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Source: 15 Trump Electors Form Coalition, Will NOT Vote for Trump (Original Post) rsacamano Dec 2016 OP
Hope it's true. femmocrat Dec 2016 #1
K&R!!! David Packman sounded quite convincing IMO. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2016 #2
Our last chance. This Dangerous man must never assume office impeachtrumpquick Dec 2016 #3
Am I sleeping? Is this a dream? Huge K&R!!! secondwind Dec 2016 #4
15 down, 21 to go ! nt eppur_se_muova Dec 2016 #5
He doesn't say they would switch their votes to HRC, just that they wouldn't cast their votes for Fla Dem Dec 2016 #6
Why do we keep letting Lucy set up the football for us? SlimJimmy Dec 2016 #7
As long as no candidate has 270 it goes to the House (for President) and Senate (for VP) Gore1FL Dec 2016 #8
Thanks, post corrected. Fla Dem Dec 2016 #9
Conscientious Electors Unite! bucolic_frolic Dec 2016 #10
even if the EC doesnt elect Trump, even if they vote 270 plus for Clinton Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #11
Sure. But maybe this is more symbolic. progressoid Dec 2016 #14
This summary seems to suggest that other outcomes are possible. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #16
Sign the petition! Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #12
Convincing the "Faithless" Pantagruel Dec 2016 #13
If they don't become "faithless," we will suffer the dire consequences of a "faithless" president. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #15
Good News colsohlibgal Dec 2016 #17
 

impeachtrumpquick

(359 posts)
3. Our last chance. This Dangerous man must never assume office
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 11:25 AM
Dec 2016

Because we are "One Cuban Missile Crisis Away" from Nuclear War.

Fla Dem

(23,542 posts)
6. He doesn't say they would switch their votes to HRC, just that they wouldn't cast their votes for
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 01:25 PM
Dec 2016

Trump.

Latest electoral counts I see has Clinton at 232. She needs 38 to get to 270
Trump at 306 needs to lose 38 to get to 268.

Don't know if the electors can vote a "No Vote". But unless they get 38 electors to change, Trump still wins. If it ends up in a tie 269-269, it goes to the House for a vote. Each state gets one vote, majority wins.

This will not happen, no matter how "really good" his sources are.

SlimJimmy

(3,180 posts)
7. Why do we keep letting Lucy set up the football for us?
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 01:30 PM
Dec 2016

The recount is a valid effort, but it won't change the results, this thread is another example of a valid effort that will fail. I'm moving on and getting ready to fight the new Trump administration. The rest of us should do the same.

Gore1FL

(21,084 posts)
8. As long as no candidate has 270 it goes to the House (for President) and Senate (for VP)
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 01:36 PM
Dec 2016

It's one vote per state though for the Presidential vote, so that could be somewhat interesting. Each Senator gets a vote on VP. Given the Senate breakdown, that would likely end up being Pence, either way.

 

Grey Lemercier

(1,429 posts)
11. even if the EC doesnt elect Trump, even if they vote 270 plus for Clinton
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 08:17 PM
Dec 2016

Congress will void the EC vote and make Trump POTUS and Pence VP. I am at a loss why people don't understand how the constitution works.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
16. This summary seems to suggest that other outcomes are possible.
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 10:17 PM
Dec 2016
What might be going through an Elector's Mind?

MAGA — Most Red State Electors intend to vote for Trump, no matter what. Make America Great Again.
The Hamilton Electors — Some Blue State Electors are trying to co-ordinate with sympatheic Red State electors to:
A) advance a moderate alternate candidate, requiring 270 such defectors from Trump. Not likely to organize in 18 days!
B) convince least 38 Red State electors to withhold their vote for Trump. Possible. This would throw the decision into the House of Representatives. See Contingent Election below.
There is no C for the Hamilton Electors, but the obvious possibility is for 38 Red State Electors (from any states) cast votes for Clinton instead of Trump. See below.
C) there is no C for the Hamilton Electors, but the obvious possibility is for 38 Red State Electors (from any states) cast votes for Clinton instead of Trump. See below.

