Christian Group Wants Native Tribe Brought to Justice for Death of Missionary John Chau

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

[Roy Rolling]

1. The Lord Already Passed Judgement

Let It Be.

[dameatball]

2. This man just didn't wake up one morning and decide to do this.

Someone or some group encouraged him and he thought Christ would be his shield (my words, maybe not theirs). He was not a refugee seeking asylum. He was not a lost tourist. He disobeyed the laws of a sovereign nation and bribed someone to assist him. I feel sorrow for him and his family, but this basically stone age tribe has a right to disappear from the face of the earth with dignity. Leave them the hell alone.

[Power 2 the People]

3. +1

[2naSalit]

20. [phone]!!

[gopiscrap]

26. well said

[erronis]

4. Let's bring said christian group to judgement for 2,000 years of cruelty and murder.

Make them exhume every body that was tortured since their little cult started. Let them repay all their ill-gotten gains from extortion of native people as well as the dimwits who pledge allegiance to the holy-man at the front of their church.

[Kind of Blue]

14. +1000 Thank You.

[erronis]

15. My pleasure. Religion, to me, is still the cause of horrible trauma to many people.

I'll not try to differentiate between the ones that espouse getting along with others and those that treat others as infidels.

It's mainly the identifying-with part that causes the harm. Identifying with my family, my neighbors, my tribe/nation. Exclusion of others. Being threatened by others. Targeting others.

Thanks for that Coltrane reference. I grew up in the 50s/60s and loved his style. Miles Davis vinyl, named after you, was the first music I bought as a 14yo kid.

[Kind of Blue]

22. You and I are coming from the same place, erronis.

And still the appetite for harm does not stop. Recently I learned, as the lady stated in the video, that pedophilic Catholic priests were sent to countries in Africa to satisfy their urges. I shudder thinking how long that has been going on.

My parents were indoctrinated, too, in Christian faiths in Africa and I got a good dose of it here, too. But I could never ever accept the horror and hypocrisy and rejected the religion though I do understand the spiritual connection that many feel, but it's definitely no different in the power of the feeling of connection than any other religion.

Anyway, yes, Coltrane and Miles! I didn't know who to pick as my avatar and decided to honor both. Kind of Blue is to me a spiritual experience.

[shenmue]

34. Nope

[Mickju]

70. I would go along with that.

[Downtown Hound]

5. Sanctimonious twats

He knew it was forbidden, he knew the dangers, he went anyways. He has no one to blame but himself.

[exboyfil]

6. Castle doctrine baby

[pandr32]

7. Clear case of self-defense

I would hope that these groups learn the lesson they apparently missed from countless historical examples. Instead of bringing these native people to justice for protecting themselves they should help provide a buffer zone to protect these native, untouched people from contact from the rest of us for as long as possible.

[Merlot]

9. Florida has a name for it: Stand your ground.

He was warned (warning arrow didn't hit him) and he didn't turn back. He was tresspassing. Case closed.

[pandr32]

71. Driven by religious entitlement

[Squinch]

8. His approach to that tribe was an act of attempted mass murder. They have no immunity

to the diseases he carries with him, and other tribes in similar situations have been wiped out as soon as they are exposed to other people.

He knew this.

They may not have known it, but they were acting in self defense.

[dalton99a]

11. +1

[sinkingfeeling]

10. The tribesmen acted in self defense.... not guilty.

[RKP5637]

12. You can't take the stupid out of stupid with a revenge mass killing. n/t

[catbyte]

13. Give me a goddamned break.

Sanctimonious, arrogant, self-righteous assholes. How about some penance for what they did to my family? My mom was born in 1924 and was forced to go to an "Indian School" run by nuns before she was adopted by my grandparents. She never wanted to wear sleeveless outfits or swimming suits in public because she was self-conscious of the scars on her shoulders and upper back from the "discipline" meted out by those evil, vile "Brides of Jesus." What could a little 8-year-old girl do to deserve such punishment, you ask? She said, "Thank you" in Ojibwe instead of English, and other assorted "sins against Jesus." They were nothing but sadistic old perverts who got off on torturing children. And they wonder why only 4% of Native Americans identify as Christian. They're a cancer on this world. All evangelical and fundamental religions are. Fuck them all.

[2naSalit]

21. +1

[blue-wave]

37. Agreed

They even destroyed other Christian groups as I discovered in my families' history. My families' ancestral home in present day Poland was forcibly taken from them and the Eastern Orthodox church that served their ethnic group was demolished to make way for a "playground" for Polish children. This ethnic group, the Lemko, were ethnically cleansed from their homeland of centuries. Although not much history is written about this tragic event or the placing of blame on the Catholic church, I suspect otherwise. How did Poland become an almost exclusive Roman Catholic country but throughout it's history it never was? As a people, Lemko have been misunderstood and abused by more powerful neighbors.

