The Walking Dead 3.16 - Welcome to the Tombs (season finale! spoiler alert!)

[NewJeffCT]

I'm hoping for a great end tonight - season 2 ended on a high note with Besides the Dying Fire.

http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/sneak-peek-episode-316-the-walking-dead-welcome-to-the-tombs

[Baitball Blogger]

1. Cupcake Wars comes first!

Can it possibly get better?

[NewJeffCT]

2. well, season 3 of A Game of Thrones premieres

at the same time as The Walking Dead.

[Baitball Blogger]

3. Quick! Get the paddles!

[Brigid]

4. Bring on the zombies!

And give Michonne more to do than just scowl all the damn time.

[NewJeffCT]

7. she's had some good lines the past few episodes

hopefully, it will continue tonight.

[Gore1FL]

5. I've never seen this show

But I find it kind of amusing that episode 3.16 falls on Easter.

[NewJeffCT]

6. here you go

[texanwitch]

8. Cool picture.

Wasn't Jesus sort of a zombie.

[texanwitch]

9. I have been listening to Django Reinhardt all day and watching Misty's puppies on the internet.

I think I am ready for the last episode of the Walking Dead for the season.

Still 30 minutes to go.

[pinboy3niner]

10. I got an advance bootleg copy (one actor chews all the scenery)

[texanwitch]

11. Very funny.

I like the guy.

[Baitball Blogger]

12. He's got Milton!

[texanwitch]

13. Here we go.

The Gov is beating up Milton.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. In this lifetime...you kill or you die.

Or you die and you kill.

[texanwitch]

17. Hell of a motto.

You do in the Gov's world.

[krispos42]

18. That's it... I'm definitely taking The Governor off my holiday card list.

His behavior is socially unacceptable as of late.

[texanwitch]

14. I bet now he had let Andrea kill him when she had the chance.

Milton did try to kill the Gov but the Gov knifed Milton.

I wonder if he is dead.

[Baitball Blogger]

16. Was that my imagination, or did Andrea manage to loosen up the ropes that held her feet down?

[texanwitch]

19. I didn't see that.

Maybe Milton is still alive enough to help her, maybe not.

[texanwitch]

20. About to go into the door.

Nothing so far.

Empty of our guys.

The Gov is looking around in the prison block where our guys were.

A bible was left behind with a verse highlighted.

They are splitting up now looking for our guys.

Milton is still alive but not for long.

Andrea might escape with his help.

Milton asked Andrea to stab him in the head when he dies.

[NewJeffCT]

21. they're hitting Woodbury

I think

[krispos42]

22. They fled the prison... a good idea

Look at it this way... the prison is a durable thing.

The Woodbury army doesn't have the capability to destroy it... it would take tons of explosives to wire the place and demolish it. And they would have to clear out all the walkers first in order to let the engineers plant the explosives and wire them. Assuming they even have a demolition man and the explosives needed to do the job, which I doubt.


So, Rick's crew flees the prison. The Woodbury army takes the prison... now what?

Either have have to permanently occupy the prison, diluting their manpower on garrison duty, or they have to simply leave it be.

Rick's crew can re-occupy it at any time!

[NewJeffCT]

24. oops, not quite

but where are Rick, Carol, Michonne and Daryl?

[krispos42]

28. Good question.

They might be in an ambush position on the road back to Woodbury.

The Woodbury crew panicked and retreated from a few flash-bangs and two people with rifles. Not good performance on their part.

Hmmm... now that I think about it, who threw the flash-bangs and started up the generators?

That might explain where 2 of the people are.

[texanwitch]

26. They can always come back.

Shit Milton is dying.

Andrea is still in the chair.

The Gov's army isn't so brave now.

Flash bangs going off and our guys are still there.

Walkers in the hall way.

The Gov's army is running away.

That looked to easy.

Carl shoot the kid, knew he would.

Glen and Maggie stayed at the prison.

[Baitball Blogger]

23. Oh Shit! We've lost Carl.

[NewJeffCT]

25. ouch - that was cold

surrendering guy - shot in cold blood.

[texanwitch]

27. Carl did what he had to do.

The other kid was going to shoot him.

The kid would have went back and told about our guys.

The Gov is killing his own army now.

I knew his army couldn't take it.

To much soft living.

