"I am sick and tired of the black community making Bernie Sanders jump through hoops"

[votesparks]

From The Benjamin Dixon Show.

[1StrongBlackMan]

1. Posted to for later viewing. eom.

[msongs]

2. Coates has books to sell nt

[zentrum]

15. I know that addressing

…income inequality is not at all the same as addressing reparations. But if we get a fairer economic system, not only will the 99 as a whole be better off, but it can be a first step in also putting reparations on the table. Never going to get reparations if the oligarchy stays in place.

I'm surprised at Coates for attacking the one candidate who will actually push for a higher minimum wage, infrastructure jobs, access to free higher education and health care for all. Does he hear Hillary talking about reparations? Ever? No. But Bernie's platform will help AA's much more than Hillary's will. In fact she and her husband with welfare reform put the Black family into more jeopardy.

[olddots]

3. exellent

thanks for posting that .

[sulphurdunn]

4. Clinton is the Democratic Party

establishment candidate because she will not rock the status quo boat. Sanders threatens to capsize it.

[asuhornets]

5. Hillary Clinton

has 80% of the black vote-fact. Bernie can jump if he wants but it will not do him any good. Go Hillary.

[YOHABLO]

12. Well then 80% of the black community that supports her is terribly misinfomed.

Bernie has been there for African Americans all his life and supported MLK and the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s. Where was Hillary? Is there some underlying prejudice that we're not getting?

[OilemFirchen]

14. Always a winning argument.

"You don't support me because you're stupid."

What could go wrong?

[Chakab]

17. I'm black, and I concur with the poster that you responded to.

The nonsense about Clinton being the "first black president" is an offensive crock of shit. It was shameless pandering that they got away with in the 90s because there was no online media to call them on the race-baiting that they did to appeal to other groups while claiming affinity with the black community.

I, for one, find this hyper-criticism of Sanders on issues of race to laughable when you consider the Clinton's stance on issues that have had dire effects on the black community, like free trade, mandatory minimum sentencing, empowerment of law enforcement to engage in overaggressive policing and the deregulation of the media, which give the ability to some nasty actors to demonize minority groups non-stop and set race relations far behind where they should be at present.

The only reason that Hillary has so much so support with the black community is down to name recognition and the fact that Sanders' message has been suppressed by an unfair amount of coverage and ridiculous attacks on his character.

Remember that the Hillary had the overwhelming support of black voters in the '08 primary before Obama won Iowa, and the Clintons started showing their asses.

..and don't think that all of us have forgotten about how she tried to play "hard-working" white people and Latinos against blacks when the chips were down the last time that she ran for president.

[Number23]

19. You might think calling black people who don't support Sanders "stupid" is the way to go

but PLEASE believe me when I tell you that is a losing strategy and if you don't know that already you will learn it the second you spout that off at a black person.

And you may think that black people should only focus on the tone deaf and stupid shit that Clinton said during her 2008 campaign but most black folks are capable of focusing on that AND the tone deaf and stupid stuff that other candidates are doing or are not doing TODAY. The idea that only the racist/tone deaf stupidity of one candidate is the only thing that matters is the only thing that's actually stupid around here.

[Chakab]

21. The poster wrote "misinformed" not "stupid." If you can't make an argument without addressing what

was actually written, then don't bother responding.

The issue is her "tone deafness." It's the sum total of the policies that the Clinton's have supported in their political careers and the affect that it's had on the black community.


They shit on black people to get elected in the early 90s, they shit on black people in terms of legislation when Bubba was in the White House and they shit on black people when Hillary was losing to Obama in '08.

How any person could come to the conclusion that they're the best option for black America is beyond me. They only thing that the Clinton's have for black America is empty rhetoric and pandering.

[Number23]

22. The poster to whom you responded wrote "stupid" in clear English

But I love how you apparently feel that calling millions of black people "misinformed" isn't pretty much the same thing.

[Chakab]

23. ...and I clearly stated that I agreed with the characterization of the person to which the poster

responded.

[Number23]

24. And I clearly stated that I love how you are acting as though "stupid" and "misinformed" don't

have the same meaning here.

[Chakab]

25. I'm clearly stating that you're engaging in semantic games and histrionics regarding word choices

while completely ignoring the reality that the Clinton's record on black America is terrible. Black people are no more than a stepping stone for them to get into power and service their corporate masters.

[Number23]

27. Oh the "corporate masters" stuff and acusing others of "hystrionics" huh? You'll fit in great here

If you want to hate the Clintons and it's clear that you do, that's your business. I don't think that anyone cares.

But saying that black folks that support them are stupid, "misinformed" or anything else is an entirely different thing altogether and is what I took issue with. Comments like that say far more about you than it does anyone else.

