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Related: About this forumPic Of The Moment: Poll Shocker: Hillary Tied With Rand Paul...
Uh-oh: Bluegrass Poll shows Rand Paul and Hillary Clinton tied ... in Kentucky!
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SoapBox
(18,791 posts)He is nuts!
OverBurn
(945 posts)Cha
(296,857 posts)Kevin from WI
(184 posts)Now available in several nasty flavors. Republinuts, guaranteed to destroy the economy, education, and your health. Buy your Republinuts today. Special discount for billionaires and corporations.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)How about a poll with all potential candidates?
This is pretty damned meaningless as we are over six months from the first caucus. This is the worst possible push-poll.
brooklynite
(94,360 posts)I get it that you'd like a poll with Sanders included. Since nobody thinks Sanders would be competitive in a head-to-head in Kentucky, you'd then complain about the accuracy of the poll, so what would be the point?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)1) One definition of a push poll is one where you try to manipulate the results by either narrowing the question or shaking it up in a way that creates a false or narrow choice.
2) I would like to see a poll including all of the candidates that have announced. Sanders is trending between 11 and 17% among democrats and we deserve to see how he is favored.
3) I would also prefer polling on candidates within their respective parties as that is currently more meaningful.
4) "no one believes sanders would be competitive" is an unprovable statement based on nothing more than speculation and hot air.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Just be honest and say "Since no Hillary supporter thinks Sanders would be competitive"
brooklynite
(94,360 posts)Kentucky is largely Republican and it's Democrats are far more conservative than those in Vermont. Hillary Clinton is LIKELY (in their view) to be the Democratic nominee and Rand Paul is the hometown favorite. That's the poll they commissioned. They also didn't pair Clinton against any of the other Republican prospects.
But please, give me a cogent argument as to how Bernie Sanders is competitive in a State that elected McConnell and Paul, and went for Romney 60-48.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)Because a bevy of blue dog style candidates have gradually gone down in flames. Candidates that have stuck to their progressive guns have stayed in office. I seem to recall supporters of Blanche Lincoln in Arkansas making arguments like yours. How much absurd political capital was wasted on that congresswoman? All for naught. Had support been with held and her primary opponent been allowed to compete the race would have been far tighter.
Remember part of election strategy is turning out your base. Trying to attract conservative voters is a losers game tactically, strategically, and ethically.
brooklynite
(94,360 posts)All you can do is claim that because other (non-progressive) candidates lost, obviously a progressive candidate can win. Without evidence. Meanwhile, I can point to Governor Beshear, a non-progressive Democrat who was elected twice.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)What is the membership of the blue dog subcaucus?
What was it in 2000? 2008? 2010? 2012? What is it today?
These are the "electable" democrats choosen by the Rahm Emmanuel's of the party. These are the kinds of people that are thrust out again and again as "the only politicians that can win in a red state." But the funny thing is that they lose. They lose badly over time. And even when they win, they sell out to the banks and the pharmaceutical lobbies almost immediately.
And if you don't believe me, what about the words of the flawed but accurate Harry Truman:
"Given the choice between a republican and a democrat who acts like a republican, the voter will choose a republican every time."
This is what comes from supporting such candidates and this is what I think of every time I hear the words of being "practical" or "pragmatic" from a blue dog, a DLC superstar, or a third way democrat.
brooklynite
(94,360 posts)But if we must talk nationally, let's talk about Jeanne Shaheen in New Hampshire, Joe Donnelly in Indiana and Claire McCaskill in Missouri. Who all 'won'. Convince us that Bernie Sanders will be competitive in any of those States.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)Convince me that a poll taken before we are even within spitting distance of the Iowa primary has any relevance or bearing. This story and this poll are absurd. I have no intention on choosing my candidate based on what Kentucky finds acceptable. Keep pitching to the right though if you must.
President Obama managed to win in the generals without Kentucky in 2008.
brooklynite
(94,360 posts)...so those polls showing Sanders gaining some strength are equally absurd? Good to know.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)And you know it.
Why are you constantly bashing Sanders?
Don't you want to see someone get in the White House who works for WE THE PEOPLE, and not them, the corporations, as proven by the donations both Sanders and Clinton have gotten in the past? Go look them up on opensecrets.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I don't need to see Lee Mercer Jr.'s polling numbers against Rand Paul.
staggerleem
(469 posts)... but he's FROM Texas - that's where he was born & raised.
Which raises an interesting Hillary - where is she "from"? Chicago? Arkansas? New York?
I think the REAL answer, for both of them, really, is DC. They are both creatures of Washington, with all of its dysfunctionality.
kentuck
(111,052 posts)What does it mean?
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)but, it means that if Republicans have to fight to hold a deep red state like Kentucky against Hillary, they're in really bad shape in pink states, swing states, purple states and blue states.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)just means I'm rooting for Bernie. Not really surprised. If she doesn't take Texas then I'll be surprised
Beacool
(30,247 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)totodeinhere
(13,056 posts)I would not write off Bernie just yet.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)lives in its own world and outside mainstream politics. Furthermore, I doubt that even Hillary could win KY, but it's fun to see her tie with Paul in a state poll. The guy is a total jerk who spends a good portion of his time going after Hillary and has done so for many months before anyone was running for president. I'm enjoying his discomfort.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I have talked to people all over my State and they love Hillary. It is a longshot though.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)KY is even redder now, but we'll just have to wait and see.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)The last Democrat to truly run on an economic justice platform was LBJ, and he absolutely smashed Goldwater in Kentucky, (65 to 25) although he smashed him pretty much anywhere.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Paul will have to be the GOP nominee and I do not see that happening. So a 45% for Hillary in Kentucky against Walker, Cruz, Rubino, or Jeb in Kentucky could produce a win for Hillary.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)I would be pleasantly surprised if Hillary took KY.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Surprised to see Allison run away from Obama.
