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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsJames Spader is a perfect example of why male actors do well in the business,
not matter how ugly or out of shape they get. If they have the talent, they'll still get business.
Before
Now
James Spader to play Ultron
http://www.gossipcop.com/james-spader-ultron-avengers-2/
MiddleFingerMom
(25,163 posts).
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Now, if you wanna talk "No matter how OLD you get...yeah.
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Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)I thought he was in his fifties. Hell. I thought he was younger than I was.
I did see him on a show of Boston Legal where he was incredibly bloated, but it didn't seem to hurt him one bit considering the number of nominations he received.
But yes. Age is precisely what I was talking about.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)As important as acting talent is, the writing is just as important. There have been many talented actors in failed movies and television shows because the writing was crappy.
I think I saw a promo for a new television show with Spader in it. If the writing is as good as it was in Boston Legal and The Practice it could be a good show.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)RobinA
(9,884 posts)when I (and he) was younger (I'm about his age), I thought he was the sexiest thing ever. Ever. Then he (and I) got older and I thought about him - Oh Lord, what happened, what a shame. But I can't really complain. I'm always saying that if stars, all stars, would age naturally (or kinda naturally) they'd make it a helluva lot easier on themselves AND us. So I'm handling it about Mr. Spader. He was the sexiest thing ever, and now he isn't young anymore. He's not ugly, he's just older. And if you saw him in Lincoln, he's still got that appeal, if not the looks. Life happens.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)You can't deny talent. I just wish female actors were able to see the same success.
Helen Mirren and Maggie Smith are the two that I can think of that seem to have succeeded. There is just a lot of character that comes with age, and I think that the film industry is missing out by not tapping into it. If they was any interest in writing great roles for women, I'm sure writers would be happy to oblige.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)We write them. Producers insist to directors that they change them because pretty young faces (and boobs) sell tickets.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)garagedoor
(119 posts)His birthdate is Feb. 7, 1960.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)I KNEW he was younger than I was.
nolabear
(41,930 posts)You know how many women actors of a certain age would kill for that chance?
Can't wait to see the new series (name escapes me).
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)from older women.
That's all I'm saying. I think women should have the same opportunity to practice their crafts into their golden years.
nolabear
(41,930 posts)Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)In fact, he's sort of adorable with those glasses. Then again, I'm a sucker for nerds.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)When I saw the show it took me a LONG time to realize it was him. Of course, when I went to search for images on Google, only the best glam shots surfaced.
mockmonkey
(2,805 posts)If you type Boston Legal and James Spader you would get pics of him from the show.
Baitball Blogger
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Seriously, though. I dropped into the show some time after it began and he was portly looking in the episode. In the google photos he looks slimmed down.
mockmonkey
(2,805 posts)When he was on The Office he looked a little slimmer. I think he's more attractive than when he was younger. Maybe part of that is his personality and dry wit.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)dr.strangelove
(4,851 posts)Second, he is in pretty good shape for a 63 year old man. I would hardly call him fat. And though he does not have "leading man looks," and never did, he is far from ugly. He gets his work based on his talent, and he is known as a hard worker and someone good to direct.
Lots of very good looking men have little or no career because they also lack talent.
If the issue is that many men can pull off leading roles for a far longer period of time than women, that I agree with. It seems that men like Harrison Ford can get leading roles even though they have aged quite a bit, while women are out of leading roles by their late 30s. But I think the reason is that many women in the film audience find older men attractive. HArrison Ford, as old as he is, is still seen as attractive by many women in the 30s. I doubt many men in their 30s would find a 60-something or 70-something year old woman attractive. So its about the market that producers are selling films to, not so much the producers or actors themselves.
But I think your choice of Spader was a bad choice to prove this point. He was never good looking IMO, at least not good looking enough to think he got roles based on that.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)I thought he was schmexy when he was younger. Just sayin'.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I mean I can name a quite a few female actresses who seem to have no issue getting work no matter how old, unattractive or out-of-shape they get. The reality if that once you get past the glitz and glam of film, the entire industry runs all-around on looks and sexism unless you're talented enough that they don't matter.
There is truth to the canard that it's hard to get acting jobs after 40 if you're a woman...but it's a flip-side to a reality that it's a lot easier to break into the industry if you're young, pretty and female no matter how talentless you are. (I don't know if people notice, but a vast-majority of the cute, young ingenues with sex-appeal can't act their way out of a paper bag...I can name fewer truly-talented under-30 starlets than over-60 actresses with strong careers. For every Carey Mulligan there are 50 Megan Fox, 50 Kristen Stewart and 3 Diane Keaton. 99% of Mulligan's peers won't be working once their looks fade, they have nothing else to offer; Keaton will be acting until she decides she no longer wants to.) The is a corollary casting of young males hired as eye candy into supporting roles...they also have no careers once their looks fade unless they learn to act or degrade themselves to SyFy movies. (See: Antonio Sabato Jr. and Robert Pattinson)
Male leads, fairly or unfairly, are still expected to carry a film and be the box office draw. Very few of the truly major ground-breaking roles for males go to newcomers to the craft. Unless you're Nic Cage (your uncle is Francis Ford Coppola and you clearly have some sort of blackmail evidence against every casting director in Hollywood), the bar is set a lot higher for male actors looking to break in. I can tell you of three dozen major female roles that were cast when someone saw a pretty face on a street, I've never heard of a leading role for males that was cast in this way.
