Dracarys -- GoT Episode spoilers.

[Baitball Blogger]

Well, that went about as bad as it could have gone. With Missandei falling to the Mountain's sword, per Cersei's orders, I'm thinking that our two revenge travelers are a day late. The Hound and Arya left Winterfell for King's Landing and there is no doubt what their mission is. Unfortunately, they're not riding fast enough.

Cersei is playing a strategy game that is intentionally meant to drive Dany into a rage and force her to make mistakes. Two more shows to go, and I'm thinking there is no time for reset or transition episodes to recover from a major mistake. Which means, that someone has to pull Daenarys from the brink and get her to focus. Obviously, that person is Jon.

Also don't like the interplay between Tyrion and Varys. Varys could turn betrayer, easily.

I am guessing that something has to happen, and soon, to make Daenarys sympathetic enough for Sansa and the North to see her as their queen. But, again, in two shows... I don't know.

[wcmagumba]

1. I thought for sure Tyrion...

was going to get a back full of arrows but he was in the preview for next week...

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Oh, so did I.

Cersei wanted to make sure that Tyrion understood that she really is a monster. I didn't need any more evidence. I had already made up my mind on that matter.

[Bradshaw3]

52. The fact that he didn't really didn't make sense

Or that Cersei didn't use those lance shooting contraptions to take out Dany and her little troop right then. If they can shoot down a dragon in mid-air from what looked like a mile away on a ship the half-dozen or so on the towers could have easil wiped out Dany's group. But that would have ruined next week's epic battle.

[exboyfil]

2. Jon pulled a Ned

Telling Sansa about being Aegon.

[Baitball Blogger]

3. I know. The obvious expectation is that Sansa is going to spoil Daenary's claim to the throne.

Actually, she broke her promise to Jon, so that is going to cause tension between them. Which means, that the only way that this has a happy ending, is if Sansa accepts Dany.

But, it's GoT. Why should we assume it will have a happy ending?

[Iggo]

18. "...she broke her promise to Jon..."

When my SIL saw that, she yelled out, "Jesus Christ, Sansa! You told the first person you saw!"

[pangaia]

5. What in the world are you talking about? Did I miss something?

[Baitball Blogger]

6. Tonight's episode of Game of Thrones.

[pangaia]

15. LOL Sorry...

Goes to show you where I'm at.

[Loki Liesmith]

7. Dany's a fraud

Been looking forward to her death for a while.

Hopefully she and Cersei both die and then John Varys and Tyrion create a parliament.

[shanny]

12. as seen on the intertoobz:

melt down the Iron Throne and turn it into ballot boxes

[tblue37]

8. Danaerys has lost the plot. She essentially said she would "destroy the village in order

to save it."

She is power mad and and and cares only about her destiny and her "right" to the throne she calls "my throne." She still claims to want to free the people from tyrants and cruelty, but she plans to use cruel and tyrannical methods to do so.

Besides her "will to power" drive to claim the throne, her only other strong motivator is revenge.

[dixiegrrrrl]

38. well, now that she is the "mother of dragon" ( singular) I see a possible ending.

the show is killing the dragons off....

Possible.....the last dragon gets dead, which removes a lot of fear of dany's followers, so she and John end up sharing the throne.

or.....same thing, except it is tyrion who ends up on the throne, he's been spouting off a lot talk about how rulers should act.

[mainstreetonce]

9. Is Jaime going back to save Cersae or kill her?

To save her because she carries his child or to kill her which is the prophecy?

[shanny]

11. I think he thinks he is going back to save her

but will kill her instead.

[sweetloukillbot]

17. And he'll say "The things I do for love" when it happens n/t

[shanny]

10. Personally I think both Dany and her dragon will die

proving she is worthy to be queen.

[Baitball Blogger]

13. A suicide mission to prove her love for Jon?

[shanny]

14. No. Not for Jon.

I remember when Sam asked Jon if she would give up her crown to save her people. We have seen her feet of clay and her over-arching ambition. We know she has something to prove to these people who do not love her...and to complete her story arc she may sacrifice herself for the greater good (instead of assuming "only I can fix it&quot ahem).

