The Walking Dead 4.4 "Indifference" (Spoiler Alert)

[NewJeffCT]

"The supply mission faces hurdles; the situation at the prison worsens."

gee, 7,500 walkers is "facing hurdles"? ya think?

[NewJeffCT]

1. 4 hours till starting time

should be interesting.

[texanwitch]

2. It will be interesting.

There is just three able bodies at the prison. I am typing on my phone, eating fried chicken at Popeyes. I will be home later. The weather here beautiful, blue sky and cool weather. Just had to get out and ride my bike. Tonight's show will be great.

[NewJeffCT]

3. The temps dropped 20 degrees here today

yesterday in CT, it was almost 70. Today, it was almost 50.

[NewJeffCT]

4. apologies for the second trailer

it's small trailer video imposed on a walking dead background.

[texanwitch]

5. Wow, it hard to post on a smart phone.

When Rick and Carol go looking for meds that leaves just Maggie and Carl guarding the prison.

The crew is getting thin.

Good thing Carl is a tough kid, he needs to be.

The town kids are just walker bait.

If I was Rick I would have had everyone combat ready except for the very young and very old.

This is a walker world now.

[NewJeffCT]

6. yes, posting on a phone is tough

If I have to post on my phone, I try to keep it to one sentence.

and, it would be a bad time for the Governor to show up if Rick & Carol are gone.

I have a feeling that Carol is covering for Lizzie.

[texanwitch]

7. I see other people typing like crazy on their smart phones.

I have a larger screen, so it isn't so bad.

I like having a smart phone, should have gotten one sooner.

I think Lizzie is part of it also.

I hope the elderbery tea kicks in fast, the other meds are going to take some time getting back to the prison.

Glen needs to get back on his feet.

[NewJeffCT]

8. maybe Beth

is really a super ninja in disguise?

and, people type faster when they're texting a line or two here & there.

[Brigid]

9. So is it Rick who's been doing the killing?

Or is it both Rick and Carol now? I'm confused.

[NewJeffCT]

16. Rick was imagining Carol doing it

the gas cans were grabbed by Rick after he realized there was no other gas.

[texanwitch]

10. What the hell was that.

Did Carol do it.

Damn.

They lost all their food in cell block D, that isn't good.

Lizzie is still screwed up still about walkers.

One of the knifes was missing.

[NewJeffCT]

11. i think

i'll need to rewatch the beginning again. too much noise at home.

[texanwitch]

12. It went by to fast to catch it.

Carol said she did it in the car talking to Rick.

She said she trying to do the right thing.

I agree with her.

Sounds mean I know.

The two would have turned into walkers and bitten more people.

Carol was trying to save lifes.

[Brigid]

13. Is it just me . . .

Or is there something weird about that couple Rick and Carol found?

[texanwitch]

14. They seem a little sissy about killing walkers to me.

Our crew makes everyone looks sissy.

Rick's crew is just plan tough.

[NewJeffCT]

15. not just you

they're a bit off, I think

[texanwitch]

17. The leg.

One less to worry about.

[NewJeffCT]

18. yes

poor woman. She'd survived for over a year, and now gets it.

[Brigid]

19. So that's who the walkers were munching on?

That was scary.

[texanwitch]

20. Found the stuff but now they have to get back.

Something is going to jump out.

I was right.

Made me jump.

[NewJeffCT]

22. I hope he got the medications

as well as hit bottle

[texanwitch]

25. Me to.

Rick killed those guys in bar in cold blood because he thought they were a threat.

He killed Shane.

Rick has no room to talk.

That is just me.

No Carol don't go.

[Liberal Veteran]

38. And don't forget the jogging dude Rick drove past who was begging for help. -nt

[texanwitch]

46. That's right.

Rick did it twice.

First when they were driving by him.

The second time when the car was stuck in the mud and the guy was running up.

[krispos42]

72. The guys from Philly drew first on Rick and Hershel

The guy behind the bar grabbed for his pistol. Rick out-drew him and shot him, then turned and shot the pisser guy who was bringing up his shotgun. So I have no problem with that.

Shane was trying to kill him, so again, I have no problem with that either.


Rick has so far, I believe, managed to avoid killing a live person in cold blood. Shane, and now Carol, cannot say the same thing.


There were other ways to deal with the sick inmates. Even if it was decided they should be executed, it should have been done by the counsel, which incidentally would have given people a chance to debate other options. The other four members of the executive counsel are all smart, experienced people who might have had another idea about what to do.

