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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsI got screwn on a used car purchase
My circumstances did not allow me to finance the vehicle, leaving me only the "as is" roulette game.
Having owned the car for two weeks, I have identified some significant but mostly non-critical issues. However, two issues have caught my attention, and I'm wondering if I have any options.
1. The right rear tire blew out on me during my commute home from work on Sunday. During the test-drive, I noted a "bumping" sound that the dealer assured me was due to low tire pressure. They filled and rotated the tires, but the bumping returned during Sunday's drive, quickly getting worse until.... BOOM! Knowledgeable friends have diagnosed the issue as a broken belt.
2. While changing the tire, I noted significant flaking rust on the significantly degraded rocker panels. I was particularly aware of this because that's one of the things that caused my previous car to fail inspection (necessitating the new car).
I accept that I'm screwn on the issues requiring repair, including the CHECK ENGINE light that came on two days after purchase and the mysterious "bucking" of the engine when I accelerate from 55 to 60 up an incline. Not sure what to make of that. But here's my question:
The dealer inspected the car, slapping a sticker on it that's good until Dec 2014.
My suspicions are bolstered because they are also now selling the vehicle that I traded in, which would have required upward of $2500 in repairs to pass inspection. I'm confident that they effected no repairs because it's listed for $1998. Miraculously, that car also has a miraculous Dec 2014 inspection sticker.
Do I have any recourse? Has this happened to anyone else?
Most of all I'm irritated that the cliche of the crooked used car salesman turned out to be 100% correct in this case.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)NV Whino
(20,886 posts)I suspect there's not much to be done, but they could advise you.
There's also the Better Business Bureau. Probably won't do you much good, but could save someone else.
TexasTowelie
(111,282 posts)An inspection sticker only means that the vehicle passed a minimum number of tests and is no assurance as to the mechanical upkeep of the vehicle beyond the specific items being inspected. That normally means things like do the horns and wipers work, are the lights working and the headlights aimed so that they don't blind oncoming motorists, emissions tests, and pumping the brakes to check if they work along with the brake lights.
As far as your old car being sold for $2,000 that needed repairs, keep in mind that although they wanted to charge you $2,500 for repairs it probably only cost the dealership about $500 to fix the vehicle. They would have avoided the markup for parts and the labor costs would be written off under the salaries that the mechanics earned.
Orrex
(63,083 posts)But I see your point, alas.
I'm not sure about the inspection covering just basic cosmetic safety, either, because that's not what failed me on the previous vehicle. The garage gave me a laundry list of unacceptable deficiencies, including a leaking brake line, leaking oil lines, cracked struts and broken torque mounts. They didn't even mention the headlights or wipers.
I'm going to contact the local inspection authority tomorrow, whatever it's called. I spoke with Pennsylvania's DOT today and they basically couldn't answer any questions beyond how to renew a vehicle registration.
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)One thing you mentioned that stood out to me was the fact that the check engine light came on two days after you bought it. Some of the internal vehicle diagnostics that run require a certain number of intervals. In other words the vehicle has to be driven for a while in order to increment a certain series of acceleration and deceleration intervals in order for the test to complete. If someone goes in and clears all the test data (very easy to do), the check engine light will go out, but will come back on once the tests have run again. You may be able to have a mechanic download your current test data and see if it has been recently cleared. If this is the case (and I suspect it is), that means the dealer cleared the test data so that they could slap an inspection sticker on. In most states, they will check the data and if it's been recently cleared they will not issue you an inspection sticker. If your dealer did this, it's fraud and they could also have their license to issue inspection stickers revoked.
The main thing is you need to stop driving and starting the car so that the test data doesn't increment any more. If your mechanic finds the test data has been cleared, have him print out the sheet that proves this. Alternatively you can buy an OBD-II interface for a laptop and check it yourself. I have one and it comes in quite handy from time to time when the check engine light comes on.
This is the one I have, you may be able to find one locally:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/V1-5-ELM327-OBD-II-OBD2-Auto-Car-CAN-BUS-USB-Diagnostic-Interface-Code-Scanner-/111240891847
Orrex
(63,083 posts)I haven't driven the car since my blowout on Sunday, other than to get it home. I've been using my wife's car and will be taking the apparent lemon to get checked by an actual mechanic tomorrow.
[font color=red]ETA: I should clarify that by "actual" mechanic, I was impugning the dealer who sold it; I didn't mean it to sound like I was dismissing your input.[/font]
Turbineguy
(37,206 posts)but Washington state has a law that is sometimes used to get redress. Something about a product has to do what it's intended to do. Maybe your state has something similar???
Orrex
(63,083 posts)Thanks for the tip!
steve2470
(37,456 posts)Florida does.
http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/5f1ddc32e4edcbc885256cc900599fb4
I would search your state's web pages for something similar.
