Game of Thrones 4.2 "The Lion and the Rose" (spoilers)

[NewJeffCT]

How do people like their purple as a wedding color?

Synopsis: A who’s who of honored guests turns out for Joffrey and Margaery’s wedding in King’s Landing, but the king’s taste in entertainment rubs many of them the wrong way. Meanwhile, Bronn gives a lesson to an unlikely pupil; Bran’s vision helps map out his journey; Stannis loses patience with Davos; and Ramsay takes a perverse delight in his new pet.

[NobodyHere]

1. I hope we get the reception

I have fears that the episode will end with the wedding itself.

[hlthe2b]

2. I've not missed a single episode and really like GOT, but...

honestly, except for about 8 major players, I get lost with all the cast and I swear I can't understand a thing the actor who plays Bran says (mumbles). I guess I need to enable closed captioning (and see if someone has a line listing of who is who)!

Thanks for the promos though. It does look like the wedding will be interesting. What is it about weddings on that show?--LOL

[NobodyHere]

3. If you get lost with the TV cast...

Good luck if you ever try to read the books.

[hlthe2b]

4. well, if I'd read the books, the tv show cast would certainly be easier...

So, I would argue the opposite would be true as well.

[NewJeffCT]

9. And, if you read the books

most of the characters have more than a line or two here and there - there are extended scenes, flashbacks, dreams, etc.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. The books are really complex, but a very engrossing read.

And I say that as someone who falls asleep every time he tries to read Tolkein.

[TorchTheWitch]

14. at least the books have a listing of the characters in the back of each one

Which is practically a quarter of each book.

[Ron Obvious]

6. There's a Wiki that will help with that

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Portal:TV_Show

This is for the TV show and shouldn't have any spoilers in it if you keep up with the show. Be careful not to get sidetracked into the book Wiki though!

[hlthe2b]

10. thanks.. I'll check it out.

[TorchTheWitch]

17. I had to watch all 3 seasons several times to get everything straight

Every time I re-watch I always catch something I had somehow missed before.

[Vashta Nerada]

5. I've got a feeling the reception will be next week.

It'll be the greatest moment of TV history.

[NewJeffCT]

7. If you read next week's description

it makes me think they'll have the reception this week as well.

SPOILERS BELOW:
[font color=white] In the frenzied aftermath of the royal wedding, Tyrion gets a visit from a loyal subject, but wonders if anyone in his family will help him out of his current predicament. [/font]

[Vashta Nerada]

8. Ooooh. How delicious.

I shall love this night for the next several decades.

[TorchTheWitch]

15. I don't think so - there's only 10 episodes

And I can tell with the trailers that they're cramming a LOT into this season. The previews for this episode as well show the wedding reception.

They already said as well that the wedding takes one entire episode, which is a lot... but only one episode.

[rudolph the red]

42. i think they are doing a good job so far

But they really are compressing a lot of material into each episode. I'd be confused if I hadn't read the books.

[TorchTheWitch]

46. I'm curious at what point this season will end

Last season they only got about half way through the third book, but from the trailer scenes in this one I think they've crammed a lot more of the books into one season.

I'm glad I read them, too, or I'd likely be really confused. I didn't read any of the books until I'd already watched the first three seasons of the show several times... and every time I re-watch I pick up things I totally missed all the other times. This season so much is crammed in though I'd probably be getting confused already if I hadn't read them all while waiting for this season to start. I HAD to find out what happened after the end of last season! LOL!

[rudolph the red]

47. the last couple books kind of plod along and intrduce characters

That don't really seen to go anywhere. The screenwriters have their work cut out for them.

[TorchTheWitch]

50. I think Martin made a mess of books 4 and 5

until you get to the present time in book five and FINALLY move forward again. Cutting the books into two by character and geography rather than time was epically stupid, and I can't for the life of me figure out why his publisher even went with that. Book four in particular had soooo much crap chapters about people and issues no one cares about. Trying to crawl through all those chapters about the Ironborn and the Dornish people drove me nuts.