Quarantine was an option; it's a prison, after all. And if they turned in quarantine, well then you have spears to deal with the walkers.

[Broken_Hero]

75. Its not that Rick has killed anyone in cold blood that bothers me

and its debatable if he has killed in coldblood, what gets me is that he has killed people by the choices he has made. Him leaving Sophia by the creek killed her, him taking Carl on the search killed Otis, his decision to NOT take out those prisoners in season 3 killed Lori and T-Dog, and fucked his son Carl in the head(by shooting/killing his own mother). Basically, what my point is, is that Rick has fucked up a good number of times, but he gets a pass, and he gives ultimatums to Carol, its a joke.

Rick doesn't have much ground to be "moral" he spent most of season 3 mindfucking himself, and now in season 4 he chooses to be a farmer, and then gets upset when one of the council members makes a decision. Those people were sick, the kid died the day before and fucked a whole cell block, what Carol(or whoever did it) did I don't' hold much judgement, in a fucked up world you have to make fucked up judgements.

[krispos42]

76. A lot of that is the risk a leader in a survival/combat situation takes

Now, the Rick of Season 2 or later would have simply killed both walkers chasing after him and Sophia. Stab stab, let's go home. But in the initial days of the zombie apocalypse, with the enemy's capabilities unknown, the choice to leave Sophia and draw off the walkers... well, it's not the best idea, but it's at least understandable given the circumstances. The world has just changed dramatically, much is unknown, the walkers seem powerful and unstoppable, and he's still recovering from being shot.

Shane killed Otis; you can argue that Otis put himself in a situation to be killed by volunteering to go with Shane, or by shooting Carl in the first place and requiring the medical attention and supplies to fix his error.

I don't recall the exact sequence of events in early season 3, so I can't comment either way on Lori and T-Dog's deaths except that Lori died in childbirth during a zombie uprising, and T-Dog was bitten by a zombie.

Obviously, he's not perfect. Maybe Shane would have been better because Shane was merciless. Or maybe Shane would have been worse because he does not inspire loyalty by the group, and there would have been more defectors and deserters.

Remember that Glenn and Maggie, when captured, took hours before they broke. Hours that gave Rick and his team time to get there and rescue them, then prepare for the Governor's assault. And that Glenn would have died rather than reveal anything about the group. Would Glenn have felt this way if Shane had killed Rick and taken over the group? Would Shane have inspired with that kind of loyalty in Glenn and Maggie? Would Glenn and Maggie aided and abetted the Governor to defeat Shane?



The problem is not necessarily that the two sick people were killed; it's that it was done unilaterally in cold blood with no other options considered. One counsel member does not get to act unilaterally; it's a counsel! There is a process to this sort of decision. Rick did not simply execute the prisoner they took while living at Hershel's farm, and he did not let Shane do it either. There was discussion by the group; people were consulted and options weighed.

[Broken_Hero]

77. I agree with you, on all your points except one

I don't dispute any of the things you bring up and agree with you, but again Carol "IS" in a leadership position, she took it upon herself to do what she thought was right, and at this point we don't know if she acted alone, and what a mindfuck it would be if Hershel/Darrell and the rest of the "Council" agreed with doing that(or at least one other).

My main point still remains, Carol made a leadership decision, gets judged by the Ol Mighty Rick and exiled. I still don't buy the "in cold blood" aspect of taking those two folks out, everyone that has had the cough has that immediate look on their face "Oh fuck I'm dead" much like when folks get bit, same look, and so far the example shown by the infected is, they cough, they die, they come back to fuck shit up. Carol did what most folks would do, take care of it before it gets out of hand, much like Rick has done countless times before when he was in the leadership role.

And to boot, I also forgot about the hitch hiker in season 3 that Rick, Carl, and Michonne ignored, killed that man in cold blood too...no judgement, it was done, because it had to be(at least in their mindset). And Carl killing that kid in season 3 finale...no exile for him, he made a decision to kill a kid who wasn't even infected, surrendering and boom...dead meat. Oh, but Carls a kid, he made a mistake...bur for Carol, oh...exile, and no cake for you!

I honestly don't think Carol killed those two folks, I think it was Carl(at least my big money is on him) it just rubbed me wrong a bit on how judgemental Rick was and exiling Carol after spending at least 1 1/2 years together, and of course Rick making that decision by himself with no council/or other input too, but hey...its okay for Rick!