The bigger problem is that a lot of female roles are written for younger women and the driver of the creation of a majority of these roles for young pretty eye-candy is the inability of Hollywood to make films where men are romantically-involved with appropriately-aged women. I have three dreams as an occasional screenwriter and writer of media criticism:
1.) I want to write a scene that passes the Bechdel test by having two named female characters have a plot-forwarding conversation...about the Bechdel test. (Meta-humor makes me ...so shoot me.)
2.) I want to write a scene in which a Clooneyesque older man tries to pick up a much younger woman and is rebuffed as too old.
2a.) He should perhaps then move on to trying to pick up a woman his own age. (Unsuccessfully or otherwise.)
3.) I want directors and producers to stop changing age-appropriate romantic leads into creepily age-inappropriate ones.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)As to your points:
1) I don't fully understand what you mean by a Bechtel test. Can you explain?
2) I believe that Jack Nicholson has played roles where he loses interest in the younger pick, and settles on the older woman. I did see a great rebuff scene on House of Cards between Kevin Spacey and Kate Mara. (Hard to believe she's Rooney Mara's sister. The two are so different. And, btw, she's a perfect example of why young actresses are boning down to near anorexia. She's 30 but is playing the role of someone who is probably mid twenty or just out of college. And doing it quite convincingly.)
Chan790
(20,176 posts)(It's Bechdel, not Bechtel. I'll edit above.)
or whether they're subject to the gender bias of Hollywood, being written basically as stage props passively involved in their own lives and/or existing only to be the object of attainment for a man.
It consists of a simple test:
1.) It has to have at least two women in it
2.) who talk to each other
3.) about something besides a man.
Sadly, the majority of Hollywood films fail this test.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test
http://bechdeltest.com/
I want to write a scene where two women have a conversation about the Bechdel test...thus fulfilling the requirements of the Bechdel test.
Bucky
(53,928 posts)Whoa, wait... A woman teaching karate? My mind is blown!!
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)She is extremely thin though, I know some women are that small naturally but it still makes me cringe just a little.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)she was talking to her father on a House of Cards episode and the Underwood character was hoovering over her.
I'm sorry, I had trouble determining what part of the body I was looking at to get into the moment.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,308 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)I mean I loved The Critic and his bits on SNL as Tommy Flanagan of Pathological Liars Anonymous (It's Dutch!) but he's really a one-trick pony as an actor...hammy scene-chewing overacted performances.
Also, an IMdB search shows that he's worked consistently in a series of awful projects and bit parts on bigger projects for the last decade...and he currently has a sitcom called Mr. Box Office with Bill Bellamy, Vivica A. Fox, Tim Meadows, Gary Busey and
Rick Fox but I couldn't tell you what channel it's on. (The casting is great but apparently the writing and production values suck.)
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,308 posts)Flaxbee
(13,661 posts)he was a damn fine looking young man.
Pretty in Pink - bad-boy yum:
Stargate - definitely cute:
And the character he played in Boston Legal - Alan Shore - was, while a tad bit portly and buttoned-up, so damn smart and charismatic and liberal he was super attractive.
And he's 53, not 63. He not ugly, my friend. Older, perhaps. Younger than my husband, who's 15 years older than I am.
He's a good actor, too. He excels at playing borderline characters.
Just saw yesterday he's in a new TV crime series called "The Blacklist"
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)I was thinking in terms of Hollywood standards. Anything that doesn't have a Pilate body and a face as smooth as china, generally gets passed over.
Flaxbee
(13,661 posts)he's not waxed and spit-shined to perfection. I don't like the Brad Pitts or James Bomers of the world. Well, I don't particularly find them attractive, they may be perfectly nice people.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)I could be wrong, but I think that is the highest praise that an actor can get.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Stole every scene he was in.
Baitball Blogger
(46,671 posts)But I'll look for him when it get a chance.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Seriously, there has always been work for talented people who do not look like chiseled gods. Philip Seymour Hoffman, Paul Reubens, Danny Devito.
You do have a point about the sadly disposable nature of women's roles. You get to be the hot girlfriend and the next thing you know you are playing grandmothers while Jack Nicholson is sleeping with Michelle Pfeiffer.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Great movie...saw it at the theater when it came out and always watch it on the movie channels when it's on.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)So yes, his acting ability is what keeps him working even though he's no longer the pretty blond-haired boy he once was.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)My husband and I kept asking each other "who is that?" Totally mystified and couldn't place him even as his performance was incredible.
Our jaws about dropped when we discovered it was James Spader.
Such a chameleon. THAT'S why he keeps working. He's a fine actor and honestly, I think he's aged wonderfully.
RobinA
(9,884 posts)I'm thinking through the whole movie, I know that guy, I know I know that guy, who IS he?
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)All he needs to do is speak.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)I forgot about that one! Good movie!
BainsBane
(53,010 posts)I like James Spader. No question there is a double standard for men vs. women in Hollywood though.
Bucky
(53,928 posts)Sometimes shortened to The "Eew, Really?" Rule.