He also glosses over really important issues that people have been biting their nails over waiting to find out what happens, like Brianne is being hung, and books later you find out she suddenly showed up somewhere looking for Jaime for some reason we still don't know. And there the bit with the dragons being locked up and one on the loose that Daenerys refuses to even mention, yet we really get nothing as to how that all came about. Frankly, all this nonsense with her in Meereen is pretty ridiculous. Why all of a sudden has she become the savior of slave cities in the east when all the time she's been doing everything to take the Iron Throne? For the life of me I can't figure out why she suddenly wants to be Queen of Meereen. Nobody gives a crap about Meereen.

I'm really getting the feeling that he's been so absorbed in this whole world he's envisioned that he's forgotten about the main plots of the books. I mean, really.... the first scene from the first book is about these scary white walker creatures that are going to take over the world but nothing seems to be getting accomplished through FIVE books about them even what the hell they are or what their deal is.

Then of course there's also the mystery of Jon Snow's parentage that he's lagged about for so long hardly anyone even remembers it was a huge interesting point way back when. At this point, there's tons more characters and places yet practically nothing has actually moved forward from the very first book. I'm getting damned tired of reading book after book wanting to find out what the hell HAPPENS with all the issues (and you can't even tell anymore what the major issues even are) yet instead of moving those issues forward introduces more characters and yet more issues that also don't go anywhere and especially some that as soon as he brings them in (like the Ironborn) you already KNOW aren't going to go anywhere. I mean, really.... who didn't know that the whole Ironborn take over of the north was going to fall on its face immediately? Who didn't know that Euron and Victarion going east to Daenarys and swiping her dragons isn't going to work out for them? And just HOW MANY women with the name "Jeyne" can he possibly throw in the mix??? For heaven's sake, there has to be at least five different "Jeyne's" by now. I can see why the show changed Robb's wife's name from "Jeyne" to "Talissa". At this point, there are just WAY too many characters and issues to keep track of and none of them are moving forward. The next book had better start bringing stuff together and moving forward or people will get disillusioned and downright lost among all this STUFF.

Ok, I'll exhale now. LOL!

[NewJeffCT]

70. I agree with what you wrote

The most disappointing thing about A Dance with Dragons, though, was that he left us with a book full of cliffhanger endings. A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords all had neat and relatively tidy endings.

Martin did make a point a few years back about the names being the same & similar - very similar to Medieval history - go through the Stark family history and you have Eddard, Brandon and Benjen Stark as children of Rickard Stark (and, the books have Rickard Karstark...) and Rickard being the son of Edwile Stark. And, going back, there are at least two other Brandon Starks, including Brandon the Builder.

But, if you look back at English royal history, there are a ton of men named Richard, Edward, Henry and William. Heck, didn't a Prince William just get married a few years back - and, starting in 1066, you have William the Conqueror, followed by William II, followed by some Henrys and some Richards and Edwards.

[Lizzie Poppet]

87. Yep. Martin's obviously just milking it at this point.

Lots of authors do that when they have a big success with a series. They start churning out books that don't really do much to advance the overall plot, new characters proliferate (word count fodder...), plot development comes to a crashing halt.. Martin's not as bad about this as, say, David Weber...but the last couple of books are a chore to read, to be sure.

[NewJeffCT]

88. If Martin was milking it

he'd be writing book 11 or 12 of the series now, instead of book 6. He's only put out 2 books in the series since 2000.

[Lizzie Poppet]

89. Just because he's slow doesn't mean he's not milking it.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. How's the pie?

[NewJeffCT]

13. I heard

it was to die for

[dr.strangelove]

18. So good to see

it went great with the wine

[NewJeffCT]

16. Unfortunately

I'm missing the show tonight - will have to catch it later on DVR

[Arkana]

19. Ding Dong, Joffrey's dead.

Fucking finally.

[Solly Mack]

20. That was beautiful!

What a beautiful thing to behold!

[Liberal Veteran]

21. I always cry at weddings. Finally one I could cheer for. -nt

[Solly Mack]

22. Shame a few others didn't drink from the cup.

[TorchTheWitch]

55. people will be dropping like flies throughout this season

Just off the top of my head I'm counting something like seven.

