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Related: About this forumPaul Ryan re: "Our rights come from God and nature, not the government"
Doesn't the link contradict the whole American creation myth? He contradicts himself in the first few seconds. Says American is an idea (which come from men....leaders of the independance movement...the future government I would think follows) and then he says "our rights come from God and nature, not government"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pMQw6fsF_ts
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)That and the Bill of Rights that if elected, these two assholes would swear to uphold wouldn't be?
These monkeys are dangerous!
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Enquiring, gun-toting morons want to know.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)JHB
(37,158 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 12, 2012, 08:49 AM - Edit history (1)
Who do you think enforces those laws, interprets them, and passes judgment on violators?
Us mere mortals, that's who, and the mechanism we use to do so is da government.
So you can think whatever gives you the jollies, but as a practical matter, it's kind of moot.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,127 posts)Remember, they want to drill for oil in national parks
and sell federal lands to their wealthy buddies to lease for oil drilling
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Volaris
(10,270 posts)An honest Republican would state that a person in North Korea has just much claim to free and fair elections (as a God-Given or Human Right) as we do here, and the Constitution is the thing that CODIFIES those Rights into enforceable Laws. A SMART Honest Republican will then tell you that a captured member of a terrorist network possesses an innate Right NOT to be tortured, because OUR Government extends those Rights to ANYONE under our Governmental or Legal jurisdiction or authority. Too bad Jr. and Crew never figured this out...
A dumb and/or dishonest Republican (the aforementioned Jr. and Crew) believes these Rights DO INDEED come form God, but that they only apply to those Humans lucky enough to have been BORN HERE, and everyone else's God-Given or Human Rights be damned.
All of the Smart and Honest Republicans in the country have either been voted from office, or changed sides by now. The cognitive dissonance that's going to come from the other side in the next 3 months is going to be hella fun to use as a weapon against them.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)-snip-
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with one another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitles them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
http://www.lonang.com/conlaw/7/c71b.htm
applegrove
(118,613 posts)"Nature's God" is NOT the God of the Christian Fundies in this country, by a damn site.
Smilo
(1,944 posts)if you believe what you said - why are you sucking at the government's teat and taking all you can, while making laws requiring others to do what you say?
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)I thought there were different kinds of rights...
1. Natural rights- come from god or nature
2. Civil rights- comes from government
3. Legal rights- again government
meanit
(455 posts)He's saying that numbers 2 & 3 don't count because the government shouldn't be in the "rights" business.
This man is a dangerous Fascist.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)See the bolded sentence below.
When I heard him say that I thought: HUH? You just said that it was God that gave us our rights! LOL
Excerpt from Ryan's speech:
-snip-
The commitment Mitt Romney and I make to you is this:
We won't duck the tough issues...we will lead!
We won't blame others...we will take responsibility!
We won't replace our founding principles...we will reapply them!
We will honor you, our fellow citizens, by giving you the right and opportunity to make the choice:
What kind of country do we want to have?
What kind of people do we want to be? We can turn this thing around. Real solutions can be delivered. But, it will take leadership. And the courage to tell you the truth.
Mitt Romney is this kind of leader. I'm excited for what lies ahead and I'm thrilled to be a part of America's Comeback Team. And together, we will unite America and get this done.
Thank you.
Norbert
(6,039 posts)Paul Ryan will give us rights.
That means Paul Ryan is G...
Beam us up Scotty. We must find a place with intelligent life.
FlaGranny
(8,361 posts)What kind of rights are provided by nature? The right to try to avoid being eaten by wild beasts? What rights are provided by God? - the right to worship at his feet? God never said much about rights, but a lot about rules and punishment.
What an arrogant, idiotic pair R&R make.
RC
(25,592 posts)Government did not grant me any rights. Government can only deny rights.
Whose god? There are many thousands of gods, some good, some bad and everywhere in between. How can one persons god give me rights when another persons god takes those same rights away? And if I believe in neither god? Whose god given rights do I have?
No, I have certain unalienable rights merely because I exist. The right to Life. The freedom to come and go as I please. The right of personal security. The right for food and water. The right for shelter. Medical attention, when I need it. I have the right to think whatever I wish. We all have these rights and many more just because we are alive.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
How does this fit into the Republican agenda?
jody
(26,624 posts)inherent, unalienable/inalienable attributes of sovereign individuals. They preexist the Constitution and do not depend upon it for legitimacy.