Elect Trump, then impeach — Some Red State Electors might think they should just Vote Trump in, then allow Congress to impeach at some point in the future. Pence would then become President, and Ryan VP — not a bad outcome.

Elect Hillary, then impede — Some Red State Electors might think it would be more effective for (a few of) them to help vote Hillary Clinton into the Oval Office, and then the Republican-dominated congress can block whatever she tries to do, as they did with Obama. In their minds, a President Trump would leave them constantly torn between the normal expectation of loyalty to a president (of their party) and their hatred of him, the blowhard who hijacked their party's nomination, the faux Republican and faux conservative who threw the party into turmoil between the GOP Convention and the General Election. Lastly, with Clinton having 2.5+ million votes more than Trump, it would not seem fair for electors to vote for a Republican non-candidate as an alternate to Trump.

Blue should stay on Blue — Hopefully, all Blue State Electors will vote Blue. There are probably no Sanders loyalist electors among long time Blue electors. Any such Blue-to-Red defector would cancel out a Red-to-Blue defector. The Hamilton Elector scenario involves Blue electors voting Red... I would rather see them try to recruit some faithless Red electors, but their goal is to keep Trump out of office.

The Logical Conclusion — Each Elector, Red, Blue, or Purple, needs to conclude in his or her mind, that the rational thing to do for the Country is to cast their vote for Clinton, if they want to keep Trump out of the Whitehouse.

Lots more here.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
12. Sign the petition!
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 08:27 PM
Dec 2016
Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19

The Electoral College Was Meant to Stop Men Like Trump From Being President
The Bill of Rights is undemocratic. It limits the federal government’s power in profound ways, ways the people often dislike. Yet the people can do almost nothing about it. The Supreme Court is undemocratic, too. Yes, the people elect the president (kind of, more on that later), who appoints justices of the Supreme Court, subject to approval by the Senate, which these days is directly elected, too. But after that, the justices wield their extraordinary power for as long as they wish without any democratic accountability.

That’s the way the framers wanted it. And, oddly, it’s the way most contemporary Americans want it too. Americans say they revere democracy. Yet they also revere those rights—freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms—that the government’s least democratic institutions protect. Americans rarely contemplate these contradictions. If they did, they might be more open to preventing Donald Trump from becoming the next president, the kind of democratic catastrophe that the Constitution, and the Electoral College in particular, were in part designed to prevent.

Donald Trump was not elected on November 8. Under the Constitution, the real election will occur on December 19. That’s when the electors in each state cast their votes.

This ambiguity about how to choose the electors was the result of a compromise. James Madison and some other framers favored some manner of popular vote for president. Others passionately opposed it. Some of the framers wanted Congress to choose the president. Many white southerners supported the Electoral College because it counted their non-voting slaves as three-fifths of a person, and thus gave the South more influence than it would have enjoyed in a national vote. The founders compromised by leaving it up to state legislatures. State legislatures could hand over the selection of electors to the people as a whole. In that case, the people would have a voice in choosing their president. But—and here’s the crucial point—the people’s voice would still not be absolute. No matter how they were selected, the electors would retain the independence to make their own choice.

As Michael Signer explains, the framers were particularly afraid of the people choosing a demagogue. The electors, Hamilton believed, would prevent someone with “talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity” from becoming president. And they would combat “the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.” They would prevent America’s adversaries from meddling in its elections. The founders created the Electoral College, in other words, in part to prevent the election of someone like Donald Trump.


 

Pantagruel

(2,580 posts)
13. Convincing the "Faithless"
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 09:43 PM
Dec 2016



As I see it, best chance to convince electors to deny Trump is to stress the EC issue.
The only way to get the GOP to move on changing the EC is to make it cost them.
Take away their Trump win and watch how fast they vote to eliminate the Electoral College.
That's the approach I'd take to convincing electors to consider being "Faithless".

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
15. If they don't become "faithless," we will suffer the dire consequences of a "faithless" president.
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 09:47 PM
Dec 2016

And I like your idea of shoving the Electoral College in the collective face of the Republican party.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
17. Good News
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 10:40 PM
Dec 2016

If this movement or the recounts flip this election that is good/bad news.....the bad part is his foaming at the mouth fans would try to start another Civil War.

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