[Solly Mack]

63. I hope the pace is a good one.

I fear they might drag out the trial/privy ending.

[TorchTheWitch]

85. doesn't look like it

Episode 8 is going to be the trial by conflict according to that episode's title. Two more episodes for what comes after which is plenty of time to move things along.

According to the writers things go very fast this season. I've always believed they've been trying to get more caught up to the books anyway. I've also had the feeling that Martin is going to have to do at least one more book than the original 7 book series he had envisioned especially when he intended book 4 and 5 to be only one book. I think there will be at least 8 and possibly one or two more. But there's only 7 tv seasons, so unless they redo a contract for more somehow they'll have to speed things up and cram more stuff into each season from now on. At least the contract for the tv series forces Martin to get busy on the forthcoming books. Supposedly the 6th book is in editing and is supposed to come out next January.

[Baitball Blogger]

23. I think I'm going to decorate my kitchen in the colors of Joffrey's face.

Good make up artistry.

[Solly Mack]

29. They did dead well.

So good.

[Baitball Blogger]

24. So, who poisoned Joffrey?

Was it the court jester?

Why are people saying it's the pie? Didn't other people eat pie without any effects?

[Vashta Nerada]

27. Those of us who read the books know who poisoned him.

[PoliticAverse]

52. We think we do, anyway. n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

53. It was made very apparent in the book

Actually, if you watch the episode again very closely they give a couple of tells on who it was. Keep your eye on the cup... and for a split second see who slightly smiles when Joffrey takes his first sip. Come to think of it, the show made it look much more of a conspiracy than in the book.

This show is really good at really subtle hints that unless you watch very very closely you'd miss. I've re-watched all of the seasons countless times and still see or hear tiny tells that went unnoticed from all the re-watching before.

[B Calm]

62. I think it was who escorted Tyrion's wife out of there just before Joffrey

fell over dead!

[TorchTheWitch]

79. nope

In the book you already know about Dontos being in on the plan for Sansa to escape Kings Landing, but she didn't know exactly when it was going to happen or how. All she knew was that Dontos was going to help her, and she had to follow his instructions and be ready to run at any moment. But Dontos was getting his instructions from someone else that there were tells about last season but that person was also getting their instructions from someone else. There was a conspiracy to help Sansa escape but not much of one about killing Joffrey.

Like I said, you have to watch the cup though the show made it confusing with it traveling about around so many people. And the one person it doesn't go anywhere near is Dontos. The show seems to make you want to wonder if it could have been Tyrion or Sansa or both of them that poisoned Joffrey, but if you think about it neither one of them had any idea but were the ones that were used as patsies for who really did it. And the pointing finger of guilt does fall on them in the books as well as the show, but with Sansa's escape she isn't arrested though her escape does make it appear that she was in on it with Tyrion. Since Sansa didn't know about the poisoned necklace gemstones (which was a hairnet in the book) we know it couldn't have been her. And we know it isn't Tyrion either since he's the one that once again gets falsely accused of something. And in the book we also know that Dontos didn't know about the poisoned gemstones either... he just wants to be in on helping Sansa to escape and follows instructions that he's given. Where would someone like him get poison anyway? He's a drunk and an idiot easily used and discarded for other peoples' ends.

However, the show seems to want to make "whodunnit" more of a conspiracy than it was in the book, which I think is actually more interesting. After all, there are a LOT of people that would have wanted Joffrey dead, and a whodunnit is always fun and so is a big conspiracy. I can also see how the show may want people to wonder if the patsy(s) are in on the conspiracy or not.

[PoliticAverse]

72. I thought the book left open the possibility that the person who gave it away was lying.

I see that people have analyzed the TV episode and in frame by frame analysis they made it quite clear
what happened and who did it.

[Solly Mack]

30. I know!

Not telling.

[rudolph the red]

43. next week's show should provide a good clue,

But it may take a few episodes before it becomes clear.

[TorchTheWitch]

44. it wasn't the pie

It was a stone from Sansa's necklace though she had no idea. In the book it wasn't a necklace though but a hairnet with gemstones that Dontos gave her to wear at the wedding. In the book Sansa figures out who it was that poisoned Joffrey and how. I guess the show went with the necklace instead of the hairnet since the show already established how the women wore their hair, and a hairnet would have looked strange given that.