Also I'm pretty sure now--despite Jon's obvious fitness--that he will not rule in King's Landing. I think Tyrion will. He is suited for it (unlike Dany), he enjoys it (unlike Jon)...and in the very first book, there was a scene at Winterfell where he cast a giant-sized shadow on the wall, and another at Castle Black where Maester Aemon pegged him for a great man, to his discomfort.

[sweetloukillbot]

16. I think Tyrion and Sansa will rule

They're the smartest, most capable, and the last episode showed they have at the very least, respect and some affection for each other.
Jon might survive, but I don't think he'll take the throne (if it even still exists - King's Landing is going to get messy in the next two weeks - and Dany had that dream about the broken iron throne).

[shanny]

20. I have always assumed Tyrion and Sansa would end up together.

He was always the best man and now she has learned enough to realize it.

[dixiegrrrrl]

39. I can see the argument for tyrion.

Jon IS all about the north.

[shanny]

47. I agree--he is.

He doesn't want to be king, he certainly doesn't want to run stuff; like his "father" (uncle) he doesn't have any ego invested in any of it. He just does what he feels he has to...and, after the demise of the Night King, what would that be?

I do wonder, as a side issue, if Dany flips out (or some other happenstance occurs) and Jon gets treated to a dose of dragonfire, if he would survive it...it would certainly demonstrate his bona fides. And why did he survive being stabbed in the heart? We were given a reason for Lord Beric's multiple returns, but why Jon? Just to bring the wildlings south and win back Winterfell? He certainly didn't do much in the most recent battle...is there something uuuuuge in store?

I wonder if Dany will just end up taking her dragon back to Dragon's Bay, after being unloved in Westeros.

Fortunately, I don't have long to wait.

[Solly Mack]

19. I'd rather Daenerys dies than Jon. Much rather. A-OK with it, actually. And one will die.

Jon is the rightful Targaryen heir, for one. He's also a man of the North - and most importantly (to me), a Stark.

I've never been a big fan of Daenerys. She was suckled on the lies of her nutcase brother. She still clings to those lies. Along the way people (Barristan Selmy, Tyrion (to a small degree), Jon, Varys, even Jorah Mormont) have attempted to temper her embrace of those lies but none had any real success.

Sure. I cheered her against some of her foes. She was the better alternative at the time. Sure, I cheered Ned's refusal to have her murdered. It was the right choice. Of course I like her much better than Cersei. How could I not? She's not the bad guy (yet). She's just not the right ruler. There is a difference

Never cared for the Dothraki. You rape and murder year after year, sooner or later, you get what you deserve. (one hopes)

Sure, from a tactical POV, they were poorly used and senselessly wasted. But from a debts paid POV - they're all caught up now. Mostly.

Viserys got what he deserved, too. He was a chip off the old block.

As for Varys. He has never not - not once - denied his loyalty was to the realm. His actions all for the protection, or what he saw as the protection, of the realm. He'll act accordingly. Always has. Even when I've disagreed with his choices. But I would not call what he does a betrayal - since he holds allegiance to no one person. Other than himself, of course. Morally and ethically wrong, but not a betrayal. He talks of caring for the realm but some of his actions have caused harm and that harm has caused even more harm. But it has led to the final outcome - whatever it is - of (hoping) to rid the realm of a bad ruler.

That said, Varys will die. He, too, is a stranger.

I agree Cersei is playing Daenerys. Prompting her to act in an irrational manner. But that's on Daenerys if she does. You can't control the actions of others but you can control your own.

That Dragon Queen believes her crazy brother's hype and her own. Her destiny. Her purpose. Her right.

When her sitting the throne ain't any of those things.

Jon has always - always - from the beginning of the story been the rightful Targaryen Heir. It's his right. And, if so chosen, his destiny. His purpose. Not hers. Never hers.

And that's all that Daenerys cares about...the throne - and (now) the threat Jon poses to her. He can say whatever she wants him to say and she'll always see him as a threat. Because she knows - he is the rightful heir and she also sees that he is the most loved of the two.

