Richard Engel bluntly assessed Trump catastrophic win from global perspective

[suffragette]

Last edited Wed Nov 16, 2016, 10:06 PM - Edit history (1)

On election night.

It was an all too rare moment of blunt truth. Yes, it's a difficult segment to watch, but all the more important now.

The NBC reporters had been yammering on, in the same tone and terms they generally use, in that chummy way they talk to each other and uttering terms and phrases they clearly have said so many times that they all just accept this news banter as the norm.

Then, they brought on their Chief Foreign Correspondent, Richard Engel, and in a scant few minutes, he brought up the shattering reality of what this means and just how disruptive it is. He noted how he has had reports of generals studying the Constitution to examine their obligations if Trump actually orders them to deport millions of people from the United States. He noted how people around the world have noticed the rise of right wing 'populists' around the world who are being elected to lead countries and the nationalist fervor that is sweeping so many countries now. And how the United Staes may become like a stalled ship in the ocean, looking only inward with nationalist infighting, and that other nations will dominate the world seas/stage.

There was a stunned silence followed by some slight bluster from most of them and even one attempt at understanding and conversation about repercussions. Their body language, especially Todd's speaks volumes.

Then they switched over to Andrea at the Clinton campaign's location, who at the time still had nothing to report on whether she was coming there (as was evident before they even switched to her). They had Engel on a bit longer though I can't find that part. If I recall, he called out media coverage that willingly provided Trump such a platform, noting that even 'bad' publicity still provided him with hours of publicity.

Shortly thereafter, Engels was gone, trundled off quickly after providing the most meaningful analysis of the night.

https://m.

[madaboutharry]

1. Richard Engle was just on MSNBC earlier today.

He remains horrified. He has new worry lines in his forhead.

[suffragette]

3. I don't have MSNBC. I'm glad they haven't quieted him down yet. It was refreshing

To hear his analysis, stark as it was.

[MissB]

2. I watched that.

And I talked about it for days afterward with coworkers. It was an excellent and sobering analysis.

[suffragette]

4. Yes, I've been doing the same. It was stunning. I wish I could find a clip with better audio

And one that includes the rest of his segment, brief as it was.

Did I miss or forget other key aspects?

[MissB]

7. Nope. Navel gazing and generals is what stood out for me.

And the implication that China and Russia wouldn't be standing still while we were navel gazing.

[gordianot]

5. The best part was the open mouths of others at the table.

They did not know how to respond and were generally speechless Engel must not get the network memos or ignores them.

[suffragette]

6. They were clearly in shock, espec. Chuck Todd and the two women. Todd even folded his

arms in classic defensive mode.

[Solly Mack]

8. K&R

[suffragette]

9. Thanks Solly.

[Solly Mack]

10. I'm still digesting it. It appeared to me that the others were trying desperately to mitigate

and downplay what Engel was saying to them.

[suffragette]

11. That was my take as well - emphasis on "desperately." I look forward to hearing your input

On this after digesting it.

I have enormous respect for your opinion.

I' ll keep trying to find the rest of it. It was very short, but he packed so much into each minute.

[Solly Mack]

16. Poor Tom, clinging to notions of democracy while the country burns.

He spoke of the people have spoken and this is our system, all part of the whole idea of democracy, with a peaceful transfer of power, and this is how our system of government works.

And none of that, none of it, can be applied to Trump.

This is really how an authoritarian government takes hold. Old, trusted names that can't wrap their minds around what happened, so they cling to the belief that it's all part of the system that we respect. That the system can correct any abuses.

And it's not just the old trusted names in the news, people in positions of influence - it's a good part of the public too.

We're America. We're the freedom people. It can't happen here - and even if it seems to be happening here - we can change it - because we're America. We're the freedom people.

That's not very comforting because it smacks of denial and whistling past the graveyard.

Nicole Wallace counting on the checks and balance of republicans. Of Congress, period. How well did they reign in Shrub?

Torture, extraordinary rendition, Patriot Act- loss of civil liberties, rounding up Muslim men. Look who Shrub put on the SCOTUS.

Seriously - what horror did Congress stop?

Shrub and his crimes were normalized. No one went to prison did they? Torture was downgraded to a policy position instead of the crime against humanity that it actually, and legally, is. That's normalization.


I'm not saying people can't change the course of what is happening - I'm saying they first have to admit that America has changed and not for the good. That our ideals of what America is supposed to mean doesn't match the reality of what America has allowed.

The good that has been accomplished in no way mitigates the bad.

Because when rights can be struck down with a pen, and on the whim of someone's prejudice, then no one is safe.

But I'm a cynic. So...