Orrex
(63,083 posts)I'll check, though. Thanks!
steve2470
(37,456 posts)sold or leased. So, in Florida at least, that law doesn't cover you.
Maybe the info on this web page would be helpful ? http://www.mylemon.com/pennsylvania-used-car-lemon.php
Of course, I know nothing about PA law or this particular attorney/law firm. Caveat emptor. Good luck !
Orrex
(63,083 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)...as a way of keeping them honest.
And local TV investigative units.
Control-Z
(15,681 posts)It is amazing what a crook business will do to stave off bad publicity.
2naSalit
(86,035 posts)a consumer reports kind of feature on any of the local TeeVee news shows? If so, contact them and tell them your story, and get on social media (as mentioned above) like You Tube and go take images of the place where you got the car, and if you decide to talk to the seller, get it all on video. Then go viral, especially if there isn't a state agency that will help you.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)there's a recurring phrase I repeat in my head, "caveat emptor" I hate buying cars.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)You'll send this back to them, & supposedly, they will look into it. Same for the Better Business Bureau.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)For instance in MA this is the law regulating this kind of thing:
http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/business/autos-transportation/lemon-law-used.html
Just google it, with your state of course, and you should be able to find out what you need to know.
JVS
(61,935 posts)LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)You might contact them. At the least they can point you to where you can take your complaint.
Then, for comic relief, watch the 1980 film "Used Cars". One of the funniest movies I've seen.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081698/
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I drove a 1996 Taurus with the Check Engine light on for two years before I traded it in. The Check Engine light on my 1999 Taurus has been for a year now. Usually, it indicates there is a problem with the emission system. In Georgia, we must have a yearly emission system check in order to get a license tag. But if you are over 65 (which I am), and drive your car less than 5,000 miles a year, you are exempt from having to get an emission test. In fact, today I just bought my new tag, and got a waiver for the emission test.
mwooldri
(10,291 posts)That check engine light for a 1996 and newer vehicle means inspection failure. Might be a good idea to take the car to a place like AutoZone and ask them to find out what the codes are. My car threw a few codes when I put regular gas in (it's a VW so premium gas is required). The vehicle threw some other codes so I ended up getting a cheap thing to plug into the OBD plug when the car threw a code. One code I couldn't figure out... but turned out to be a thermostat gone wrong - a $20 part that I can put in myself.
hunter
(38,263 posts)If you are wearing a seatbelt, the turn signals work, you are not blowing smoke, and your registration sticker is current, nobody cares what your car looks like.
My brother drove a Chrysler K-car covered with astro-turf and a naked Barbie doll as a hood ornament for a few years. He didn't abandon it until it needed a new engine to pass smog.
In every aspect but the Astroturf and the Barbie doll it was a piece of shit car.
GoneOffShore
(17,308 posts)Unless you get that taken care of the car will fail it's emission test (well unless you drive the car under 5000 miles between now and next december).
Good luck with the other issues.
Orrex
(63,083 posts)He states conclusively that there's no way that my current vehicle could have passed inspection, and he's going to give me an itemized list of deficiencies that I will present to the dealer. I will offer them an opportunity to make this right, after which I will take the next step, as advised by the mechanic.
State Police enforce inspection issues, so if the dealer is unwilling to work with me, I will return with state police. I admit that I bought the vehicle "as is," the vehicle as offered "as is" with a legitimate inspection which is either an error of gross incompetence or willful fraud. In addition, they also have my previous vehicle on the lot, and they claim that it passed inspection; I'll have the laundry list of that car's deficiencies as well.
Honestly, I have no idea how this will play out, but I'm assuming that I'll be 100% screwed anyway, so anything better than that will be a victory.
I'll keep you posted.
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)Here's my advice if they tell you to go fuck yourself when you present them with your list.
Send them a certified letter explaining your visit, providing them with a copy of your list, and the expectation that you expect them to make it right. If they ignore you in person, chances are they will ignore your letter, but now you have started a paper trail.
The next step is to file a complain with the BBB. Most dealers are listed with the BBB, and even if they aren't the BBB will still help you out. Dealers are generally a little more likely to at least answer a BBB complaint, because they show up on BBB's web site. If they blow you off on this step, the next step is to go to small claims court. By this time you'll have a certified letter and a BBB complaint to show the judge that you attempted to reach resolution with the dealer. This makes it pretty much a slam dunk case and you'll already know what the dealer's answer is. If they don't bother answering this is even better by the time you get to court because it shows the judge they just blew you off.
Orrex
(63,083 posts)I hoped to enlist the services of a local sorcerer and have the dealers turned into some manner of barnyard animal.
Still, in the long run I could probably do both.
Thanks for the tips.