Course, it was stupid to tell Sansa his origins. She's playing the GOT herself. Not the throne for herself (necessarily) - but against Daenerys taking the throne. Sansa is channeling her one-time mentor - Littlefinger - moving pieces around. Not a wise choice on her part. Her action will get people killed (telling Tyrion) - and she'll tell others - betraying her oath to her cousin. But then I've never been a Sansa fan either, so...

Real lives and all that.

The precious few remaining Dothraki will die. The rest of the Unsullied will die. Missandei died. Rhaegal died. Drogon will die.

Strangers in a strange land are dying.

The Wildlings are going home. The dire wolves are going back beyond the (now destroyed) wall. Recall back to when they were found - Ned remarks how long it has been since one has been seen that far beyond the wall. A long, long, long time ago.

Nymeria will either go beyond the wall or die. She may die an heroic death. Taking one for a Stark.

The Night King is dead. Time for the "real" north to go home.

The giants are all dead.

No more myth. With only two predictions left to go. The valonqar and Cersei's fall to a younger, more beautiful....

Only the cares of human. Both the good and the bad - and the good does not always win.

If all the Iron Born were to die, I wouldn't exactly cry.

I hope Arya was not foreshadowing her fate. But she has become a stranger - in many ways.

I don't expect the Hound to survive - but I do expect him to kill his brother. Maybe. Maybe Arya does when she sees the Hound fall.

Jaime dies. Poor Brienne - maybe she will be pregnant.

Sansa was right - the soldiers needed rest and healing. Rashness caused the death of Rhaegal. That's all on his mommy and her aspirations. A better plan could have been made after some time healing up. The dragon was wounded too. He needed rest as well.

Might not can spell brash without rash but they mean completely different things.

Sansa survives. Not exactly my first choice for Starks who survive. I don't wish her harm. I just don't favor her among the rest of the Starks. Living or dead. Well, I hold her above Catelyn Stark. Catelyn did some monumentally stupid things.

Tyrion dies. (maybe.....if not...him and Sansa, perhaps)

Cersei dies.

Daenerys and company win the war but...


So who sits the throne?

Because one or both of the remaining Targaryens will die. For all their time in Westeros, they, too, are strangers...interlopers. Except for Jon - who is also a Stark. Daenerys is the product of two Targaryens.


Like I said - I hope it is Daenerys that dies rather than Jon.

Though Jon can be a self-sacrificing idiot and does not fully embrace his own worth. Maybe on the road to King's Landing he'll gain some much needed perspective. Watch him go beyond the wall to live as a Wildling. Wouldn't that be a turn?

Of course I'm wrong about everything I typed out.

[mr_lebowski]

22. Great Post :)

The thing I've been trying to reckon is ... why doesn't Arya just tell everyone ... 'look I can get in and kill Cersei, so y'all hold back for a bit and attack once she's gone'?

Or has she lost the ability to be 'faceless' at some point that I missed? I remember she at one point basically officially refused to be 'a girl' and reclaimed her name and such, but I forget if she's been faceless after that point, but I'm thinking she has, as I thought she said that in Season 6 and then went all incognito in Season 7 a couple times?

Or does she just not want anyone to be aware of her superpowers, so she's going to let lots of people die instead?

Anyways, of all the things I'm sure will happen, it's that Arya will take out either Cersei, the Mountain, or both ... and the Hound will fight the Mountain.

I don't think Verys or Tyrion are dying, and in fact, I'd not be surprised if Verys ends up on the Iron Throne. Dany I'm 50/50 on living. I feel about the same about her as you do. Jon ending up on the Throne would be unsatisfying but not unexpected.

Tonights episode pissed me off in a lot of ways, esp. with how cavalier Dany was in showing up with a few boats and flying around Kings Landing, knowing that Euron's fleet was there somewhere. She has dragons, she could've recon'd before showing up with the boats.

And after Rhaegon went down, why didn't she just fly around BEHIND the freaking boats and roast those fuckers? Pretty sure the ballistas were only on the bow of the boats, and turning them around would've meant trying to shoot through the sails and masts. You can't turn big sailboats like that about very quickly at all and they were all facing the same direction

She could've f***ed em all up, but nope, just flies away.

