Dr. Patel: TX Attempt To Restrict Women's Healthcare Is 'Utterly Nonsensical' - Deadline - MSNBC

[Rhiannon12866]

Former Obama White House health policy director Dr. Kavita Patel and National Women’s Law Center president Fatima Goss Graves discuss the growing state-led abortion restrictions across the country and how future Supreme Court rulings could affect the future of Roe v. Wade. Aired on 10/11/2021.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. I wish someone would ask the following questions

Last edited Tue Oct 12, 2021, 01:06 AM - Edit history (1)

of the lawmakers making these bans on abortion:

Have you ever been pregnant?

Were you ever told your fetus had a condition incompatible with life?

Were you ever told that continuing your pregnancy could possibly result in your death?

Have you ever been pregnant and knew that your circumstances were such that you could not possibly provide for a baby?

Clearly the answers to all of these would be "no." Perhaps the final question could be something along the lines of, "Why do you think you can decide that someone else should give birth, when you yourself never have?"

I'm very aware of many such issues. When I was pregnant with my second child, and would be 38 when it would be born, my OB encouraged me to have a prenatal test for Down Syndrome. I refused, somewhat to the horror of my husband and mother. I knew there was a certain risk because of my age, but I honestly would have been okay with a baby with Down Syndrome. As it happened, he was born completely normal, neurotypical, and was a wonderful, wonderful baby, child, person. For anyone else who'd choose to have the testing, who would choose to not have a child with Down Syndrome, I will only say, that is exactly what choice is all about. It's not that we should all choose the same, but that we have the freedom to decide and choose what is best for us individually.

[Rhiannon12866]

2. That's the thing.

It's totally beyond me why the very personal choices of someone we will never know is any of my business or anyone else's. It is absolutely reprehensible to attempt to legislate anyone's personal health choices.

Your post reminded me of an article I read before a previous election. This male candidate (don't remember his name and he never specified his party) told the story of his wife's long ago pregnancy - with a much wanted child. But something went wrong and it was determined that the fetus was no longer viable. What was needed ASAP was a D&C to remove the deteriorating tissue - which, if allowed to remain, would have killed his wife. However, since this was legally determined to be an abortion. which was illegal where they were, no doctor or hospital would agree to the procedure. As anyone can imagine, this was a desperate situation. The wife's life was immediately threatened.

At the last minute, they finally managed to contact someone they knew who agreed to perform the procedure - and his wife's life was spared, but it was a very close call. I cannot imagine the fear, frustration and anguish they experienced. And this was in addition to losing what could have been a much wanted child. This procedure did not end any "life," but managed to save one. And this candidate explained this is why he is pro choice. We never can know what anyone else's situation is and what they're experiencing.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

3. Thank you for that story.

This is the rather hypocritical example of someone who made darn well the needed abortion was obtained even if he'd prevent anyone else from getting one.

I'm relatively old, 73, so I personally am long past the age of ever needing an abortion. And I'm old enough to remember what it was like prior to Roe v Wade. I remember a family friend sending her daughter to Hawaii to get a legal abortion there some time in the late 1960s. I knew several women who jumped through stupid hoops to get a legal abortion in Washington DC before 1972. In the 1960s I knew of several women who did desperate things to cause a miscarriage. This is not what we want to go back to.

I do recall reading about a decade after Roe v Wade that younger doctors had no idea what it was like to deal with the aftermath of illegal, back alley abortions. I also recall reading some decades ago that in Brazil, a country that had no legal abortion whatsoever, had half of their maternity ward beds taken up by women who'd had illegal abortions. Think about that. No legal abortion. Half of all maternity beds occupied by women having illegal abortions.

Or Romania, where abortion was so strictly forbidden that it was impossible to get, and women who had unwanted pregnancies simply abandoned those children, and orphanages were filled with those unwanted children, who were just barely given food and a diaper change. No attention whatsoever, and so they simply did not develop into proper human beings because they had essentially zero human contact. Is that what we want?

[Rhiannon12866]

4. I agree that there would be horrific repercussions if this country were forced to return to those days

And the point of that story and why it sticks with me is that the candidate wanted to make the point that we can never know what anyone else is experiencing and why legislating such personal matters can have deadly and terrible results.

One would think that, after all this time, this country would have learned something, but obviously not if we keep electing those who feel it's appropriate to legislate personal medical matters. I agree that abortion needs to remain legal, safe and rare. Education is the key, another essential issue that the RW wants to see restricted.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

5. Anyone under the age of 70 just cannot recall

what it was like before Roe v Wade. Abortions were secret, shameful, never spoken of in public. All too often abortion resulted in the death of the mother or her permanent sterility. There's reason to think that a lot of Hollywood stars who had secret abortions in the 1920s or 1930s or even the 1940s were left unable to have children. But the secrecy was paramount. Such things were not talked about. And it wasn't just such public women, but many women out there.

[Rhiannon12866]

6. When I was in my 20s, I remember hearing her story from a woman in her 40s

From what I recall, she said she traveled to Puerto Rico for an abortion and was required to wear a mask the entire time so she couldn't see where she was being taken or who she was dealing with. That sounded bad enough to me, let alone the horrors other women experienced before Roe. We never want to return to those days. BTW, this woman apparently had a "safe" abortion, I believe she subsequently had 4 children.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

7. Thank you for that story.

The stories of abortion before Roe v Wade can be horrific at best. I am truly glad to know your friend went on to have children, which I am guessing she really wanted.