[Baitball Blogger]

29. I agree that the kid should have dropped the gun.

He was older than Carl and Carl had the right to suspect he was getting played.

[texanwitch]

32. The other kid was a lot bigger and stronger.

He was coming closer and closer.

He should have dropped his rifle but his arms up.

[krispos42]

37. I think the guy was pulling something

He didn't drop the shotgun, but he approached Carl and held the gun out to him, encouraging him to take it.

Sounds fishy, but Carl should have backed up and repeated his demand to drop the gun, rather than just gunning him down.

Carl feels sidelined and is trying to compensate for it.

[Recovered Repug]

67. I think he saw an old man and a kid and thought there was no threat.

He thought wrong.

[WilliamPitt]

71. The Governor tapped that kid in the prison hallway, and sent him ahead

I think the kid was trying something.

[krispos42]

74. He didn't seem particularly worried about being held at gunpoint.

Which generally means that a) he had a trick up his sleeve, such as a concealed gun or throwing knife, or b) he didn't think Carl or Hershel had the guts to pull the trigger, and he would be able to disarm Carl and take him hostage.

[texanwitch]

78. Yep.

Carl did the right thing.

Carl was protecting Hershel and whoever else was with them.

Herschel really couldn't fight back with one leg.

[Baclava]

131. I think Carl did good - dicey situation could have gone either way

go with your gut - don't be on the losing end of a split second decision

just like Rick gunning down the dudes in the bar

[krispos42]

134. I would have taken a step back and repeated my demand.

"DROP THE GUN ON THE GROUND!"

If he still doesn't do that, then I guess you have to shoot.

[Baclava]

136. I could be wrong, but I thought they already asked him to drop it like 3 or 4 times

looks like maybe he could have swung the barrel 6 inches and blew off Carl's head - Carl was right, hesitation gets you killed in the new world

[krispos42]

137. IIRC

They told him to drop it a couple times. Then the guy, instead of dropping his shotgun, sort of moved closer and held out his gun a little and said something like "here, take it". and that's when Carl shot him.

I'm just saying I would have backed up a step and repeated myself before shooting.

the moving closer is what triggered my car that the guy was trying something. like he'd toss the gun at Carl, then grab him and use him as a shield or something

[MissB]

30. Cold.

Think that woman will live?

[Baitball Blogger]

34. Not if the body laying over turns into a zombie first.

She might make a run back to the prison to tell them what's going on.

[Incitatus]

39. For a while, at least

I doubt they dd that just to kill her with a biter before she does something

[krispos42]

45. She made it to the truck n/t

[MissB]

31. Milton just wants to die.

[texanwitch]

35. Someone better come to her rescue soon.

Real soon.

[Baitball Blogger]

33. Anyone see the parallel between the governor and Carl?

Shoot first and ask questions later?

[NewJeffCT]

38. The show is going 5 extra minutes

tonight

[texanwitch]

40. Carl was shaking there.

The other kid was stupid for coming closer and closer.

He should have laid the gun down and put his hands in the air.

He could have had another gun on him.

Carl was protecting himself.

[DebJ]

114. Spot on. Very clear parallel made between Governor's thinking

and Carl's.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

125. maybe Shane is Carl's biological father too.

[Baitball Blogger]

36. Too many commercials!

[texanwitch]

41. Yes.

More commericals then show.

[texanwitch]

42. Good for Carl.

They were under attack.

He was protecting himself and other people.

I liked what he said to his father.

[Baitball Blogger]

44. He's a man now.

[texanwitch]

77. He didn't shoot the kid right away.

He gave the other kid enough time to run away or put down the gun.

Carl is growing up in a tough world.

[WilliamPitt]

43. Carl: "You didn't kill Andrew, and he killed mom." Help?

I don't get it. She died in childbirth.

[Baitball Blogger]

46. Andrew was the prisoner that got away and brought all the

zombies back to overrun the prison. From what I remember.

[WilliamPitt]

49. But Carl killed mom

after she died in childbirth.

[Baitball Blogger]

54. Lorie went into premature labor. The baby was breach so Maggie had

to Caesarian her. She died because there was no way to close her up once she was open. She bled to death.

She was already dead when Carl shot her. He had to do it before she became a zombie.

[WilliamPitt]

56. Gotcha

Don't think I ever got that guy's name. Makes sense.