[krispos42]

79. Carol is part of a council

Presumably, they act after discussion, deliberation, and some sort of vote. That's the impression that I got, at least, and that Carol went "unitary executive" on those two people. Carol never claimed that she was acting on the decision on the council, at least, nor asked for judgement before the council after she admitted she killed those two people.

Even the most severe flu virus leaves most of its victims alive. The Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918-1920 had a rate of between 10 and 20% of those infected, which is a fairly high number.

So there should be a 80 to 90% recovery rate, assuming no insertion of sharp pointy things into the ill people.

The hitchhiker was not in any immediate danger; Rick neither causes his death, nor by any inaction, allowed him to die. Remember, it was Rick that went back for the guy that had his leg impaled on a fence. In that case, by inaction, Rick would have been allowing him to die.

Carl and the guy surrendering... each time I see that, I think that Carl was right to shoot him. The guy was up to something. He was "surrendering", but he was very close to Carl, the gun was still in his hand, and he was leaning in towards Carl. He was saying "okay, okay" but kept holding onto the gun while looking at Carl. I think he was trying something, or else thought that Carl wouldn't shoot him. I bet he thought he could grab Carl and hold him as a hostage.

[Broken_Hero]

80. Disagree about the hitch-hicker completely,

they left that dude alone, on the road with Walkers everywhere, they didnt' stop, ask him questions, their silence and leaving him on the road was a HUGE fuck off and die nod to that hitch-hiker. Do I blame Rick/Michonne for that decision? Nope, not a bit.

As for Carl, nah, he shot that dude in cold blood...cold cold blood! Herschel knew it, but do I blame Carl for that decision, nope, not a bit and I thought Herschel was a bit judgemental in disclosing the shooting to Rick. Which is why I still believe the treatment of Carol is a bit odd. As for your Flu stats and all that, I throw all of that out the window...this is the Walking Dead, Zombies, people die and are re-animated and come back to life and eat your ass, I don't think this flu that's going around is common, but a hyrbrid.

I pose a question, if Rick did in those two people, would you defend him, or judge him as harshly as you have Carol...

[texanwitch]

21. Good sword action.

So he does have a drinking problem.

He is still useful as a medic.

Carol is tough.

[NewJeffCT]

24. Agreed on Carol

but, she's still human in wanting those two to join Team Prison.

[texanwitch]

29. The couple was weak.

Carol was trying to save them maybe to make up for Karen and David.

I hope Carol comes back.

Rick just should have kept his mouth shut, they need Carol.

[Brigid]

23. Carol is stone cold.

Wow.

[NewJeffCT]

27. and now she's gone

forever, or until later this season?

[Brigid]

26. So no more Carol?

[NewJeffCT]

28. that was a surprise

to me. she's one of the originals

[texanwitch]

30. How will Rick handle Carol leaving with the group.

Rick isn't the same leader anymore.

Carol was a tough cookie.

This show was all personal interaction.

[NewJeffCT]

31. good point on Talking Dead

what will Rick say to the prison group? how will Daryl react?

[texanwitch]

33. I was typing while the guy on the show was saying it.

Carol cannot be replaced.

I think Karen and David would have died first and have become a danger.

I like Carol.

I hope she is back.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

51. yeah whats worse?

Tyreese pissed off, or Daryl pissed off. Now they'll both go hunting for her for different reasons.

[Vashta Nerada]

32. Woah!

What did I miss?

I plan on watching the encore at 10 pm central.

[NewJeffCT]

34. Carol was exiled

by Rick

[Vashta Nerada]

41. I'm guessing it's because she kills people with no remorse?

[texanwitch]

44. Carol is thinking it was to protect the group.

She may have.

Both Karen and Dave could have died and turned like the kid did.

Carol is looking out for the group as a whole, not as people in general.

They are living in a tough world.

Get tough or die.

[NewJeffCT]

62. True

but, couldn't they have locked Karen and David away in individual cells until they turned? Maybe for that off chance that they don't die and/or they get medical supplies in time?

[texanwitch]

35. Team Carol or Team Rick.

The message boards are going to go wild.

[Brigid]

37. I'll bet.

Put me down for Team Carol.

[Liberal Veteran]

39. Same here. Team Carol. -nt

[Liberal Veteran]

36. Man. Fuck Rick.

I like Carol.

Damn it!

[texanwitch]

40. The people on the Talking Dead are so much better then last week's group.

Carol was becoming the leader, while Rick was a farmer.

Now Rick wanted to be leader again.