[OilemFirchen]

34. It occurs to me that there may be an alternate explanation.

Since our interlocutor is so insistent about the specific meaning of "misinformed", I'm willing to split that wild hair. If the black community is misinformed, then one of the following is true:

a) They are unable to understand the information because they're stupid.
b) Those imparting the information are unable to make themselves understood because they're stupid.

Maybe that helps. Maybe the Sanders team and his supporters are stupid. Maybe that's what was meant.

[Number23]

36. People can hate the Clintons as much as they want. I GENUINELY couldn't give the first damn

But I have serious issues with anyone stating that black folks only support the Clintons because we are "misinformed" or worse. I've even seen a poster here say that black people can be "enlightened" enough to vote for Sanders as if supporting him were some litmus test for the intelligence of people with melanin. It's a kind of desperate and transparent arrogance that won't endear Sanders or the people saying this crap to anybody.

Black folks lived through Bill's term and know full well how things were under Bill Clinton. We don't need to have the history of his term "explained" to us. And like I said to that other person, the idea that we are only supposed to focus on the racist/stupid/tone deaf things that Hillary has said or done and I guess completely ignore the racist/stupid/tone deaf shit that other candidates have done is about as dishonest and transparent as it comes. And it's clear that those doing so couldn't care less about the issues affecting the black community and just see us as a means to an end.

[Number23]

26. Since you have edited 4 new paragraphs into this post I'll respond again

Under the Clintons, more black folks graduated from college and achieved a slice of the American dream than ever before. For all of their many faults and flaws, that is something that no one can take from them.

And Hillary's tone deafness is an issue but if you think that black folks are only going to focus on her tone deafness and say absolutely nothing about the avalanche of tone deafness that's coming from other candidates, I think you got that all wrong.

[OilemFirchen]

20. Uh huh.

Pretty remarkable that we're still litigating this.

Here's what the poster wrote:

80% of the black community that supports her is terribly misinfomed

This is a clear implication that the black community is unable to learn, rather than that they have made their own decisions.

It's a curious strategy for winning supporters, but carry on.

[JonLeibowitz]

29. It is an implication of nothing of the kind. N/t

[emulatorloo]

28. Toni Morrison called Bill Clinton "the first black president"

As to the "black people are misinformed about Bernie" meme, I'm afraid the sell by date of that one has long passed. Bernie's reaching out to AA voters and AA voters know him by now.

[Luminous Animal]

31. She has also said her remark was misunderstood. I'd get you a link but I'm on my phone.

[emulatorloo]

32. I have no doubt she's said it was misunderstood. Thanks! No worries on the link

Poster seemed to think that the phrase originated with the Clinton's themselves.

Will def search out Morrison's comments. Thank you again for the offer, on iPad so easier for me to do than you,

Link:


It Was No Compliment to Call Bill Clinton 'The First Black President'
Ta-Nehisi Coates
11:07 AM / August 27, 2015


http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/08/toni-morrison-wasnt-giving-bill-clinton-a-compliment/402517/

[Spitfire of ATJ]

35. That's an easy statistic for white people to toss out there before other white people...

But none of my black friends like her.

[Maedhros]

6. I don't begrudge Coates for making his points.

As citizens, it's our job to make our politicians jump through hoops, to test their policy positions, to make them earn our votes.

Bernie is doing just that - earning votes, from voters in nearly every demographic.

[cui bono]

7. Thank you for posting this.

Benjamin articulates a lot of the same feeling I get when on DU. It's been so one-sided on here with the criticism.

Interesting too that he criticized John Lewis as being part of the "black elite" that tried to protect Hillary from BLM. Why does one need to be protected from BLM anyway?

.

[appalachiablue]

8. Thanks. Activist/Rapper KILLER MIKE DEFENDS BERNIE, Debates T. Coates on Reparations Attack, Esquire

Last edited Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:18 PM - Edit history (2)

'KILLER MIKE DEFENDS BERNIE SANDERS, ENTERS PUBLIC DEBATE WITH TA-NEHISI COATES", Esquire, Jan. 20, 2016. http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a41346/killer-mike-ta-nehisi-coates-bernie-sanders/

On Tuesday, celebrated writer Ta-Nehisi Coates published an article in The Atlantic in which he decried Bernie Sanders for being against "reparations for slavery." In 2014, Coates published a landmark cover story in The Atlantic, "The Case for Reparations." In this week's piece Coates argued that: Unfortunately, Sanders's radicalism has failed in the ancient fight against white supremacy. What he proposes in lieu of reparations—job creation, investment in cities, and free higher education—is well within the Overton window, and his platform on race echoes Democratic orthodoxy.
---
>Today, rapper and political activist KILLER MIKE (Michael Render)—who has endorsed Sanders in one-on-one interviews, and appearances on Colbert—fired back at Coates, defending Sanders' policy.