[krispos42]

69. Right. He ran into a little courtyard with few walkers in there...

...and Rick simply locked him up in there rather than kill him off.

IIRC, he survived and somehow got back into the prison to trigger the alarms.

[texanwitch]

48. Andrew was the guy that let the walkers back into the prison.

He set of the siren that brought in the walkers.

The group was split up, so no help for his Mother.

[WilliamPitt]

50. Oh, OK, I see.

No help = killed. Thanks.

[krispos42]

55. Ah, that's right... thanks n/t

[MattBaggins]

47. Ramirez will kill the gov.

[Baitball Blogger]

51. Or he'll help someone who will.

[texanwitch]

52. Could be.

The Gov. killed almost his whole army.

What is he going to do back at the town.

[MissB]

53. Andrea.

[MissB]

58. Or maybe not.

[texanwitch]

60. What is behind the door now.

Hope Andrea makes it.

Look at the blood.

She is a goner now.

At least they found her.

[charlie and algernon]

57. too many damn commercials

4 minutes commericals
4 minutes show
5 minutes commericals

ugh...


Excellent finale though.

[texanwitch]

63. A bet those commericals are expensive.

Sort to like the superbowl.

[WilliamPitt]

59. Oh man

I knew it.

[MissB]

62. She knows how the safety works.

[Baitball Blogger]

61. Andrea is going to do a Merle exit.

[texanwitch]

64. Goodbye Andrea.

What a sad ending.

[texanwitch]

65. Karen was smart.

She is alive because she didn't have a gun.

[Baitball Blogger]

66. So the Governor lives and Andrea dies.

I guess we owe her an apology.

[texanwitch]

68. She paid the price.

Goodbye Andrea.

[NewJeffCT]

72. sad ending for her

I was expecting her to live.

[Baitball Blogger]

108. Okay, food for thought.

Andrea is a zombie and she's in a room alone with Michonne.

Michonne, who was fond of lugging around dead zombies around with her....

What if Andrea had a last wish?

[krispos42]

70. Artistic note...

...episode 3.1 began with an extreme close-up on a zombie eye. This episode began with an extreme close-up with the Governor's eye.

[Iris]

73. That's right!

Thanks for the reminder (about 3.1!)

[krispos42]

75. Your membername is appropriate

I watched 3.1 last night during the marathon.

[Iris]

76. haha! I didn't even think of that!

awesome!

[MattBaggins]

79. Milton played that that scene really well

Carl is becoming a real dick

[krispos42]

80. I think he sees the older folks weighed down by per-apocolypse morality

...which is now both outdated and dangerous.


Not good.


Glenn and Maggie were able to hold on for as long as they did because they had faith that a) Rick's group was worth protecting, even to the death, and b) Rick's group would move heaven and earth to rescue them.


If Shane's opinion on the search for Carol's child had been followed, Glenn and Maggie would likely have had less loyalty to the group, and might have give up them up far sooner. The Governor might have attacked much sooner, before Rick's group was even aware that Glenn and Maggie were missing.

[texanwitch]

81. Also the Gov is still alive.

He will be back.

Carl is growing up in another world.

[rug]

82. The Governor pulled a Jonestown on that road.

[texanwitch]

83. He was pissed off.

I didn't think his little army could stand up to our guys.

The Gov lost most his combat ready guys in the last few weeks.

He lost about 8 last week.

[exboyfil]

98. Merle's death run made a huge difference

Between that and the ones Michonne took out earlier (and those who died on the assault to recover Glen/Maggie and then Daryl). He kept losing more combat experienced troops than the group. The group traded the absolutely worthless Axel with the very resourceful sniper in the tower on the first assault.

On the other hand is it realistic to think he can wipe over two to three squads of National Guardsman with that core and not be able to deal with Rick's group? That part is still far fetched.

It did not seem you had as many people when the Gov mowed them down than entered the prison, but I don't remember seeing very many shot by the group with the ambush. What happened to the rest?


I was kind of hoping that they would lock the prison behind the assault force and send waves of walkers in with noisemakers. They possibly could shot the locks, but it would take time.