[Solly Mack]

23. I think Arya simply refuses to live as others expect her to live.

Last edited Mon May 6, 2019, 03:59 AM - Edit history (1)

She won't marry Gendry. She won't remain at Winterfell under Sansa (if Sansa remains there) - who might decide Arya needs to marry. Where she could be hobbled by tradition and expectations.

She still has a list to finish. She does keep things to herself in many ways.

She might not survive the series.

If she doesn't, I hope Martin's wife makes good on her threat.

I don't get why Daenerys didn't burn the ships either. I thought she might. It was a flinch and Euron knows it was a flinch - that's why he smiled. He looked worried until she flew away.


I'm not 100% certain Tyrion will die but it wouldn't surprise me.

He could go back to Casterly Rock or remain at King's Landing as the Hand. If Cersei loses and all that.

Jaime was mighty offended at the thought of Bronn at Highgarden.

I don't know who will sit the throne but I don't see it being Daenerys.

I can see Jon accepting then abdicating the throne in favor of the last true King's actual son.

Daenerys can call her cousin, Robert Baratheon, the usurper but fact is, he won that throne through battle - just like the Targaryens did years ago.So if winning the war means you sit the throne - Robert Baratheon was the lawful ruler.

The Lannisters hold no claim, legal or otherwise, to the throne. Neither do the Starks.

But the Baratheons do. Actual Baratheons. Not incestuous bastards passed off as Baratheons.

Jon is the rightful Targaryen heir - but the Targaryens lost the throne to Robert Baratheon.

Gendry takes the throne, marries Sansa (if not Lady of Casterly Rock), Jon goes off to be the Warden of the North. Gendry, born and raised in Flea bottom, King's Landing, one of the people, becomes the just ruler Varys said he wanted for the people...for the realm.

But Varys still dies.

If Jon or Daenerys take the throne...I dunno. Daenerys is the type who will kill those she feels slighted her for any reason...and Sansa would be on that list. Daenerys would make a sucky ruler. I can see a few little birds in her future.

If Jon takes it - then he marries Arya. Hey - she said she wasn't a Lady. She never said she wasn't a Queen. Arya named her dire wolf after the warrior-Queen Nymeria of the Rhoynar. So...a circle is a circle and words do carry meaning. Often double-meanings in the GOT.

I don't know how it will end. Do enjoy speculating though.

I'm very fond of Arya Stark but after tonight I've said my goodbyes to her character. And for me, she has been the whole of "A Song of Ice and Fire". Without her, I don't care how it ends. Well, provided Cersei, the Mountain, and that sicko Qyburn all die horrid deaths.

And, she could become Queen. So there is that.

A girl can dream.

[dixiegrrrrl]

40. I had same question about flying behind the boats.

Not too sure how long dany will be able to call herself the mother of ...well, ....now...dragon.

[shanny]

48. IKR?

the dragons are the perfect scouts, to be used to recon possibly dangerous territory--how the F could they not be used / be aware of a rival fleet, lurking?

Between that and the Dothraki cavalry charging straight ahead into the dark (instead of sweeping in from the flanks after the lines are engaged) I have to say military tactics are asinine or non-existent.

[oldtime dfl_er]

21. the arcs

of so many characters are coming to their rightful conclusions. I don't know how it will happen, but Sansa's arc will put her on the Iron Throne in the end.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

24. Any thoughts on the idea

that Dany may be pregnant with Jon's child? I remember her telling Jon that the witch told her she couldn't have children and Jon replied that it wasn't a reliable source.

[Baitball Blogger]

25. I'm betting that Dany is pregnant.

So, Cersei and Dany are fighting for the future. It may also be why she is fighting so fiercely.

[shanny]

49. A future that does not involve broken wheels

just the same old same old. Disappointing!