Man, the kids in the show grow up so fast. Tommen looks like a teenager now rather than a little kid. It took me forever to figure out that's who the young man was sitting next to Cercei at the feast table. It's odd though since in the books he's supposed to be a child that is easily run roughshod over, which will be interesting since he's the next in line for the throne. I guess the show will make him out to be a teenage wimp rather than a little kid.

In the book when Joffrey dies his face turns black which was how they realized he was poisoned rather than just having choked on any food or drink. Apparently, that symptom is known for a symptom of poisoning. I was wondering what the show would make his face in death look like to show he was poisoned... I actually think it was more grotesque - particularly the eyes - than the face turning black as described in the book. It reminded me a lot of the cup bearer that willingly poisoned himself in order to poison Pope Alexander in The Borgias. In The Borgias though it was way more gross, and I think that he actually bleed from the eyes. Gah! Horrible.

In an odd way I'll kind of miss Joffrey... he was such fun to hate.

[Vashta Nerada]

25. That was the greatest ending of an episode in the history of tv.

[NewJeffCT]

28. I have it recorded

wondering how it ended - - spoilers: [font color=white]Did they arrest Tyrion in the end?[/font]

[Vashta Nerada]

32. Yes.

[siligut]

33. Yes. nt

[TorchTheWitch]

54. this is the second time you've mentioned a spoiler is to follow

in your post, but there's nothing there. What am I missing?

[NewJeffCT]

57. you need to highlight the area

either to the right of the text or below it.

[TorchTheWitch]

59. ah HA!

I knew I had to be missing some trick. Thanks!

[distantearlywarning]

26. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!

That was my husband's comments as the credits were rolling.

[Solly Mack]

31. Oddly enough...throughout this episode

Whenever there was a scene with a Lannister the song "The Rains of Castamere" kept coming to mind.

Wouldn't that be delicious irony?

[rudolph the red]

34. in the book, didn't Lady Olenna complain

About having to sit through about 20 renditions of that song during the wedding?

[Vashta Nerada]

35. Yes.

[rudolph the red]

36. lol, she's cranky, but i like her.

[Vashta Nerada]

38. I do too.

[TorchTheWitch]

56. She's fabulous

What a great character! Smart as a whip, too. She's probably the only one that can really go toe to toe with Tywin in cunning.

[NewJeffCT]

61. They've done a great job with her

one of the more memorable characters in the book. The first time I read that Sansa chapter where she was introduced, I was laughing so hard, I had tears in my eyes.

[Solly Mack]

37. Yes. She made a remark about how often it was played.

Hehe.

[blogslut]

39. i'm half way through the last written book.

I stopped reading it over the winter cause I knew I was way ahead of the series and Dance of Dragons is hella long.

I was smiling the whole time during the reception scene. >:}

[Vashta Nerada]

40. Joffrey gives a new meaning to...

[neverforget]

48. Looks like he should be on The Walking Dead

[bravenak]

41. Yay purple wedding!!

I've been waiting for this forever!

[NewJeffCT]

64. I'm waiting for

the trial by combat...

[bravenak]

69. Or,

The walk of shame!!!!! Oooooooh!!

[TorchTheWitch]

81. I figured that would be next season

Who knows though. Knowing myself I'll probably feel sorry for the person. Despite everything I did in the book. Not entirely but I think mostly. I started liking both Jamie and the Hound long before most people did.

I'm never going to find a single redeeming feature about either Roose or Ramsey Bolton though. I actually can't wait until Ramsey gets it, and I'll be thrilled whenever he does.

[bravenak]

82. This season is going to be the best yet.

I liked Cersei from the beginning, i can see why she hated King Bob. But Roose, and ramsey, i think they may be vampires. Not cool one that sparkle, either. I noticed that they had cersei talk to Brienne about Jaime. Loved that.

[TorchTheWitch]

83. I always did rather like Cercei in a lot of ways

Typical of medievil culture women are used as a means to and end whether noble or common. Cercei kind of reminds me of Anne Boleyn in trying to break that mold and have self ambition. And they both don't do well when they do seize control of aspects of their lives.