[exboyfil]

99. WHY THE PRISON AND NOT WOODBURY

As the place to set up housekeeping? Was the Gov. planning for winter in his little Fantasyland? If so he should have already had a crop in the ground. How long did all of this take. Do they still have time to fulfill Herschel's dream of tomatoes and soy beans? If not how are they going to feed that mass of people they now have? Most did not look like they were up to foraging. I commented to my daughter that Carl was mad because he is going to have to become a Certified Nursing Assistant.

Hunting is basically a non-starter now, and I have to wonder if the fish are safe (would you want to eat a fish that may have been eating a walker?). Probably great foraging opportunities for berries and other leafy plants, but how many calories are we talking, and you always have to spend a good part of your foraging time watching out for zombies (kind of like trying to forage with poisonous snakes around).

I always viewed the prison as a trap. Sure the double fences are nice but a large herd can still push them over. They are still not secured along the backside. Every move in the prison is a potential trap (what happens if the guy with the keys is taken out). You can't see behind you or into the woods around the front of the prison. A sniper can take pot shots all days,

Woodbury would have been a better place to set up perhaps. I still did not quite understand how they fenced it off though.

[dr.strangelove]

103. The logic behind htis "virus" is impossible to explain but IMO eating fish and game should be fine

They all have it, but it does not activate until death. The infection from a bite or scratch usually causes death. I don;t understand it, but I assume Kirkman would be fine with fish and game. Then again, it is such an amazing show that the biology of it does not have to make sense to me.

[exboyfil]

120. I think the game is pretty much gone

except for animals that can nest in trees. Most game won't be feasting on walkers (with exception of birds and some rodents). If fish are ok (and probably most besides perhaps catfish probably are), I bet that would be the best way to get protein. I doubt very many zombies catch fish. Perhaps the game will get really good at hiding from walkers (they have the numbers but no intelligence). Still it has to be a pain to try to hunt (woods seem like a really bad idea with walkers).

I have heard you can have a complete diet with just potatoes and milk. I wonder if any dairy cows are still around. Here are some numbers:

5-8 lbs potatoes/day and 1 gal of milk a day for an active adult male
An Idaho yield for potatoes is 39,000 lbs/acre - say 30,000 lbs/acre for Georgia. An acre would support 10 people.

1,000 gal/cow/yr. would support 3 people. It should be easy enough to harvest hay and bring back to the compound (until a lurker herd finds them and then what?).

[Baitball Blogger]

109. The older people will plant and maintain crops.

[NewJeffCT]

112. I would think the first task

would be to repair the fences and kill all the walkers inside the fences, and in the prison. You don't know if one of these days the walkers inside another cell block will be able to get out finally.

[Baitball Blogger]

113. We still don't know where they're coming from, do we?

[NewJeffCT]

123. I'm sure at least some

are prisoners from other cell blocks.

[DebJ]

115. I asked the same question. Maybe because they feel safer in the

prison since the Governor is still about somewhere?

[LeftOfSelf-Centered]

116. That's what I thought too...

When they were driving to the prison with the bus I thought they were going to get everybody to move them to Woodbury. It would have made more sense... I can only imagine what they told the people of Woodbury to get them on the bus. "Hi, your governor is a psycho, so come live with us in a prison instead of your cozy little town..."

Of course they don't really know that the governor's legged it so they might have been expecting him back any second.

[NewJeffCT]

84. Interesting ending

big change from the comics, since Andrea is still alive, and just hooked up with Rick there.

Glad to see Tyreeese make it to season 4

I was way off in thinking Hershel dies and Milton makes it.

[Solly Mack]

85. Fewer people died than I thought might die.

Milton was no shocker. Guess he couldn't find that little spark of his essential self upon reanimation. Go figure.

Surprised about Andrea though. I never liked her character during the Green's farm episodes but she was part of the group - until she embraced her delusions (that the Governor was sane being the biggie...that the Governor gave a fuck what she thought being another). What a nice group of people (Rick, the rest) to embrace her fully anyway. Kudos to Andrea for trying to go back. I'm glad they brought her body back.

Wonder where the Guv went? Wonder where he and his 2 sycophants will be holing up? Wonder how long before he shoots them? Will he find himself another Milton? Not shocked at all that he killed his "army". Kinda figured he would once they left the prison before he did.

I think Carl has forgotten what he promised his dying mother. I didn't like Carl prior to Season 3 and now I see conflict on the rise with him in Season 4.