Still, gotta keep pushing that rock against all odds...because it's our duty. I kick myself all the time while cursing that rock.

[suffragette]

20. Spot on analysis. They could not "wrap their minds" around what they were seeing, so

Instead tried to reassure the audience and themselves that it all would somehow be ok.

Engel was instead examining the ramifications of what this means now, unsettling as that is. At one point, Holt even scoffs at him, exclaiming what he says is "speculation." Engel explains that it is actually based on discussions he has had.

At no point, does Holt label as speculation all the actual speculating, such as the example from Nicole Wallace you point out in your post.

They are doing all they can to normalize this, which is not that different from what they did through Trump's campaign. What Engel brought up about the Constitutional ramifications of people obeying or disobeying orders to deport millions of people - that should have been a major point of discussion.

And key to this, as you note, is that there were no penalties for the many abuses and crimes committed by Bush and his appointees. There was no justice because they wanted to maintain an optical illusion of peace.

I wish I could find that last bit of the segment when Engel basically called media out for enabling this by providing all the uncontested air time for Trump, noting that even bad publicity still adds up to publicity. It was shortly after that they soothed him out during a break.

We need more of this unvarnished reporting. But given the reactions of the key media people who had the most air time, I'm not optimistic about it.

[Solly Mack]

22. Engel looked at the rest as if they weren't hearing what he was saying.

People will say America survived Shrub but did we?

Sure, the country is still here, and yeah, people got to vote recently - but Shrub left an America where torture was turned into a policy difference and that good people could disagree about torture.

So, no, the America before Shrub did not survive - because before Shrub torture was seen for what it is - horrible, illegal, a crime against humanity.

But now?

I now there is more than just torture that was wrong about the Bush administration, but it is one of the most obvious.

How much more will America change under and after Trump?

America has a lot of ugly in its history, I am aware of that. But this time we seem to be heading ever downward instead of trying to do better.

I don't know.

[suffragette]

23. We live in a time in which "post-truth" is Oxford's word of the year

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/arts/post-truth-defeats-alt-right-as-oxfords-word-of-the-year.html?_r=1

The use of “post-truth” — defined as “relating to or denoting circumstances in which objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief” — increased by 2,000 percent over last year, according to analysis of the Oxford English Corpus, which collects roughly 150 million words of spoken and written English from various sources each month.

Katherine Connor Martin, the head of United States dictionaries at Oxford University Press, said it surged most sharply in June after the Brexit vote and Donald J. Trump’s securing the Republican nomination for president, making it an unusually global word.

“What we found especially interesting is that it encapsulated a trans-Atlantic phenomenon,” she said. “Often, when looking at words, you’ll find one that’s a really big deal in the U.K. but not in the U.S.”

Engels was speaking truth, but yes, he knew as he was speaking that the rest of the panel was in disbelief.

What you write about America having changed in ways we could not have imagined before Bush's regime is also true, but all too many wanted to brush past the reality of that, and not acknowledge the ways it has changed us.

Brexit wins on a platform of lies, yet there is no challenge based on it having been lies.

Trump did the same.

[longship]

12. First, the audio is horrible!

And just what is it with the hard rock music overlay during the last half which only makes the horrible audio even worse than it is.

This is a horrible video. Don't bother clicking through. I love Richard Engel, but this is rubbish.

[suffragette]

13. I wish I could find a link with better audio, but I think the content is important.

I searched quite a bit, but this was the only video I found that had most of that segment.

I don't hear any rock music, so I don't get what that part of your comment is about.

Again, as far as it being rubbish, I think what Engel says is important, that the flabbergasted response to that from the panel speaks volumes about the lack of analysis, especially with a global perspective, in U.S. news and the quick attempt at a shift back to newsy banter says even more.

[longship]

14. Not that one could hear what he said.

Let's start with that.

Than one can make an argument.

My best to you.

[suffragette]

15. It wasn't great audio, but I could hear it. I'm sorry that you could not.

Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 03:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Here's a shorter part of the segment, still not great audio, but maybe it will work better for you?

https://m.

My best to you as well

Edit to add: Here is a video with MUCH better audio. Unfortunately, it only has the start of the segment.

https://m.

[bdamomma]

17. thanks for posting this

I didn't see this at all. Thank god, for Richard to enlighten us all.

[suffragette]

18. It was important to hear his frank appraisal and to see the contrast of that with

the regular panel.

Also important to have the global as well as national view.

[world wide wally]

19. The last time I had the feeling that I could pinpoint that the world had just changed was 9/11

Changing it back will take forever if it could be done at all.
Thanks, deplorables.
Just don't ever ask me for sympathy or understanding.

[suffragette]

21. I share that feeling and I think Engel was expressing it as well.