Both Boltons just disgust me. I never did understand why Robb even wanted someone like Roose Bolton so close to him. The Freys are nasty, but the Boltons are just gross. Ramsey in particular is foul beyond words. I hope he gets it slow and horrible. But if it weren't for him I'd not be feeling so bad for Theon when I never did like him much even when he was with the Starks and despised him when he turned on them.

It will be interesting to see how the show deals with whats coming and how far they go with the story in this season. Unless they really change things from the books I could tell they seem to be going a lot farther this season than I would have expected. I'm already curious if Shae just disappears or if they bring her back for the trial and what comes after with her.

This is kind of weird for me to have to wait for each episode since I never even started watching the series until the first three seasons were already over, so I could watch each episode one right after the the other. I also didn't even know there were books at all until after watching all three of the first seasons, so I was also able to zip right through each book without having to wait. I really hate this waiting on the next show as well as the next book.

[bravenak]

84. I was just saying this last night!

The show is moving so fast i have to wait to see whats going to happen along with all of the no readers. I've been working so hard to not spoil things for people, i waited three years to say anything about the red wedding. It was so hard.
I'm thinking about how they might do the nights watch storyline. It seems to he happening quicker than in the books. I hope they wait to do the ides of march scene.

[TorchTheWitch]

80. I'm guessing that comes near the end

Who knows how much they've crammed into this season though.

[rudolph the red]

45. Tywin was disappointing this episode

Tywin Lannister came across as passive in this episode, seems like he would have responded to the vipers threats a little more directly. He also allowed an obviously drunken Joffery to abuse his son. Just seems out of character.

[TorchTheWitch]

49. Tywin is trying to make nice with the Dornish

and the Tyrells. He needs them both to keep peace. And with Mercella married into the Martell family and their basically having her as a hostage he rather has to make nice with them. He's a lot more put out that it wasn't Doran Martell that came to the wedding since he's the prince, and Oberyn is just the second son... but Oberyn is the dangerous one, and this Tywin also knows. Oberyn coming in Doran's place was the far far bigger insult, but it was also rather a threat, hence Tywin having to keep his cool even more. And, of course, this Oberyn also knows and is enjoying it using every little opportunity to step on Lannister toes a bit.

Tywin doesn't give a rat's butt about Tyrion, which has been pretty clear in past episodes. Soon we'll see just how hostile he is toward this son he always hated. He even said he'd never have accepted him if he could have found a way to put his ancestry on some other man other than him. He considers Tyrion to be a huge slight on his manhood not to mention his ego. He also doesn't realize that part of why he hates him is that Tyrion is the most like him of all his children. But also Tywin doesn't really love any of his children. To him they're merely assets to use for his own self interest. Tyrion constantly throws that in his face though Cercei also did once last season.

Tywin is actually far more of a shit than Joffrey could have ever hoped to be. But Tywin is also controlled, logical and very clever. He's by far the biggest viper of them all.

[rudolph the red]

51. I guess i just wanted too see the regular Tywin

He seemed week when he can be so much more, just found out disappointing. But maybe it is leading to what happens next. He has always been presented as a very powerful man, her just came off as an old tired guy in that episode.

[TorchTheWitch]

58. Actually, this is the first time that he wasn't doing verbal battle

with an underling that I can ever recall. Always before it was someone beneath him or someone he had control over.

[NewJeffCT]

60. Tywin is a crafty politician

beneath the hard exterior - when Joff was wanting to behead everybody, Tywin was the one that said once somebody bent their knee to you (acknowledged your kingship) then you should offer them a hand up afterwards.

[Solly Mack]

65. He didn't rise to the bait (death of children) - which is like him.

And he couldn't shame the King so publicly. He'll do so in council - but not in front of the entire court. He'd embarrass the throne (which he controls) and with Joffrey, it could have gotten him relieved of duty as Hand. Joff wasn't exactly a forgiving fellow. Tywin won't risk his own position.

It's not as if Joffrey's target was someone Tywin thought well off anyway.