I don't buy the argument that one's morality has to change just because times are different or something awful happens. That's Bush/Cheney type morality. The Governor is a survivor, if surviving is your only goal...his 2 sycophants are survivors. If surviving is the ultimate goal...well, they're survivors. None of them are the kind of person I would want to be but they are survivors. So, something more than just mere survivor is at stake.

Next season should be interesting.

[Hayabusa]

86. Am I the only one here who felt

that the finale fell flat on its face?

[texanwitch]

88. I was expecting a bigger fire fight.

But the Gov's army was pretty sad.

It was noisy.

Between the flash bangs and the walkers, the army had enough.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

90. gotta mull it over a bit more,

but ya, it was nothing compared to previous season finales. The Governors attack on the prison was pathetic, and the defense of the prison was weak. Big missed opportunities.

The end was a bit of stretch with the citizens of woodbury being so trusting and/or desperate, and the prison group being so magnanimous.

I really wanted to see more zombies, more of Michonne in ninja mode and Hershel with the endless ammo supply. Should have been 1.5 hours long.

[Hayabusa]

92. I certainly have to say

that I was expecting a lot more and I didn't regret watching Game of Thrones first at all.

[DebJ]

117. About the prison group being so trusting:

there are large blocks of people who just desperately need to be led by anyone, anywhere,
who only want to follow the leader. Certainly that description would work well for many of those
following the Governor. Governor is gone, now they follow Rick. No thinking required.

[MiddleFingerMom]

87. Not looking at anything yet -- we're just 7 mins into the finale in Tucson..

.
.
.
... but, oh FUCK!!!
.
.
"You kill or you die. Or you die and you kill."
.
.
I hadn't been thinking of that.
.
.
That is one EVIL dude.
.
.
.

[texanwitch]

89. He is the best evil bad guy in tv.

The guy is twisted.

[MrSlayer]

91. Wow. What a show.

Great episode. Andrea finally pays for her idiotic decisions. Milton goes out a hero. The Governor goes off the rails. Carl goes full on badass. Rick finally seems to have shaken his demons and the people of Woodbury get a new lease on life.

The Gov is not going to go quietly. I already can't wait for the next season.

[Hayabusa]

93. Andrea is really sad

because I'm actually a fan of comic!Andrea and I hate what they did to her character this season.

[MrSlayer]

95. I haven't read the comic at all yet.

I'd probably hate the show if I did, I'm that kind of geek. I have friends that do read so I know it's much different. I'll read it after the show has either had its run or it gets to season seven.

As far as Andrea, I always sort of found her overdramatic and somewhat annoying. From her initial appearance shoving the gun in Rick's face to her foolish near assassination of Daryl to her betrayal of Michonne to her refusal to kill the Governor, even knowing what he was, I was so waiting for her death. I blame Dale for this.

There were a few characters I was more happy to see go, that jerkoff Allen that also bought it tonight was one, but I can count them on one hand.

Should be interesting to see where it goes.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

94. What can the governor do now?

No townsfolk, no town, no weapons, no army, no mad scientist, and criminally insane but without the survival skills of someone like Merle. The worst I can see him doing is sniping at one of the prison characters in the first few episodes of season 4.

If I was Shupert or Martinez I'd off him right away, and make up a convincing excuse to get back into the good graces of Woodbury's remaining folk.

[MrSlayer]

96. One of them should have killed him as he was massacring the "army".

Hell, someone should have killed him weeks earlier :cough: ANDREA! :cough: But he owns their asses now. They're scared shitless of Phil. I can see him finding another camp and taking over, I can see him going back to Woodbury and trying to pick up the pieces, I can see next season opening with the three of them dead in the vehicle from opting out.

Don't think he doesn't have a backup plan, a cache of weapons and food he'd been putting together for months or something of the sort.

There is plenty that can happen.

[NewJeffCT]

101. Now that Team Prison

is filled with children and the elderly/infirm, it will be the Governor, Martinez and the other guy that are the hard, experienced soldiers. If the Guv can find a few allies (maybe Randall's gang from Season 2 - were they related to the Governor?) then, they could be the experienced veterans.

[texanwitch]

119. Allen had a chance.

He had his weapon aimed at the Gov and just stood there.

What I want to know is how did Karen make it.

