TYT: 'Weak-Kneed' Obama Killed Public Option - New Book

[WhoIsNumberNone]

[AtomicKitten]

1. So, the 13 Blue Dog Senators adamantly opposed to the PO had nothing to do with it, right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8516732

Pahleeeeeze.

[emulatorloo]

2. + Lieberman (I)

[AtomicKitten]

3. You're right. ZZ included him in the 13. Thanks.

[emulatorloo]

8. I never miss an opportunity to bash Joementum by name, you know?

[AtomicKitten]

11. I hear you. When opportunity knocks -

[kenfrequed]

23. Evan Bayh

Lieberman is only one of the more obvious targets. Bayh actually organized the blue dogs that planned on sitting in the middle of the scales and leaning right to destroy progressive reform. However, knowing what we know now about Geitner and Rahm and others, to me it is clear that the Blue Dogs could only have done the damage they did by having a sympathetic element in the White House.

Even this book itself does not make so bold an accusation as to say that President Obama himself attempted to get the director of this health group fired, but rather some of his staff pushed for it. Obama chose too many insiders and party conservatives and corporatists for his advisers and staff and they became a washington fishbowl to warp what was and wasn't possible and what was and wasn't worth pursuing. I don't blame President Obama as much as I blame the institutional sorts.

[Lionessa]

5. How does the weakness of Senators excuse the weakness of the President?

It doesn't. Particularly when those Senators are on his team and he is supposed to be the leader of that team. So he was weak about the public option and he is a weak member of his party and he is a weak manager of the political process.

Unfortunately for you, pointing out that he caved to his own party DINOs only indicts him worse, since he was supposed to be leading not caving.

[AtomicKitten]

6. You obviously have no clue how government works. Did you miss Civics 101 in high school?

[Lionessa]

12. Critical thinking is definitely a challenge for many who see books as the end of

education, and a 101 course at that.

He caved before the Senate passed anything.

[AtomicKitten]

13. Uh huh.

Do go on -

[msongs]

16. he didnt cave, he never bothered. not a fierce advocate of this issue really but

military spending, hey no problem

[Lionessa]

17. On this one I think he did, I recall speeches promoting a strong public option, but then

he caved into the mandate and no public option.

Either way, you're right about his being a chicken hawk.

[bluestateguy]

4. Cowardly Senate conservocrats killed the public option

Lieberman, Lincoln (Hey, how did that work out for you Blanche?), Ben Nelson, Bayh and the usual others.

It might be nice if some of the LW Obama haters would acknowledge that once in awhile.

Or the fact that Senate rules have evolved to a point where you need 60 votes to do anything meaningful.

[kenfrequed]

24. I do acknowledge that regularly

I never miss an opportunity to slam Bayh. He is as responsible as anyone in politics for stunting and wrecking what should have been a generational victory for the Democrats by giving us little to run on. He organized the blue dogs in december of 2008 to sit on the middle of the scales and to use their positions in various committees to squelch and kill progressive reform.

President Obama had the misfortune of choosing some of the friends and allies of the blue dogs and left over DLC scum and corporate Democrats to wallpaper his cabinet and his advisor positions. It was a mistake. I suspect he felt he could use them to convince and access the blue dogs and conservative element of his own party, unfortunately rather than granting him tools to convince the conservative element of his own party, they were able to manipulate him. His advisors became a fishbowl of conserva-dem nonsense and his communications clearly was looking to score points and victories based on nothing rather than to hold the repblicans to the fire for being the most obstructionist bunch in moern American history made easier by the number of conservative Democrats in congress that gave cover to the fillibusters and tricker of the Republican party.

[Enrique]

26. Obama was on the side of those conservocrats

on this issue, at least.

[sabrina 1]

7. Wow!

So, those who were saying all along that there was no fight for the PO, were correct after all.

Money trumps everything, once again.

[emulatorloo]

10. Or maybe they are still wrong.

Time will tell.

[Lionessa]

14. I think this is time telling. You seem to think this

just happened? Time will tell?

This is the looking back of it, imo.

[lamp_shade]

9. TYT?

[sabrina 1]

15. Actually all TYT did was report on a book written by someone who was an insider

during the HC debate. Someone who the President apparently respected enough to allow inside that debate.

Are you laughing because you knew we were being sold out and are happy to be proven correct, or is it because you think it's funny that special interests with big money have so much power over our government?