He'd protect Tyrion from an outsider but not from one of his own (as Joffrey was - in many ways). But not because he loves Tyrion - but because Tyrion's last name is Lannister. An attack on Tyrion by Joffrey didn't jeopardize Tywin's power. Kidnapping Tyrion by another did.

[NewJeffCT]

66. well said

Tywin is pretty cunning politically. In the end, though, maybe not smart enough.

[Solly Mack]

68. Pride can make a person oblivious to danger.

He discounts Tyrion even while knowing Tyrion is the intelligent child. The child most like him. Tywin knows and it galls him. He would deny it though. I think that adds to his dislike of Tyrion.

Tywin can't see beyond his son's stature. His birth being an insult to all things Lannister. Didn't help that the only person Tywin loved outside himself, his name, his rank, and his holdings died while giving birth to Tyrion.

Tyrion craves Tywin's approval and that's tragic. Course, he will get over that soon.

Tywin has crushed other families - yet fails to see how the Lannisters are killing themselves off with their pride and arrogance. Even while they die at the hands of others, it's Lannister pride and arrogance at the root of it. Tywin is blinded by both and he blinded (and crippled) his children with it. Even Tyrion, though arguably less so and not without internal turmoil at the hypocrisy of it all. Still, Tyrion does have daddy issues and he was never afraid to use his last name as an advantage. He mocked himself and his family - but he never failed to believe in the power of that name.


Until he doesn't.

[CatWoman]

67. .....

http://www.thewrap.com/hbo-game-of-thrones-joffrey-death-review

[NewJeffCT]

71. Purple Wedding Reactions

Not the hundreds of thousands of views like the Red Wedding reaction videos, but there are some out there.

[blogslut]

73. haha

I suppose I should feel bad about so many people being delighted with a death but I don't.

Joffrey was so stupid with his monstrous arrogance. It's one thing to be a vicious tyrant but to be a dumb vicious tyrant helps no one.

[Iggo]

74. He's a fictional character.

Celebrate with great gladness!

[blogslut]

75. Yeah.

I know. It's a made-up story. Maybe I'm just projecting my personal shame at how fkn giddy I was during that whole wedding reception scene. I wore this big honking grin that I couldn't wipe off with a rock.

[NewJeffCT]

86. I think most people that read the book

or watched the show had a similar reaction. It's like the ultimate bully getting the ultimate comeuppance - the boy king in the books was only 13 or 14 at the time of the Purple Wedding, so he was really like that middle school bully - on steroids because he's the king. Still, he's like the high school senior bully on the TV show.

[distantearlywarning]

76. Is it just me

Or does the girl in the 2nd clip in this video look just like Shae? The resemblance is uncanny. I bet she gets told that all the time.

Anyway, as a faithful book reader, I love these GoT video clips taken by "friends in the know". They amuse me greatly, even the really sad Red Wedding ones from last year. The best one I ever saw, though, was one taken at the end of the first season (Ned's demise), and the girl started weeping. I felt terrible for her, she was so heartfelt about it. The books affected me that way too the first time I read them. It's a very powerful story.

[Vashta Nerada]

77. I don't understand why people are filming other people watching tv.

It's...disturbing.

[NewJeffCT]

78. Well, book readers knew what was coming

so, they wanted to see how their friends would react to various events that had a big effect on them when they had read the book years earlier.

[Mike Daniels]

90. Was book Stanis as big of a dick as he is in the show?

Book Stanis always acted like there was a giant stick up his rump but I don't recall him being this much of a general ass to everyone, nor was he a religious fanatic.

Granted he used the red woman as a tool in his quest to be king but I never got the sense that he actually bought into all the mystical mumbo-jumbo. In the show he appears to be more than happy to offer anyone to the Lord of Light for any reason while in the books a good portion of his court/army still followed the Seven.

[TorchTheWitch]

102. In some ways I thought book Stannis was more of an ass

He let Melisandre fry up scads of people in the book, but he didn't seem to actually believe in her red god. He didn't seem to believe in any god or gods really in the book, and I got the impression that he was only using her for what she could do with her blood magic. In the book he's also always described as constantly extremely physically tense always clenching his jaw and grinding his teeth. It also seems like in the book that it was Stannis' idea to kill Renly his own brother, and just uses her to get it done, but in the show it seems a lot more like it's some odd fascination he has with Melisandre (a lot of which is sexual), and it's her that just leads him around by the nose. All in all I think this makes his book character even worse than the character in the show.