The Lemko are descended from the White Croatians, White in ancient terms, meaning western and have been known by many names throughout the ages. From White Croats to Lemko, Carpathian Rus, Ruthenians, Rusyns, Rusins and more. Some better known Americans of Lemko descent are Andy Warhol, actors Robert Urich and Adrian Pasdar, as well as Tom Ridge.

In present day Europe they are, as Warhol once said, "from nowhere." They are a people without a country because of ugly and evil hatred, bigotry and greed. They live mostly within present day Poland, Slovakia and Ukraine along the North and South foothills of the Carpathian mountain range. They have a long and complicated history, so I could go on and on.

Having their lands stolen from them and being so misunderstood is something I feel they have in common with the Native American experience.

[HeartLikeAWheel]

68. Operation Vistula

Hello from another ethnic Lemko! I visited the Beskid Niski in 2007 for the 60th anniversary of Operation Vistula, the name for the action that removed the Lemko and others from that area of the Carpathians. I was visiting some of my father's cousins, who lived through it. The experience was humbling.

[blue-wave]

69. Yes, A sad chapter in the history of the human race

Glad you're here! BTW, I only recently discovered my Lemko heritage. I have a feeling there are many Lemko-Americans who don't know their true heritage. It was never spoken about or taught to the children, I guess they didn't want the kids to know about the hateful actions and personal pain involved. When I started digging into the history I couldn't get enough. They are an amazing and resourceful people.

[SunSeeker]

16. What happened to "turn the other cheek"?

[keithbvadu2]

17. Missionary boot camp

Missionary boot camp

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211494772

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/john-chau-aced-missionary-boot-camp-reality-proved-a-harsher-test/ar-BBQjIiu?li=BBnbcA1

[Kind of Blue]

18. There is one man who did make contact with the

Sentinelese people but it took 23 years of trying. Anthropologist TN Pandit...

Despite his own experience of tense exchanges with the Sentinelese, Mr Pandit resists labelling them as hostile.

"That is the incorrect way to look at it. We are the aggressors here," he told the Indian Express. "We are the ones trying to enter their territory."

"Sentinelese are a peace-loving people. They don't seek to attack people. They don't visit nearby areas and cause trouble. This is a rare incident," he told the BBC.

Mr Pandit says he does favour the re-establishment of friendly gift-dropping missions with the tribe, but says they should not be disturbed.

"We should respect their wish to be left alone," he said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46350130

[cstanleytech]

19. Personally I would not label them peace loving if they are willing to kill people like this guy.

On the other hand I am not demanding them to be arrested either because they killed this guy because it was well known that they had killed others in the past who even came near their island so imo his death is his own fault.

[Kind of Blue]

23. Well, we differ on what's considered peace-loving.

I agree with you on the second part, the well-documented accounts of their hostility when approached are impossible to overlook.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

24. While it is sad that this young man chose to put himself in a position

of danger, it was HIS CHOICE.

Indian government authorities had warned him repeatedly to refrain from intruding upon the Sentinalese people. They are protected by Indian law. He chose to ignore the laws of a sovereign nation.

He chose to continue to attempt to gain access to the island by bribing fishermen and others to evade the Indian Navy, who had been instructed to apprehend him if he approached the island. He then bragged about being able to conceal himself from them, watching them as they searched for him.

He chose to ignore the outcome of his first attempt to traverse the lagoon when arrows hit his canoe, one of them getting stuck in his bible.

He chose to return the next day, despite all that had transpired, knowing full well that he was violating international treaties, ignoring the laws of a sovereign nation and displaying a staggering disrespect for these people.

The one thing that ties all of this together are the choices he made.

[Laffy Kat]

30. Even attempting to connect with with the people was an act of aggression, IMO.

Because they have no immunity against our pathogens, he could have inadvertently wiped out the entire island with a flu virus. I am sad for his family but this was on him and I hope others pay heed and them alone.

[cstanleytech]

32. If we were talking about a people that have had zero contact with others I would probably agree

that they faced grave risks like what happened to the native Americans however they have been in contact with others in person albeit most of the time violently.
Plus from what I have read they have scavenged items off varies ship wrecks when they occur on the island from time to time so the odds are that they have probably contracted most of the common viruses already.
That aside the guy should have heeded the rules about not going to the island and his death is largely of his own doing.

[Laffy Kat]

33. So one more exposure is no big deal?

I disagree. More and more people are refusing to get vaccinated against our own childhood diseases as it is. How do we know he wasn't an anti-vaxxer due to "religious beliefs"? I have little use for missionaries. This was all about his ego and how great he would feel to "save" a native people who do not need saving.