She was standing in front of the group talking back to the Gov.

I would have thought she would have got it first.

[MrSlayer]

139. If you watch it again, the Gov was single shooting.

He wasn't just spraying them. He was going headshot, headshot, headshot, body, body, body. He started to his right and Karen just dropped straight down when he started firing.

Allen may have thought he was going to be spared but I'm glad he wasn't.

[texanwitch]

140. I was hoping a walker would have got Allen when he opened the door.

He was a bad dude.

I don't know how long he would have lasted at the prison.

Darly would have taken him out.

Karen was fast.

[TM99]

97. Yeah, must agree that

we found the ending to be a little blah.

I have read the comics and must agree that I have hated what they did with Andrea in the TV series. Both of us have never been so glad to see a character finally killed off as her.

This seasons was dominated by her story-line to the point where it constantly felt like there was the main show and then there was the Andrea show.

This finale was the same way. I didn't need to see all of the Andrea stuff in locked room with Milton. I wanted to see more of the battle at the prison. I would have liked to have seen what happened to the sole survivor after the Governor's psychopathic rampage. Basically, we wanted more zombies and less 'she is a tragic figure'. Every choice she made was the wrong one. It cost so many their lives.

It will be interesting to see where it goes next season. Carl is definitely changing for the worst.

[NewJeffCT]

100. the people left behind in Woodbury

were the children and the elderly/infirm. So, they're going to have Rick's group, plus a bunch of kids and elderly. Not exactly a good mix - it will sort of be the opposite of this year. The Governor, Martinez and the nameless black guy are the experienced soldiers, while Rick and company are protecting a bunch of innocents and those not able to defend themselves.

On the plus side, if they show them clearing the prison, they still have a chance for the Tyreese vs the gymnasium full of zombies scene from the comics.

[TM99]

102. Yeah, very good point.

It would be nice to see that Tyreese moment from the comics.

[Baclava]

104. they left us with kind of a meh ending, all the build-up, for this?

so, the guv just took a handful of his boys on a road trip, went out for a shake and fries?

He's only got an army of three now. How is he even a threat? Let him ride off into the sunset.

The attack on the prison started off really solid and then ended in a confusing retreat.

If the Governor had simply shot two or three of the people and then frightened the rest back to fight again, I could have bought that, but shooting your whole "army" - that's Rick-scale stupid....seems like the writers took the easy way out, all this massive "tension and drama" for the finale kinda went nowhere.

So now we're left with a busload of meh town rejects. New extras to feed to the walkers?

Hopefully they move beyond the prison, because another season sitting around in a structure, instead of battling it out on the road, isn’t going to cut it......

The Prison = The Farm all over again....with no chance of being over-run - where's the drama?

[NewJeffCT]

105. I figured they would pick up a few extras

to act as Season 4 redshirts, as I had said over the past week. However, I didn't expect an extra 20+ people.

And, I agree that having the Governor gun them all down was a cheap way out. I was thinking he'd kill a few of them, and then frighten them to going back as well.

It would have been better if the initial shooting (the grenade launcher and the 50 cal machine gun) attracted the herd that overran Hershel's farm. Then, when the Guv's troops scrambled to leave the prison, all their vehicles were being swarmed by walkers/biters and caught between Rick's gang and the biters.

Then, maybe having the Governor, Martinez and the other guy escape would have been a more fitting ending.

I was also thinking - why not stay in Woodbury? They have power (even if limited) and no known breaches in the walls. The prison is full of holes and has walkers in the basement...

[Baclava]

106. I said the same thing - hot showers, comfy beds and food in the town...why not just take it over?

oh well, maybe they'll fast forward a few years and Carl will be in charge and have Beth pregnant when we return

Rick and Michonne will be hooked up and Daryl will be getting ready to kill Glenn and take Maggie for himself.

I demand drama!

[NewJeffCT]

107. If they follow at least some of the comics storyline

They'll have some interpersonal drama.

swipe below for comic spoilers:
[font color=white]
In the comics, Carol & Tyreese are an item, until he slips up and cheats on her with Michonne. I'm sure that kind of drama would not play well with Daryl on the show. And, something would need to happen to get Tyreese & Carol together in the first place. (is the show is even comfortable showing a black-white relationship like that in the first place?) [/font]

Plus, I'm sure Carl is going to be a bit different/harder than the Woodbury kids, and that will create some tensions. Imagine some 10 year old boy from Woodbury tosses a ball at Carl to try to play catch, and then Carl pulls a gun on him...