Actually, in the books Stannis gets rid of everyone in his army and court that refuse to accept the Lord of Light... remember Melisandre's mass burnings? Not wanting to be a spoiler for others, but also recall what he insisted of a... um... group of people at a... er... certain place in the north in order for them to be allowed to do... ahem... something in particular that was a matter or life or death for that certain group of people.

Melisandre bugs the hell out of me, and I just want to smack her with all the gazillion times she says "for the night is dark and full of terrors". I'd rather have 10 Stannis' if she would just disappear. There's something about her voice, too, that just ravages my nerves like a cheese grater. It's also annoyed the hell out of me that Martin still doesn't give any hints to what she's really all about and why on earth she jumped on Stannis of all people. I've always thought she was as phoney as a three dollar bill, but for what we get no clue of. I think it's obvious that what she does is strictly for her own gain, but for what?

[NewJeffCT]

107. I'm not sure about her, either

but, it was a stunner, to me, in book 5 when she said (spoiler) [font color=white]You know nothing, Jon Snow[/font]

[The Philosopher]

91. Penny

Was she there? I tried looking for her, but they all looked male to me. I hope they're not thinking of leaving her out of the series.

[TorchTheWitch]

92. It looks like the show isn't going to have Penny

Seeing as they did the dwarf jousting so differently and all with men (not to mention no pig or a big dog) it doesn't look like she'll be involved at all in the show. I never thought the character was all that important anyway though I liked her.

[NewJeffCT]

93. I read about that

They said they looked into having the dwarves joust on a big pig and big dog, but the logistics were nearly impossible.

[TorchTheWitch]

95. I figured they wouldn't be able to use a real dog or pig

But I also figured the "show" would be pretty much the same as in the book with it just being a funny jousting match. I rather like it better how they did it in the show as the various kings since it made people so uncomfortable. It also once again showed Joffrey as needing to constantly show that he was the king (as if no one knew that).

[The Philosopher]

94. In the books

wasn't she used as a way of him coming to terms with his identity? I guess that's not a concern on the show, since they didn't disfigure him like in the books.

[TorchTheWitch]

96. actually, I really didn't like much how Martin used the character

It seemed like he was showing that the only person that Tyrion could feel really normal with is another dwarf. Though I like the character, there just didn't seem to be any real point to her being there, but Martin has tons of characters in the book that are unnecessary, and it makes things way too confusing. Like, why have three Kettleblack brothers when only one of them is necessary? And by naming them all with odd names that all started with the same letter it just made things way too confusing.

The show made a lot of changes that I liked a lot better and seemed to make a lot more sense, like Arya being the cup bearer for Tywin rather than Roose Bolton, and the relationship between Tyrion and Shae was an actual love match in the show but not in the books.

[NewJeffCT]

97. I agree on Penny

I don't think she was really necessary.

While I loved the scenes with Tywin and Ayra, I don't think it worked as well overall as Arya with Roose. It seems stupid on her part that she didn't have Tywin killed by Jaqen, or at least have it attempted - in the books, Tywin, Joffrey, Cersei and all those others on the Death List were far off, and she didn't know if it was even possible to have them killed. And, at the time, there was no reason to have Roose Bolton killed.

[TorchTheWitch]

100. Tywin was never on her list

Either in the show or the books. The only Lannisters on her list were Cercei and Joffrey and only because of something they personally did to her or hers. All the people on her list are personal to her. She's only a young girl without the foresight or political sense to put anyone on her list that are more meaningful. Gendry even scolds her for wasting her three deaths on people that as far as he's concerned don't matter and tells her she could have had Jaqen kill people that would have put and end to the war.

[jakeXT]

98. Game of Thrones’ Sophie Turner, aka Sansa Stark, on Joffrey’s Death and Why He’s Like Bieber

The character that gave the biggest sigh of relief was none other than Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner), who’s been subjected to one degradation after another at the hands of the evil bastard. Turner famously compared the character to Justin Bieber—the power-drunk Canadian teen pop star.