totodeinhere
(13,056 posts)And the thing is that the Democrats will benefit from the solid blue wall in the electoral college no matter who their nominee is. There are probably plenty of good reasons to support HRC but maintaining that she is the only one who can win isn't one of them.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)The party obviously needs to have a primary, but I am saying that Bernie would have zero chance of winning KY and that Hillary would probably come closer but not win it either. KY is quite conservative. It's just funny to see that Hillary is polling 45/45 with Paul. That's more a measure of Paul's unpopularity than Hillary's popularity in the state.
totodeinhere
(13,056 posts)"Bernie can't win" meme because I just don't believe it. And that's nothing against HRC.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I don't think any democratic nominee can take Kentucky, or Texas, for that matter (all though we are getting bluer)
Beacool
(30,247 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)the last few cycles, but I think it will still be a while. We have a bunch of dumbasses down here. At one time, though, we had Ann Richards as governor, and the mayor of Houston is openly gay. There is a little hope. How've you been, Bea?
Beacool
(30,247 posts)I hope that all is well with you too.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I'm doing well.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)There's Loonytune Rand, himself...and that squirrel on his head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)SunSeeker
(51,516 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)SpankMe
(2,957 posts)But ol' Mitch ended up winning his Senate seat by 15 points. Useless poll. And, too early to mean anything.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)He fears her.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)they all fear strong women
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)If the same bunch of folks who voted in Rand Paul (and supported Mitt Romney) think Hillary is cool, Democrats should be very, VERY concerned about her as their candidate.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Bill Clinton won Kentucky. Hillary will get much of the female vote here, regardless of the party choice.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Concerned about Hillary as a candidate, even the poll shows Hillary with 45% against a senator from Kentucky.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Funny this didn't get much attention at the time. Seems to be lots of bad news for Hillary in this one. Looks like when broken down by states instead of meaningless national polls Hillary isn't the Juggernaut many think she is.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Especially since some wre running very low in the polls, I will still stay with Hillary.
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)"people agree with him on individual issues".
When it's Sanders, getting Republican votes is a good thing. When it's Hillary, it's bad. At least here on DU!
Kevin from WI
(184 posts)Who believes Republicans will vote for either of them. They hate Hillary and Sanders is a "commie" in their book. I don't know we're this theme comes from. Most republican voters suck and will only vote for whomever their am radio tells them to. I got news for you... it is not Sanders or HRC.
Kevin from WI
(184 posts)We shall see.
Cha
(296,857 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)spooky3
(34,407 posts)Are people finally seeing that Dems work in their best interests?
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)IronLionZion
(45,380 posts)WAAAAAYYY better! Keep the government out of the exchanges! Keep government out of medicaid!
totodeinhere
(13,056 posts)I suspect that Bernie Sanders would also carry Kentucky.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Hillary is loved here as was Bill when he won Kentucky.
totodeinhere
(13,056 posts)I'm just saying that Bernie would also take Kentucky. And even if he doesn't, there is a solid blue wall in the electoral college that will ensure that any major Democratic candidate will win against whatever clown the Repubs put out there.
ananda
(28,836 posts)I like this poll.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)And that's fun to see.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)After the results from women were tossed out.
You know,...because they're too busy with the kids and housework to go vote anyway so why count them?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)I'll bet she scores at least 60 IQ points over poodle head. His intellect has been stunted by his out moded belief system. He's plum squirrely.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)The only difference is the calories.
Initech
(100,041 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Gamecock Lefty
(700 posts)If Hillary is doing well in some polls, well, dont we all know its way too early, its a push-pull poll, they didnt ask the right questions, its all name recognition and things can change at the drop of a dime.
But if (insert Warren, Sanders) are doing well in the polls, its because the people are responding to their message.
See the difference?
Go get em, Hillary!!
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)C Moon
(12,209 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)And we don't even know who either party's candidates are.
AFAIC, polls this far out are meaningless.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)I would rather Sanders win in every state BUT Kentucky ...
But I will take Hillary embarrassing Rand Paul in his own state for all that it's worth ...
I'm with the Sanders/Warren wing of the Democratic Party, but Hillary gets my vote if she is the nominee, plain and simple ...
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)Just further proves the opposition to Obama here in Appalachia was nothing but racist.
Coal had nothing to do with. Obama lost the WV primary by 50 points before he uttered a single word on the subject.
Kevin from WI
(184 posts)Part poodle, part penis, and full of bad ideas.
Kevin from WI
(184 posts)Now 90% more stupid, and even more resistant to common sense. Order today and impress all your tea party friends. Racist news letter from his father not included. Prices and participation may very. Offer not valid when purchasing other republicans not endorsed by tea party. Subject to substitution with Scott Walker, or Ted Cruz. Not sold where smart people live.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)Bernie and Rand,,,,,,,, maybe you true believer-dreamers that Bernie could become Prez would be brought back to reality.
Kevin from WI
(184 posts)And you think the Sander's crowd is a bunch of true believer-dreamers. LOL
Kevin from WI
(184 posts)I hope it goes blue, but I am not holding my breath.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)but feel free to infer my post however you wish since you doing so already......
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)if she is the nominee. We've heard this crap time and time again. How many times do we have to go through the delusions of grandeur on DU with threads about how she will sweep red states of she is the nominee? This is ONE poll almost a year and a half from the election.
If anyone wants to lay down a bet now that she'll take Kentucky if she is the nominee, let me know by the end of the weekend.