from the U.S. to New Zealand, author Gregory S Paul quietly demolished the myth that faith strengthens society.

Drawing on a wide range of studies to cross-match faith – measured by belief in God and acceptance of evolution – with homicide and sexual behavior, Paul found that secular societies have lower rates of violence and teenage pregnancy than societies where many people profess belief in God.

Top of the class, in both atheism and good behavior, come the Japanese. Over eighty percent accept evolution and fewer than ten percent are certain that God exists. Despite its size – over a hundred million people – Japan is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

(Teenage pregnancy has less tragic consequences than violence but it is usually unwanted, and it is frequently associated with deprivation among both mothers and children. In general, it is a Bad Thing.)

Next in line are the Norwegians, British, Germans and Dutch. At least sixty percent accept evolution as a fact and fewer than one in three are convinced that there is a deity. There is little teenage pregnancy , although the Brits, with over 40 pregnancies per 1,000 girls a year, do twice as badly as the others. Homicide rates are also low -- around 1-2 victims per 100,000 people a year.

At the other end of the scale comes America. Over 50 percent of Americans believe in God, and only 40 percent accept some form of evolution (many believe it had a helping hand from the Deity). The U.S. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan.

All this information points to a strong correlation between faith and antisocial behavior -- a correlation so strong that there is good reason to suppose that religious belief does more harm than good.

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[Moostache]

6. I like the "acceptance" of evolution instead of "believe in"...

That is a better way to couch the discussion.

As the subsequent poster replied, the concept of "belief" (holding as "true" that which has no objective proof or reason for acceptance beyond desire to have it be so) is at the root of many if not all problems associated with fundamentalist zealotry.

I accept the theory of evolution for many reasons - scientific consensus, experimental evidence and personal experience with bacteria and the development of resistance and emergence of mutated strains, etc. - but I would not characterize it as "belief" in evolution.

Thank you for the link. That was exactly the studies that I had in mind.

[2naSalit]

3. Interesting.

I agree that there is no need to allow the traditional gatekeeper analogy.

Had a very interesting conversation with a couple dear friends last week about this. I have known both men for at least a decade and respect both for how they strive to keep meaning and intention in perspective. One is a little older than I, the other several years younger. The younger one is on a quest, shall we say, to find some answers to the great unknown to guide him through the rest of his existence here while the other is trying to help guide him to an understanding. I don't really agree with the methods of either of them but I ended up speaking with a mantle of authority once they understood where I was coming from.

I was raised with a handful of differing religions tainting my relationships with various factions of my family (one of which actually meant that I was unacquainted with a whole trunk of my family tree because of their religion and that my grandparents had precipitated this upon the rest of us because they got married). I never felt comfortable with any of the four religions I was coerced into participating in so I was never baptized but I did go to church to keep from being punished for not participating, and besides, I got to sing in the choirs so I was willing to trade off my objections for the reward of being able to sing-which is a form of expression I can't live without.

Most of the family were some form of judeo-christian something or other but I found upon my grandfather's death that a big chunk of the family were jewish and he was the son of a rabbi who was from a long line of a special sect, apparently for whatever that is worth to them. His bride was, at the time from a lutheran group but that was only to hide the fact that they had previously been jews up until a jewish expultion from some part of Germanic Europe prior to the Hitler thing. I escaped all the religious stuff when I left home at 16.

As an adult I have come to the conclusion after much study of world religions, archaic up to modern, that I believe in nothing. Doesn't matter what or who or where. I reject the ideology of belief in itself. In my conversation with my friends I was asked if I believed that the bible was true and why or why not, by the younger. I began a rather lengthy response with this statement: "I believe in nothing. I do not subscribe to organized religion of any kind. I have an understanding of a lot of things, I know many things and I am willing to respectfully consider all other things but if I am required to believe in something, then that conversation with whomever is over." Up to that point, my friend was kind of defensive of christianity which he had recently started practicing but had some problems getting his head wrapped around. The elder friend kept emerging from the kitchen to thank me for my eloquence and ability to clearly describe what he understands as well though he is a practitioner of some Native American ceremonies, which BTW are not considered "religion" by the Native Americans I know.

We ended up conversing about this the entire afternoon with the younger friend having worked through some serious barriers that religion had put before him, it was good and I had a good feeling by the end of it. I did explain to him that we all have some kind of life energy that is what we are, however, energy does not disperse, it can only transform. By following a religion he allows someone else to interpret what that energy is and that unless he follows along with the interpreter's parade, he will suffer somehow. It is guiding through fear and guilt to fulfill someone else's agenda. And that is how I describe any organized religion: as a population control device reinforced through fear and guilt and has nothing to do with who and what you or anyone else is. But if they can make you believe they "know" what you don't, then they've got you by the ring in your nose.

And therein lies the problem in this and many a nation, by being tethered to something that they don't know or understand, people allow themselves to be controlled by someone else for the benefit of that someone else and not those being lead. And a residual problem with that is how all of our laws require that one believe in someone's guilt or innocence, not by the truth about whether or why they are guilty or innocent of breaking a law but what those judging believe. Until that problem is properly addressed, we can't convince very many of what's wrong with the zealots we are up against now in all the world.

[Moostache]

5. Fantastic response...thank you.

Very well said and I could not agree more on the fundamental problem of "be-LIE-f".

Spirituality, or reverence, or feeling connected to living matter itself are different ways of describing the same thing - a sense of belonging and commonality that is vital for many, curious for some and inconsequential to a few. There is no problem at all with this, there is also no problem with trying to wrap it in a story that helps people understand it in a palatable way. The problems start the second that these stories begin to conflict and men or women of influence recognize that the conflict offers opportunity or power.

Accepting anything as valid without objective evidence or valid explanation is detrimental to one's personal mental health.

Thanks again for the very thoughtful reply.

[blkmusclmachine]

4. "Religious tolerance." HA!

[IHateTheGOP]

7. So be it

Its not my fault if I'm smarter than most Americans.