Killer Mike, comments via Twitter, Jan. 20, 2016:

"I love the writings of @tanehisicoates. I am very curious why every one thinks his critique of Sanders of some kind of death nail."
"Our current POTUS has NOT been asked about Reparations and he is black. lol."
"If I as a working class African American read and hear Sanders platform. Better pay, end of drug war, fixing Youth unemployment and more. "
"Candidate that I think would be most sensitive to the very accomplishable goal, and the other things that can/will help black people is SANDERS."

*THE FACT THAT BLACKS EVEN HAVE TO JUSTIFY THE CASE FOR REPARATIONS IS SHAMEFUL.
*THE FACT THAT ONLY ONE CANDIDATE IS BEING CALLED TO TASK IS - BULLSHIT. ESPECIALLY WHEN THAT CANDIDATE IS THE ONLY ONE WITH POLICY PROPOSAL THAT DIRECTLY EFFECTS THE BLACK COMMUNITY IF ELECTED".

(More at Link above).



Mike & Bernie met in Atlanta after a huge campaign rally to discuss politics and current issues which are interests of Mike.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/bernie-sanders-reparations/424602/

[ciaobaby]

9. Loved This - thank you for posting - couldn't agree more!

[madfloridian]

10. Intelligent, well-done video. Thoughtful.

It concerns me that the reparations argument is not carried out to its possible unpleasant eventualities. One of those being lawsuits based on research done on genealogy forums.

Thanks for sharing.

[cannabis_flower]

11. The thing to do

Would be to follow the money and do class action lawsuits against individuals and corporations that directly benefited from slavery if the money is still there (might be gone after the depression in the 20s) and if it's possible.

[madfloridian]

18. Well, that's not what is going to happen.

Some are perusing wills from time of slavery and following the family line.

[ejbr]

13. As a black man,

I instinctively knew that this was a lame criticism of Bernie; he's been by our side for too long. But this video helped solidify this instinct. Thank you.

[Gothmog]

16. New Poll Shows ‘Surging’ Sanders Losing Ground With the Voter Group He Needs Most

And Sanders is still not polling well with African American or Latino voters. Complaining about having to appeal to this segment of the Democratic base is not helpful http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/poll-sanders-gains-stop-short-of-minorities.html#

Team Sanders is certainly focused on the problem, with a variety of campaign efforts focused on minority voters in the works. The talking points they are putting out there, however, are less than convincing, as I learned as a guest on the public radio show "To the Point" yesterday, when I heard a Sanders supporter argue that an Iowa win would greatly boost Bernie's African-American support just like it did for Obama in South Carolina in 2008. The idea that Sanders's potential to win the black vote in South Carolina is analogous to that of the first African-American president does not pass the laugh test. Still, any early-state win for Sanders, even in exceptionally honkified Iowa and New Hampshire, will likely create some sort of generalized bounce. The question is how high, and how loyal minority voters prove to be to Hillary Clinton, her husband, and her implicit ally Barack Obama. It's worth remembering that she defeated Barack Obama handily among Latinos in 2008, and that Bill Clinton enjoyed robust support in both communities.

Monmouth University has a new national poll out that casts some fascinating, if very preliminary, light on this subject. Compared to its poll in December, Monmouth shows Sanders making pretty big gains: Clinton was up 59-to-26 last month, and only 52-to-37 now. But among black and Latino voters, Clinton has actually expanded her lead from 61-to-18 to 71-to-21. In other words, a legitimate "Sanders surge" nationally has coincided with a deterioration of his standing with the voters he will most need for a breakthrough after the first two contests of the primary season.

Sanders is actually losing ground with African American voters. Sanders' efforts to appeal to this base are not working

[earthside]

30. I'm not getting this ... Hillary is for reparations?

And Sanders against?

[Truprogressive85]

33. The black elites political class have protected The Clinton far too long

If look back to the 2008 campaign she exploited "white fear" in order to excite white voters just so . Making Obama look foreign. Here we have a white women telling white voters don't vote for the black guy because he doesn't understand your problems.

As a black man how can I vote for someone who used the same tactics , that conservatives use to rile up their bigoted based.

[zentrum]

38. This really is

…what she did. I'll never forget it. Why is this given such a pass?

[Truprogressive85]

40. its a shame really

Protecting the order and status quo

[MisterP]

37. I'd specifically add that it's the *gatekeepers* as usual, who need to maintain access to power

rather than risk themselves by pushing for change to conditions or to the party's ssytem

[Uncle Joe]

39. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, votesparks.

[kenfrequed]

41. Benjamin Dixon makes a good point

Why aren't we holding all of the candidates to the same standard?

Why aren't we just looking at their policies and comparing them?

If one candidate is going to be challenged on reparations then all candidates should be.