“Joffrey, at the beginning of the series, is seen in public as the typical ‘eligible bachelor,’ he's a prince, he's handsome and he's famous in the world of Westeros, as is Justin Bieber in our world,” Turner tells The Daily Beast.

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, who plays Joffrey’s biological father (and uncle), Jaime Lannister, was a little more bullish on the Bieber comparison, but saw some parallels as well.

“Do not give an 18-year-old power, or too much fame or wealth, because it’s very difficult to not get messed up,” says Coster-Waldau. “I don’t want to jump on the [Justin Bieber] bandwagon, but I think it happens even more in that industry where suddenly you have so many adults around you and they’re saying ‘yes’ to everything, and it’s not healthy. It’s not a healthy thing to have too many tongues up your ass.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/15/game-of-thrones-sophie-turner-aka-sansa-stark-on-joffrey-s-death-and-why-he-s-like-bieber.html

[NewJeffCT]

99. good article

thanks for posting the link.

[NewJeffCT]

101. Finally saw the episode last night

Excellent episode - glad to see the ultimate bully in Joffrey go out like such a little wimp.

Olenna Tyrell was excellent, as was Tywin. The dwarf joust was as painful to watch as it was to read. I could almost feel Tyrion's humiliation in the book, and the same on screen. (though, not as much as a certain moment in his trial.)

Glad they brought back Ser Dontos the past two episodes to rescue Sansa. However, he did play a bit more of a part in the books, so his SPOILER: [font color=white]ultimate and sudden death really showed cemented Littlefinger as a major player, in my eyes. Previously, I had seen him more as a suck up to those really in power.[/font]

[TorchTheWitch]

103. Right from the beginning I thought Baelish was going to be trouble

He creeps me out way more than Varys who never did creep me out at all. That speech he gave about chaos being a ladder seriously gave me the creepy crawlies about him. I thought Varys was dead right when he said that Baelish would burn all of Westeros to the ground if he could be king of the ashes.

It also grosses me out how easily he transferred his lust to Sansa from her mother after the red wedding. He always seems so anti-sexual except when he looks at Sansa. It's so apparent to me that even as naive as she is I'm baffled that she can't see it.

[NewJeffCT]

104. I knew he was trouble

but, I thought he was more of a Lannister toady until that moment I mentioned above.

And, I got the impression that Sansa realizes that Littlefinger likes her after the events in book 3.

[TorchTheWitch]

105. Huh, interesting

I thought of Varys being a Lannister toady and Baelish being anyone's toady if the price was right. He reminded me a lot of a sellsword... anyone's toady until he has to do something dangerous to himself so switches sides. He's so much out for his own self I just never thought of him as being anyone's toady... or perhaps everyone's toady.

I don't know, in book 3 I still had the impression that Sansa believed that Baelish liked her more in the way of an uncle and believed that it was still his love for her mother that drove him. It seems she finally gets it in book 5, but she doesn't seem adverse to it which is odd to me because he's just sooooo smarmy and creepy and phoney. Sort of like the creepy perverted relative that all the kids hate it when they come to visit and try to avoid but that the adults never seem to notice.

I've been wondering what goes on with her story line in this season's show since nothing much went on with her after her escaping Kings Landing until pretty far into the later books. I'm also really curious what they're going to do in the show with Shae since the book's character of her relationship with Tyrion was really different and they really changed that in the show. I like how the show made them a love story better though. This is the first time I can ever remember that when a show or movie deviates from a book I end up liking the changes better than what happened in the book. It still bothers me what happens between her and Tyrion in the book... it really changed how I thought of his character.

[NewJeffCT]

106. My guess

Is that Sansa will think she can manipulate Littlefinger using her charm/looks/resemblance to a young Cat, only to find out she's being manipulated & used. "She had potential in the Game of Thrones, but she was still too young..."

[cemaphonic]

108. Funny, I think it's going the other way.

All characters have their blind spots, and I think Sansa is Littlefinger's.