Then, we have the problem of repairing the prison and also finding food. If they can fix the fences and gates, there is certainly room to grow vegetables inside the fences. Not sure how many chickens, goats and cows would be around for eggs and milk, though.

[Baitball Blogger]

111. I wonder if Carl has to face the kin or friends of the boy he killed?

[exboyfil]

122. Absolutely

The purpose of the show is to see how much we can screw up his head. I was only surprised that Carl did not spend some quality time with uncle Merle prior to Merle's death run.

Was that the boy with asthma that the Gov was going to make into a man? If so I am sure the boy's protective mom is going to have issues on how it went down.

[exboyfil]

124. Feral pigs probably the best chance

The rest probably did not do so well. That is what infuriates me about the time on the farm. Those resources combined with a double fence situation like the prison is the best case scenario. A question does remain if one of these huge herds stumbles across the prison, can they clear it to forage or are they permanently trapped. Also how many zombies until you can push the fences down. If one goes down they all will eventually go down. They may want to think about a trench in front of the prison as a collection point followed by a massive killing operation (how??? burning does not seem to work very well you could suspend heavy blocks over the trench using the construction equipment used to dig it and lower the blocks into the trench every so often to smash down the mass of zombies. You could extend the trench far enough away so that the smell is not an issue and follow up with burning later.

[Baitball Blogger]

110. The governor knows all the weak points in Woodbury.

Also, he took a proactive stance to threats, and would go out and meet the danger before it reached it to Woodbury, which is why many of the townsfolk were not practiced in the art of war.

In fact, from the crazy governor's point of view, I understand why he mowed them down. It was his way of relinquishing leadership over a group of people who had become a chore to take care of. That may have been a negative in killing his zombie daughter. He doesn't even have the semblance of civilization to tie him to the place.

Frankly, Rick's strategic move should have been to burn the town down, after collecting all of its weapons.

[charlie and algernon]

118. And we saw how easy Rick's group and Michonne snuck into the town earlier in the season

The prison is much more easy to defend. The Gov's army made it in fairly easy, but that's because Rick's group drew them in. With more weapons, they could've put a heavy machine gun on the towers or have machine gun nests on the lawn.

But following Rick's strategy of drawing the army in, Rick's group could've massacred them in those narrow hallways. Just a few well-placed defensive positions would mow any attacker down.

[exboyfil]

121. I was thinking of locking them in as well

and bring zombies from the other side with noise makers. Don't know how easy it would be to shoot the locks.

[krispos42]

126. Except the Governor gutted his own army.

Woodbury has 73 people to begin with.

The two raids by Rick's group resulted in I believe 5 being killed. Merle killed several at the peace talks, and of course he left the Woodbury roster before that. Milton is dead as well.

So right there he's down to maybe 60 or so.

Then there was one (maybe two) killed at the Governor's first prod of the prison's defenses with the zombie truck raid.

Then he lost a couple of more during the assault.

Then he slaughtered over a dozen of his own recruits after the retreat.

So now he's down to maybe 45 people.

THEN, the older folks and the children that were left behind moved to the prison. That was one busload, a couple of dozen people, perhaps.

So he's got maybe 15 people, including himself, in his army, and that's about it. And what is he going to do when his soldiers find that their parents and children and such have left Woodbury for the prison?

Are the soldiers going to shoot at their own friends and families?

[Baitball Blogger]

127. I think you whittled the numbers down well.

But for the sake of accuracy, they said that 27 people died in the Season finale.

[krispos42]

128. I've heard that.

Andrea, Milton, and I guess 25 people from Woodbury in the raid and the governor's slaughter?

The guy that Carl shot is one, there were a couple in the raid... is the governor killing 22 with his rifle realistic?

Am I missing something? Did more get killed in the raid that I'm unaware of?

[Baitball Blogger]

129. 27 total.

[NewJeffCT]

130. Some math

The walking dead wiki says there were 65 people in Woodbury to start - that included Merle. 21 named and 44 unnamed.

