Why??? IMO: mean people suck! (updated)

[In_The_Wind]

Last edited Thu Jul 31, 2014, 02:13 PM - Edit history (1)

Looks like someone put soap in my koi pond.
One dead fish, three unaccounted for thus far.




It seems as if I overreacted. The problem may be too much sun or acid rain or nitrates. Two Koi are still unaccounted for. More rain is on the way.

[mnhtnbb]

1. Why are people such a$$hole$?

I'm sorry for your fish. I love koi ponds.

[In_The_Wind]

2. They survived a harsh summer and a brutal winter.

The pond is new (we built it last summer).

It was so hot last summer that the koi went to the bottom to stay cool. I thought they had died until they surfaced this spring. They were babies last year. This year they are 8 inches long.

Now ... all I can do is watch and wait to see if any of my pets survive.
There are white bubbles all around the fountain and clinging to the sides of the pond.

[antiquie]

3. That is horrid. I am so sorry.

Koi do nothing except provide beauty. Why would anyone do such a terrible thing?

[In_The_Wind]

4. Jealousy. We have something they don't.

We planted Black Lace Elderberry and Wine & Roses Weigela to shade the pond from the summer sun.
The pond plants are thriving. Only time will tell the fate of the other three. If I'm right the others may not make it. I feel so helpless.

[mnhtnbb]

5. Any idea who might have done it? Kids in the neighborhood?

[In_The_Wind]

6. This is a seniors only community. We are all 55+.

It could have been a visitor but I doubt it.

The pond is right outside the window where I have my computer. Nothing was wrong when I went to bed last night. There are street lamps plus the fountain is lit. We also have a solar powered dragonfly floating around.

It took guts/stupidity to poison my pond.

[Xyzse]

7. Oh no... I am so sorry to hear that.

That is just mean. Why the hell would someone do such a thing?

Ugh. I hope the others are alive and well.

[In_The_Wind]

8. I don't have a lot of hope for the 3 remaining koi.

We've collected fresh rainwater in new buckets for the pond. As Mr ITW poured the water in new bubbles appeared (and stayed) on the top of the pond confirming my soap-in-the-water guess.

[Xyzse]

9. Damn...

That really sucks.
I don't even know how to take soap from water.

[In_The_Wind]

10. The only thing we can do is wait for it to dissipate.

And pray for lots of rain to overflow and dilute the mess.

[Chan790]

51. Water-exchange?

If you don't have chlorinated city water, you can try water exchange method. You add fresh water at one end of the pond at a slightly-higher rate of flow (adding from the bottom) than you pump water from the surface on the other end. It won't remove the soap but it will progressively dilute it.

I got this advice from my neighbors. They have a small protected wetland & 300ft² pond (with a full ecosystem including fish) on their property and neighbors who constantly attempt to pollute it because the wetland is subject to US Army Corps of Engineers and CT Dept. of Energy and Environmental Protection conservation which means no permits within 400 yards: no new construction, no additions, no pool installs, nothing that might alter the water. Their neighbors hate it so they try to destroy the pond so that it will be removed from conservation...last summer it was motor oil. The only way to get the motor oil out was skimming and Palmolive. The only way to get the Palmolive out was WX dilution as described above. As you noted, you want to dump as much rain water or pond water as you can find (on an ongoing basis) in as well to maintain ecological balance and algae/microbial presence.

If you contact local parks dept. or conservationists, you can probably get assistance on sourcing green water...also, if there is any water table exposure, this becomes a not-minor criminal issue (if you called the police, it's already a criminal issue)...if we could prove which neighbor (I know which neighbor...I cannot prove which neighbor.) dumped the oil, they'd be looking at 3-5 years of prison, more if the local State's Atty. wanted to pursue it as a terrorist act...because it could have polluted wells, it would be treated as attempting to poison the muni. water supply.

[Aristus]

11. Aw, dammit!

What a horrible thing to do!

[In_The_Wind]

31. Pssst

Wanna come clean my pond?

[Aristus]

33. If it's not too deep...

[In_The_Wind]

36. It's only 3 to 5 feet deep.

I think you can manage it.