[gholtron]

18. Cenk, Why don't you tell the whole truth?

Everyone knows that if the public option was in that bill, it would NEVER pass the House and Senate. The President knew it. His advisors knew it, but apparently you didn't know it. Hell, he had the Republicans and Democrats on TV discussing this. Did you hear the Republican's response? It barely passed the House and Harry Reid had to use reconciliation to force it through the Senate. If the President didn't want a health plan then he would not have raised the issue. Do you think any other candidate will put the public option in once they are elected? Do you think Ron Paul will do it? Do you think any other candidate will even bring up the subject? Oh snap. They did. They want to do away with the whole thing. I guess you weren't paying any attention to the debates. I think it took courage to bring up this controversial bill that automately cost the Dem the house because people like you said well if I can't get PO then I am staying home in 2010. Well, to use your tag line, "How's that working out for you?"

[ihavenobias]

19. Why he should've started with Single Payer (to end up with a PO *or* at least a better bill)

One of my key frustrations with president Obama is that despite pushing at best marginally left of center policies he is still labeled a socialist/communist/radical leftist. While we can blame the right wing and mainstream media for that we can also blame him in so far as if you KNOW they're going to call you a socialist/communist/radical leftist regardless, it's smart politics and policy to actually push for progressive (read: effective) solutions.

I don't want a single payer system because it's "progressive". I want such a system because of the abundant evidence that it would be the best healthcare option. Let me guess, you're going to say "but the president could never get single payer passed through Congress!". Come on guys, you really think we don't know that?

It's not about being disappointed because we don't have single payer - almost no rational progressive I know thinks we were going to end up with it. However, the president could have easily put single payer on the table as the opening offer. It's negotiation 101 - when you hope to get someone to buy your home for $300k you don't LIST the house at $300k. Of course if you list the house at $300k a buyer will bid $225k or $250k and so on...in the end you obviously will not get the $300k you wanted. So your opening bid needs to be $350k, $400k so that during the negotiation process you END with the amount you wanted, or close to it.

Yet time and time again the president OPENS negotiations by going halfway toward the Republican position and then progressives get scolded for being incredibly disappointed when (surprise!) we end up with (at best) right of center/weak policies (no public option, not addressing derivatives in financial reform, etc.).

[gholtron]

20. The President does not write legislation.

He can't initially put anything on the table. These bills were in written in each chamber's committees. The White house stepped in when they were merging the House bill with the Senate bill.

[ihavenobias]

21. He can, however, come out in support of things

and put tremendous pressure, both publicly and privately, on Congress.

Again, from a political perspective it was a terrible idea to start with a public option. Of course the right and mainstream media came to refer to it as the extreme liberal position which is absurd.

If the opening offer (or attempt at an offer) was single payer, the right and MSM would've labeled it as a radical/socialist/government takeover - you know, basically everything they ended up calling the current healthcare plan!

But in the other scenario Dems would've been able to say "ok, fine, we WANT single payer but we'll be bipartisan and compromise down to the incredibly moderate public option". That would've made Democratic public option opponents out to be the non-moderates that they were.

At the very least they could've bargained down to something better (than what we ultimately got), using the nixing of single payer as a bargaining chip. Even if you think that wouldn't have worked in Congress it would've made it harder for the media to paint the plan as extreme, etc.

[anAustralianobserver]

22. What led Obama to cut the no PO deal? IMO he had a duty

to explain the process by which his dream PO policy was built and then undermined, even if it ended careers and reputations. Good people lost seats and dodgy people kept them - and the public panicked when they realised something was being covered up...

This passive cover-up (of the incompetence or wrong-doing of the main actors) fed and is still feeding the death panels/socialised medicine paranoia; and disillusionment and paranoia in the Dem base.

(PS. I think Cenk mischaracterises Obama's motives sometimes.)

[kenfrequed]

25. Actually

The majority of the Democrats that lost their seats were blue dogs. They were not all "good people." They paid the price for their corporate conservative democratic bullshit. Not that in electing Republicans to fill those seats did we get a real improvement, but the Democratic voters in those districts knew where their officials stood and some of them watched them. Blanche Lincoln was a prime example. I have no idea why the White House fought so hard for her against the obviously more populist (and shockingly more electable) primary challenge against her. I suspect it has something to do with the advisors that he surrounded himself with.