[hlthe2b]

29. Maybe, but I think they are setting her up to become the "MAD QUEEN"... the hints are there

‘Game Of Thrones’ Won’t Stop Hinting At That Dark Daenerys Theory
Will there be a Mad Queen in Season 8?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/game-of-thrones-season-8-daenerys-theory_n_5ccde395e4b0e4d7573372f8

Game of Thrones” is a cyclical show, as all the constant callbacks of Season 8 prove over and over again, and the idea that Dany becomes the villain, aka the Mad Queen — much like her father, Aerys Targaryen II, the Mad King — has been alive within the fan base for years. -snip-
In Season 8, Episode 3, Khaleesi lost Jorah and a lot of her Dothraki and Unsullied forces to the army of the dead. Even before she lost Missandei and Rhaegal, Episode 4 basically foreshadowed that the “Mad Queen” is on her way, and King’s Landing (along with all the citizens inside) is about to burn.--snip--
Sansa realizes Tyrion is fearful of Dany, causing him to retort: “Every good ruler needs to inspire a bit of fear.” And after hearing about Jon’s true parentage from Tyrion, Varys (Conleth Hill) questions Dany’s “state of mind.” He later tells Tyrion that Jon could be a “solution” if Dany is about to go all Mad Queen and destroy innocent lives.

Tyrion does his best to defend Dany as much as he can, but by the end of the episode, it seems he’s about to blurt out, “I get it, everybody. Chill.”

The Episode 5 preview also seems to add more evidence to the theory, showing Tyrion looking concerned as heck while at Dragonstone.

[PoliticAverse]

26. "Well, that went about as bad as it could have gone."

No it didn't. For some reason Cersei didn't order all those giant crossbows to fire and kill Tyron and Daenerys.

[EarlG]

27. My predictions

Nobody deserves to sit on the Iron Throne. Cersei is too evil. Jon is too dumb. Dany is too desperate for power.

After they all wipe each other out it will be revealed that the Three-Eyed Raven -- aka the Great Other -- is in fact the true existential threat to the realm. The Children of the Forest knew that the land was only safe as long as he stayed trapped in the far north, which is why they created the Night King in the first place -- to prevent the First Men from accidentally releasing him (they were cutting down all the trees and would have gotten to the Three-Eyed Raven's weirwood eventually).

Once the Three-Eyed Raven was able to successfully trick Bran Stark into travelling beyond the Wall and finding him, he took over Bran's body and escaped south. First he manipulated the combined forces of Jon and Dany into defeating the Night King -- his main threat -- now he is manipulating them into destroying each other. Why else insist that Sam give Jon the information about his true parentage?

The farther south he travels, the more dangerous he becomes!

I'm sure none of the above is true but I love to speculate

[Baitball Blogger]

30. I was following your theory, nodding my head as in, "Yeah, I can see that happening."

The only thing that might stand in the way of making it a credible ending is that writers usually drop fresh hints along the way so we all don't get up and throw our flat screens out of the window, yelling, "NO WAY! And I haven't seen anything fresh on those points.

What I did find curious was how Bran was very kind to Theon Greyjoy in the end, almost as if he knew that Theon needed encouragement for his last decision. Bran hasn't shown that kind of emotional connection with anyone else. Not even Arya! So, is Bran back? Or is it the Three-Eyed Raven helping to kill time for Arya to hurry up and hit her mark?

I think the next show has to show stronger hints to let us know where this is going to lead. The next big move is Danys. If she takes Cersei's bait, this is over for Daenarys. She becomes the Mad Queen and even Jon can't save her. The fact that we're all assuming that is the decision she's going to take tells me that it's not going to end that way because good writers love a twist.

[Solly Mack]

41. I like that.

[hlthe2b]

28. Yeah, I hate they killed a dragon; even worse, they killed Missandei, but the shame compounded:

I dont know what’s worse missandei’s death, rhaegal’s death, or the fact that nobody pet ghost:

Not even Jon Snow--knowing he's leaving Ghost forever, fails to lean down to pat him one last time! Senseless!

Link to tweet

[Baitball Blogger]

31. Maybe he's not leaving Ghost forever?

One of my hunches if Daenarys dies, is that Jon will renounce the throne. He would share power, but it's a hollow future for him, otherwise. Then there's the thing of the God of Light. He brought Jon from death to serve some purpose, and I assume that means that he will take his life once that purpose is served. In my gut, I don't think Jon is meant to survive, much like Frodo wasn't allowed to have a long happy life at the end of the Tolkien stories.