[treestar]

56. He did know that and try to account for it

Not defending him for going there, but he did get vaccinations and try to quarantine himself for a while. That may not have been effective, but he did not intend to harm them by disease. That would conflict with his desire to connect them to Jesus. Though that would have been tough - he'd also have to have been the first to figure out their language. He planned to write the Bible in their language. Silly but that was what he planned.

[Laffy Kat]

58. But even a common cold virus could be bad.

No, this was ignorance and ego pure and simple. I am so sorry this happened but he needed to leave them alone. Writing the Bible in their language? Oh, please. This is what infuriates me about missionaries. The world would be so much better off w/o them.

[bitterross]

25. How about we charge them as accessories instead?

This makes my blood boil. They're the type of people who encourage naive and impressionable young people like that kid to do these things. To put his life in danger.

If you commit a bank robbery and your accomplice is killed during the crime, you can be charged with his death. The responsibility for this young man's death lies squarely with the organization that sent him. By all means, charge them with his death. THAT would be justice.

[The Genealogist]

27. In his quest to destroy a unique and legally protected culture

with his religious message, an idiot manages to get himself killed by members of said culture. In his doing, he also endangered the lives of that unique culture with diseases that could wipe it out. He broke the law in his foolish attempt. And now his fellow self-centered, self-righteous religious comrades want justice on their terms. If they were helping him in doing this, they should be the ones tried, as accessories to his crime(s). That takes some gall.

[Raven123]

28. I wonder how they feel about Trump's border wall

[Croney]

29. But he wore the sacred invisible mantle of protection

issued by the magic unicorn in the sky. Surely the heathens would bow at his feet and declare him their great leader.

Oh, I guess his faith was not strong enough, he didn't believe deeply enough, he didn't lead a holy enough life, and that's why he got zapped. Ok.

[LakeSuperiorView]

31. Were they expecting tear gas and rubber arrows would be used?

Do these morons understand that any "justice" would be Sentinelese? That the laws of other countries have no bearing there?

[Bayard]

35. Guilty

This, "Christian group", needs to be brought to justice for sending a gullible kid into this situation.

Millions of people have been killed by organized religion's arrogant doctrine--You Will Be Assimilated. Who says their religion is any better than these Natives?

I hate that shit.

[ToxMarz]

36. I think the tribe has already enacted their sovereign justice

If they which to contest it, I think they know where to go. Good Luck! (/sarcasm)

[Quixote1818]

38. Trying to bring a 2,000 year old religion to a 60,000 year old culture

Not too bright.

[yuiyoshida]

39. Japan must be the only country that threw CHRISTIANS out of their country

Persecution under the Shogunate
Main articles: Martyrs of Japan and Kakure Kirishitan
Under Hideyoshi and the succeeding Tokugawa shogunate, Catholic Christianity was repressed and adherents were persecuted. During these times, many Christians were killed in Japan, some by crucifixion; most famously, the twenty-six martyrs of Japan were tortured and crucified on crosses outside Nagasaki to discourage Christianity in 1597. Following a brief respite as Tokugawa Ieyasu rose to power and pursued trade with the Portuguese powers, there were further persecutions and martyrdoms in 1613, 1630, and 1632.

By this point, after the Shimabara Rebellion, the remaining Christians had been forced to publicly renounce their faith. Many continued practicing Christianity in secret, in modern times becoming known as the "hidden Christians" (隠れキリシタン kakure kirishitan). These secret believers would often conceal Christian iconography in closed shrines, lanterns or inconspicuous parts of buildings. For example, Himeji Castle has a Christian cross on one of its 17th-century roof tiles, in place of a mon, indicating that one of its occupants was a secret Christian.[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Japan

Today in Japan the Christian population remains under 1% while most Japanese remain Shinto-Buddhists because as one Japanese told me, that to become Christian is considered bad luck in Japan, and Japanese are very superstitious.

Most Christian missionaries are totally frustrated with Japan, and have learned time and time again, that this is a society that won't be threatened or baited by the concepts of Christianity.

[Kind of Blue]

40. Amazing. Thanks for this, yuiyoshida.

I remember in the '80s when Saint Marina of Omura was canonized. Went searching for more martyrs/saints of Japan and also found a Scorsese film of 2016 that I'd never heard of, "Silence," based on a 1966 book of the same title by Japanese author Shūsaku Endō. Seems it was critically acclaimed but didn't get much buzz, I guess since De Niro or DiCaprio weren't in it

Centuries later, we have the Sentinelese asserting the same rights. I hope that their demand will continue to be respected.