Our Constitution requires government to protect all such rights whether enumerated or unenumerated for a majority or a minority.
Most important, its impossible to give away an unalienable/inalienable right.
Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)Unequally, Well that has to make the 10 O'Clock News.
Paul Ryan is a blender without the cord.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And we see where that got him.
bucolic_frolic
(43,127 posts)Me and God decide, get it?
bucolic_frolic
(43,127 posts)why do they want to be elected to office?
To use the government to exploit others for their own benefit.
Overseas
(12,121 posts)Even the pompous precious Paul...
Thanks to Octafish for "Paul Ryan is a Crook" http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021111622
Overseas
(12,121 posts)I think that may be the tactic the RR team will use. Appeal to those who will have faith that as a self-appointed devoted Christian, he wouldn't hurt our country or bankrupt the middle class and poor even more.
I hope that enough reminders of Ryan's love of atheist Ayn Rand and Romney's Mormonism will keep those born again people from voting for them.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,406 posts)"God built that"?
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)The Enlightenment view of the individual's relation to government is based in a concept called natural rights. For details, I recommend reading Rousseau's three treatises (On the Arts and Sciences, The Origins of Inequality and The Social Contract). This idea also comes from Locke, who is even more influential on American thought on this matter. The key phrase of the Declaration of Independence is practically plagiarized from Locke:
Note that Jefferson, the author of the Declaration, also says that rights come from a "Creator," elsewhere referred to as "The Laws of Nature and Nature's God." In any case, natural rights come from a higher authority than the government. The government, in Jefferson's view, is merely an instrument "instituted among men" for he purpose of "securing" those rights. Nowhere does Jefferson state that rights originate with the government. A more recent American Constitutional scholar, Mr. Alberto Gonzales, held to the idea that such rights do originate with the government. A brief outline of Mr. Gonzales' ideas may be found here, in a discussion of the Senate judiciary committee concerning the right of Habeas Corpus. Please note that Mr. Gonzales and I do not see eye-to-eye on this matter. In fact, I think that Mr. Gonzales' ideas on this matter are more consistent with another post-enlightenment idea, fascism.
Mr. Ryan and I certainly agree on the concept of natural rights as being something that governments do not create but are merely instruments to protect. I suspect that Mr. Ryan agrees with Senator Specter, as I do, that Mr. Gonzales' ideas on this matter "violate common sense."
Where Mr. Ryan and I don't agree is on the matter of owning private property as a natural right. In a nutshell, he believes not only is it a natural right but it the foundation of all other rights. I do not. First of all, I believe that when we start talking about private property, we are discussing a human state well beyond a state of nature. Insofar as owning property is a right of any kind, it would have to be derived from a natural right found in human societies unburdened by modern, urban culture, that is to say in hunter/gatherer societies. We don't find private property in those societies. Personal property, like the sirt on one's back, yes, we find that, but not private property, which is something that is posited by industrialization. While I don't see owning private property in and of itself as a violation of any natural right, there are ways the owner of private property may use his wealth that do violate the natural rights of man. For example, if I deposit money in a savings account, then my expectations are that the money will compound interest and grow; the bank may use that money, but that which I have deposited is mine, the interest that the money has earned is mine and after the bank is through using it, that which is mine is still there. There is no natural right that allows the bank to use my money in a reckless and irresponsible way and lose it and not replace it. (Am I getting through to you, Mr. Dimon?)
I also disagree with Mr. Ryan's concept of natural rights as expressed in his budget proposals. This will create a social inequality of critical levels such that civil unrest becomes a natural response to very unnatural deprivation. That will necessitate either the alteration or abolition of a government that has become destructive to natural rights, or the establishment of a police state that in and of itself must be abolished.
catbyte
(34,371 posts)Fucking racist, classist way of thinking. I suppose they're going to repeal the Civil Rights Act because it came from government?
What a dangerous, dangerous ticket.
tclambert
(11,085 posts)He wants to go back to the morality of the Robber Barons. If you had the might, you could do anything you wanted. In today's world, if you're rich enough, you can do what you want, rob everybody else, and no law can touch you.