Something had to give.

[Duer 157099]

42. I don't believe Carol

I think she was covering for the lil sociopathic girl. When Carol was talking to her, she says "I'm strong" and you see the body being dragged in Rick's imagination.

Am I the only one?

[Brigid]

45. Hmmm . . .

Maybe.

[NewJeffCT]

47. I think you're right

it was an interesting flashback

[blogslut]

49. Huh

Watching the opening segment on repeat. The writer/director put a lot of effort into that discussion between Carol and the little girl.

Then again, when I first watched that opening, I thought Carol would eventually die within the episode.

I guess we'll find out if she was taking the blame.

[texanwitch]

50. I wonder what will happen if the little girl kills someone.

Then she would say yes just like I killed the other two.

No getting Carol back.

[texanwitch]

57. Major possible spoiler.

Don't read any futher if you don't want to know about Carol.
























I just read on a WD board that Carol will be back because she was still filming more episodes.

That episode 14 was being filmed and she was still there.

I wonder if this is true.

[krispos42]

73. She's an experienced survivor now.

It's likely she'll find another group and work her way into it.

And the Governor is still out there, too, with his handful of minions. They might link up.

[Broken_Hero]

65. I think Carol is covering for someone

but I think she is covering for Carl, I think Carl took those people out and Carol caught him dragging the bodies to be burned and she decided to help him finish it.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

66. either Carl or Lizzie,

I agree. And thats Carol's 'back in' to the group, when its revealed. Gotta remember somebody is feeding rats to the walkers too, that hasn't yet been resolved.

[Broken_Hero]

68. Not sold on Lizzie

she seems to weak to me, but you could be right if she has seen a lot of shit and started developing other personalities to cope with the trauma and so far they have only showed her somewhat crazy/weak side.

I got a 5$ on it being Carl, and 3 on Lizzie....hedging my bets!

[NewJeffCT]

69. They've dropped a few hints on Lizzie, though

saying that she's not weak.

[Brigid]

43. Does anybody else think . . .

That Carol will form a new group, and there will be conflict with the group at the prison?

[NewJeffCT]

48. Not sure

I don't think she's that far gone where she'd attack Rick, Glenn, Maggie, etc.

[Brigid]

53. Oh no, not that.

I meant something like a conflict over resources, like a food supply or something like that.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

55. Carol winding up with Morgan perhaps?

[Brigid]

56. I doubt that.

If Morgan is the guy I'm thinking of, he was pretty wigged out the last time we saw him.

[NewJeffCT]

58. spoiler below

swipe to the right: [font color=white]Lennie James is scheduled to return as Morgan this season[/font]

[Vashta Nerada]

52. I just watched the episode and it was great.

This season has been the best season of the show so far. The character development is awesome. I hated the fact that Rick made Carol leave just when her character was becoming really great for the show. I really hope this isn't the last we see her.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

54. I was kinda of hoping

that 7,500 walkers in the college setting would have been more of factor. This episode reminded me a bit of season two.

[NewJeffCT]

59. yeah

it seemed kind of odd that they had that scene with thousands of walkers, but other than killing maybe a dozen or more breaking free, nothing came out of it.

[RiffRandell]

60. How is Rick going to explain this to the group?

The truth, or that she got killed; I mean you know she's going to show back up at some point.

[NewJeffCT]

61. Rick will tell them the truth

but, maybe not the whole truth.

[NewJeffCT]

63. Ominous name for next week's episode - "Internment"

I wonder which flu victims will survive?

[texanwitch]

64. Just watched last night show and the preview for next week.

I wonder who's legs were sticking out at the end.

I hope it isn't Maggie.

Sort of looks like her legs.

[NewJeffCT]

67. With the Woodbury people

they have a lot of "red shirts" now on the show. You can have an incident with several casualties, but have it not affect the originals.

Why do I have a feeling that person feeding the rats is not sick?

[texanwitch]

70. On people think it is Sasha's legs.

Her brother Ty will freak out if she dies.

[NewJeffCT]

71. well, he already knows that she's sick

and just lost Karen and David, so would losing Sasha be the straw that broke the camel's back?

[texanwitch]

74. Maybe she will be saved with the meds.

I hope so.

[NewJeffCT]

78. well, it would be too convenient

if we're left with just the original prison residents (Rick, Carl, Judith, Hershel, Maggie, Beth, Glenn, Daryl... ), and maybe 1 or 2 from Woodbury, like Tyreese.