[panfluteman]

63. I Saw That Movie, It Was Very Well Done!

[Kind of Blue]

65. Thanks for your review!

I think I saw it's on Netflix and I'm watching tonight.

[panfluteman]

67. The Most Interesting Thing That This Movie Brought Out

Was how adept the Japanese governmental authorities were at using psychological warfare to break the spirit of the missionaries.

[Kind of Blue]

74. Thank you! My interest is really piqued now.

I ordered it from Best Buy. It wasn't on Netflix as was in the search results this weekend.

[lostnfound]

41. Nagasaki Church

Something happened to it in the 40s...

[panfluteman]

62. Interesting Post About the Kakure Kirishitans, Yoshida San!

One thing has always intrigued me: Why has Christianity done so poorly in Japan, while in neighboring Korea it has done so well? Do you have any opinions or theories about this phenomenon?

[yuiyoshida]

64. I have an answer for that

It has to do with Shinto being the first religion. China soon there after exported Buddhism. For a long time factions grew up battling each other whether to be buddhist or Shinto. The fighting took place year after year, entire families slaughtered until a monk came up with a compromise. Shinto and Buddhism would be married..

Just as this problem was solved, Christianity showed up. Having gone though all the bloodshed, the Shogun said "ENOUGH!!! NO more RELIGIONS!! "

[Dopers_Greed]

42. It was this idiot's own fault that he died

And he likely will wipe out the entire tribe if he gave them any pathogens.

[Iggo]

43. John Chau was brought to justice by the Sentinelese.

Case closed.

[Mosby]

45. what crime did he commit that deserved death?

[Iggo]

48. Apparently, trespassing. (n/t)

[Iggo]

72. IBTSD. (n/t)

[Iggo]

47. Fuck him.

[Curmudgeoness]

49. It wasn't murder.

They were protecting their borders. It was illegal to go there, yet this guy just had to go anyways. And now he is dead. It has nothing to do with "because the victim was a Christian" except that it was the only reason that he broke the law and went there.

[Demit]

51. The two situations are nowhere near analogous.

[Demit]

53. You're not using hyperbole, you're using sophistry.

[Iggo]

60. We don't. They do. And he knew it.

[treestar]

54. I don't think that is their mindset

There was a time when they intermarried with nearby tribes - they were not so isolated. Then

An expedition led by Maurice Vidal Portman, a government administrator who hoped to research the natives and their customs, accomplished a successful landing on North Sentinel Island in January 1880. The group found a network of pathways and several small, abandoned villages. After several days, six Sentinelese, an elderly couple and four children, were captured and taken to Port Blair. The colonial officer in charge of the operation wrote that the entire group, "sickened rapidly, and the old man and his wife died, so the four children were sent back to their home with quantities of presents".[2][26][27]:288

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island


Maybe that experience made them that afraid of outsider visits? It is possible all they see is potential kidnapping and think they are defending themselves.

The wikipedia page lists other contacts made with them.

[Oneironaut]

46. "The bear ripped my friend apart when we entered its cave. I want revenge!" - Human logic

[geardaddy]

75. +1

[pansypoo53219]

57. he survived his 1st attempt. he was warned. 2nd attempt on his stupid. now he's with jeesus.

[shanny]

59. Someone should tell them his death was Evolution in Action. nt

[panfluteman]

61. I'm Totally Sickened by the Outrageous Hypocrisy of Christians Claiming Persecution!

Not only is Christianity the largest religion in the world today, but it also has such a terrible history of perpetrating persecution and genocide on others, and for trying to shove their religion down others' throats in the name of Jesus Christ. But when you really study the history of Christianity, it was a religion started in the name of Jesus Christ - and there's no solid proof that it was the actual religion or teachings OF Jesus Christ. Furthermore, there is no solid, indisputable proof that Jesus Christ even existed.

These indigenous people assert their right to defend their borders and keep to themselves by killing this unwanted intruder, and his Christian missionary organization has the nerve to try to "bring them to justice"!

The whole history of the Americas is one big story of rape, pillage and plunder, using missionaries as the initial shock troops for the cynical and ruthless commercial exploitation of native peoples that would come later. Frankly, I never really understood why any Native Americans at all converted to Christianity, the religion of their colonial oppressors and enslavers. There's nothing wrong with this Jesus Christ and the godly way he supposedly lived, but why the heck did all these white Christian colonialists who claim to follow his religion and teachings behave in such ungodly ways? Gandhi really liked Jesus Christ, but he said that Christ was totally unlike those who call themselves Christians.

The Native Americans like to joke, "First they had the book, and we had the land... and now, we have the book, and they have the land."