However, let's go with 73 people.
Minus one for Mr. Coleman (the old guy with cancer)
Minus three killed for when Michonne escaped Woodbury (two killed by Michonne, and one by Merle)
Minus five people killed in the first raids on the town by Team Prison
Minus one more for Merle being exiled
That brings us to 63 people.

I think a few people may have left in a panic after that first set of raids (don't recall if they left, or just threatened to leave and the Governor or Andrea convinced them to stay.) I'm pretty sure I remember at least one car rolling out. Let's say four people in the car.

I think one or two people from Team Woodbury may have been killed in the first attack on the prison, but I could be wrong? However, I'll say zero for now.

Merle killed eight more outside of town in his heroic last stand

Now, we're down to 51 people before the second attack on the prison.

27 people were killed in the final episode - Andrea and 26 people from Woodbury.

So, we're now down to (51 less 26) 23 "alive" residents. The Governor, Martinez and the other guy go off on their own, leaving 20 more for Woodbury. I think it's somewhere north of 20 people who were on the bus if I read the reviews correctly, so we have up to four people that are not accounted for if I'm forgetting the people in the car, or the car people did not leave.

I could be wrong in my calculations, though.

[krispos42]

132. And when Merle chased Michonne...

....three people from Woodbury were killed as well, two by Michonne and one by Merle.

[NewJeffCT]

133. Got it

was just editing my post while you typed your reply.

[krispos42]

135. :-) n/t

[Recovered Repug]

143. Can't argue with the losses, but you didn't mention the addition of Tyrese's group.

That's another four - although 2 were killed by the Governor in his meltdown.

[Incitatus]

146. After the massacre, I thought he drove of with only two of his men.

Where are the rest? (Maybe some ran off after the prison retreat and are scattered about in the woods, like the kid Carl shot) It's also strange that the governor didn't return to Woodbury (Where is he?). Rick came across the bodies and then went to Woodbury at night, they returned the next day to the prison with the bus that was part of the wall IIRC. So we can assume Woodbury is now full of walkers.

[texanwitch]

147. The kid in the woods ran away, so maybe more got away also.

I don't think there is much left of Woodbury now.

I would have thought the Gov would have stayed behind the group and kept them going with a threat of killing them.

A few flashbangs and walkers did seem to do the job.

[krispos42]

149. I remember there were two men with him in the pickup truck.

One in the cab and one in the bed.

Did they only take that one truck away from the scene? There were several vehicles in the assault; the Humvee with the machine-gun was disabled at the prison, and the big deuce-and-a-half was left at the scene of the slaughter.

I'll have to re-watch it when the GF gets back from England; she DVRed it.


And they did get back to the prison sometime the next day, which puts the Governor... where?


I bet he went back to his own house, the one he had with his family before the apocalypse. I bet he brought a bottle, and I be he's shitfaced.

[texanwitch]

150. They left in one truck.

Everything else was left behind.

Karen was in the big truck, good choice.

She was high off the ground.

She was hid under her dead son in the field.

She was playing dead.

[texanwitch]

138. The Gov left behind the 50 cal in the prison yard.

The trap that Glen left out gave the truck a flat.

The 50 cal did jam but that can be cleared.

[NewJeffCT]

141. good point

That can be a rather nice defensive weapon. Though, I suspect they'd either have to go back in to Woodbury or else scavenge about for more ammunition for it.

[texanwitch]

142. I am sure the writers will make some ammunition appear in the 4th season.

That would be a awesome weapon to have.

[NewJeffCT]

144. True

even if you don't get a zombie with a head shot to kill it, you can rip it in half and effectively render it nearly helpless - like the bicycle girl in the very first episode.

[texanwitch]

145. It is also on wheels.

Take it anywhere you want.

The writers left it there for a reason.

Maybe there was a lot of amno in the truck.

[texanwitch]

148. Will the Gov become more or less crazy now that he has lost his town.

He was bigshot there, the Gov.

Now he will have to start over somewhere's else.

He did look defeated behind the wheel of the truck after he killed of his army.

[ZombieHorde]

151. It was an awesome end to a great season. nt

[texanwitch]

152. Our guys fought back.

Out numbered but in a hell of a place to fight it out.

Even if the Gov had better fighters, it would have bad for them.

Narrow hallways and walkers, anyone would be scared.

Those flashbangs were awesome.