[awesomerwb1]

34. Jon not surviving...interesting.

Maybe that's why Kit Harington said his wife was begging him to tell her the ending and then she was mad when he actually did.

[hlthe2b]

42. Leave it to the Internet to "make it right" for Ghost...LOL

Link to tweet

I feel better now.

[awesomerwb1]

32. Couldn't the dragons just

drop bombs of wildfire? What a waste of a dragon.

The Targeryans I believe came up with it so not sure why the writers have decided not to use it. (yet?)

Surely a dragon could fly high enough to be out of range of the scorpion artillery thing and just drop them on soldiers or artillery weapons?

[Baitball Blogger]

33. This hasn't been introduced, yet, if at all.

Not sure that the dragons can do that in the tv series version of GOT.

[awesomerwb1]

35. Which part?

The green fire thingy wildfire has already been used. Which part of what I said hasn't been "introduced yet"?

[Baitball Blogger]

36. Ohhh! You mean that volatile green flammable liquid.

That would make sense, but didn't Cersei blow up all the supplies in the last revenge plot?

[shanny]

50. Don't think so.

Aerys planted that stuff all over King's Landing and intended to burn the whole city (which is why Jaime murdered him). Cersei only set off the stuff under the Sept of Baelor.

[mainstreetonce]

37. Tyrion revealed the baby news

If Cersae says she is carrying Euron's child,Tyreon wouldn't know that.

So if there really is a baby,Euron will know it was conceived before he arrived.
Cersae loses the supporting army.

Davos poisons the Mad Queen.


The rightful heir should be the child of Gendry and Arya ,a boy named Ned

Sansa and Tyreon sit on the throne till Ned is of age.
Arya fights the battles.Jon goes back to his Wildling buddies and maybe finds another Wildling girl

Arya kills the Mountain to save the Hound.

Jaime dies with Cersae.

[GemDigger]

43. "Jaime dies with Cersae"

That sob'n set of twins better die a brutal death or I will climb through my TV.

[hlthe2b]

44. I don't want Jaime to die a brutal death--Cersae sure... If Jaime dies, let it be honorable.

[GemDigger]

45. I was right there with him being an ok guy. -- that far away

from forgiving his assholedness then he pulled this. -- that close to wanting him to live.

[shanny]

51. Arya have a kid? That's not her.

Jaime will kill the Mad Queen, as he did the Mad King. Full circle...and also the prophecy in the books where she dies "at the hand of her younger brother"...he's her younger twin and incidentally he has only one hand. I agree he probably dies with her.

And, yeah, I agree Tyrion talking about Cersei's child that Euron thinks was conceived after Tyrion left King's Landing...could well be a problem for her. Good! I'm all about problems for Cersei. I hope she sees her death coming. Either way, Euron needs to go, not just leave/desert--he's too evil to live, like her.

In other news, the Hound kills the Mountain--the only thing that can make him happy, and we want him to be happy--and then dies. He and Arya share a moment and then she gifts him an easy death.

[MosheFeingold]

46. I think we have not seen the last of the white walkers

Remember the Night King turning the infant's eyes blue? That's new the Night King.

They're going to venture South, unimpeded due to the Army traveling south to deal with Cersei.

[Bradshaw3]

53. Benioff wouldn't answer that question

On Kimmel the other night when asked if we had seen the last of the Night King. I thought that was interesting.

[dixiegrrrrl]

54. Oh god...a sequel series in the future?

they better end this series a hell of alot better than this week's episode, otherwise I wouldn't bother seeing a sequel.

don't think either of the writers even have a dog, either, or they would know better how to treat the direwolves.

[Bradshaw3]

56. I still think it's a great show but ...

I've been kind of disappointed with the plot holes and overall narrative this season, and some of last season. I would think any sequels (they are talking about three) will include the Night King but I don't think any of them would have the impact that GoT has had on me.

And, yeah, as a dog lover, Jon sure gave short shrift to a direwolf that he raised from a pup and that made it all the way to the end with him.