Lots and lots of beautiful algae is growing on the sides. The Koi love to nibble on it.

[Aristus]

37. Would the koi be better off with or without the algae?

If they love to nibble on it, that's one thing. But the algae can decrease the available oxygen levels in the water, which could harm or kill the koi.

Anyway, what does a job like that pay?

[Callmecrazy]

39. The algae is their food supply...

Without it ... well you know.


And what a shitty thing to do. If there is a soap film on the water, in may suffocate the fish. I think it would be best to scoop out the koi, drain and refill the pond. A lotta work, I know but it may be the only way to save 'em.
Sorry I_T_W.

[femmocrat]

12. That is so cruel.

I'm so sorry, ITW.

Probably a jealous SOB living nearby.

[In_The_Wind]

26. Maybe I overreacted as Kali's and Wesley's post indicated there may be other problems.

Thanks

[magical thyme]

13. OMG, I am so sorry! Mean people are horrible.

godspeed little fish...

Can you put up a privacy fence around your yard? Put up game cameras to see if they come back, so you can id them?

[In_The_Wind]

27. Can't do a fence.

Also can't afford a camera.

[clarice]

14. That really sucks...I'm sorry to hear it. nt

[In_The_Wind]

30. It was a surprise. They looked fine yesterday.

We've had lots of rain recently. The Koi were swimming normally on the top after each storm.

They were becoming tame. I could call 'em to the surface when I wanted to feed 'em. The next step would have been hand feeding.

[clarice]

50. Do you have any idea who could have done such a thing? nt

[Raffi Ella]

15. wow, I am so sorry, ITW.

Good lord, I would be so upset if that happened to me. Is there a HOA you can report it to? and maybe the police since they killed your fish.

[In_The_Wind]

29. We did report it to the office this morning.

Of course they said nothing can be done since we don't actually know what happened.
I didn't expect them to be able to help us but I did want them to know about it.

Lots of the seniors living here have stopped to enjoy our work. They think it's great.

[Raffi Ella]

54. I'm sure they do-

I don't have a pond lest I attract cottonmouths to my yard! But I think they're beautiful. I'm glad to read that you don't think anything sinister went on- pond biology problems are understandable, killing fish by poisoning is not.

I'm sorry you lost your fish, but it sounds like there is a plan underway to get the issue resolved. Good Luck with it.

[Call Me Wesley]

16. Here's some immediate things you can do:

Make a 20% water change. You can use tap water if it's not chlorinated - rain water might be too acidic, which will add to the problem. Put a handful of baking soda in it (will balance out the pH,) and, if you have, some sea salt. NOT table salt.

If you have an air pump, aerate your pond. There's lack of oxygen already. Stop feeding immediately, if you do. If the pond is in full sun, try to shade it.

It might not be soap, it might be organic matter. Do you have a water test kit? And do you have a filter for the pond? Having Kois without a filtration system is almost impossible unless you have a small lake.

Hope this helps. The water change you can do daily until the problem vanishes, and then I'd say once or twice a week, depending on the water volume: The less, the more often.

Edit to add: If it's mainly rainwater you use, always use baking soda. You can't overdo it; an handful per bucket is okay. It will balance the pH at 7.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. good advice, CMW

nice to see you

[Call Me Wesley]

21. Nice to see you, too!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. and how are Ginger and Heidi these days? please send them both my regards.

[Call Me Wesley]

23. We're all fine. :)

I give Ginger an extra scratching from you.

[In_The_Wind]

24. Can't use tap water due to chlorine. The pond is aerated by two sources.

Unfortunately it's in full sun. We've planted shrubs for shade but they aren't big enough yet.
Last summer the only thing I could do was place a net over the pond for shade. The owner of this property wouldn't allow me to build anything over the pond. I'll pick up a test kit.

I do have sea salt and baking soda. So I can throw a handful of soda in. The pond is over 1,000 so changing the water isn't something I can do.

On the plus side ... the other 2 (edit cause 1 more Koi gave up today ) Koi haven't surfaced (although they don't always come up if they are dead) and wild birds are drinking out of the pond. Maybe the problem wasn't soap.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[Call Me Wesley]

32. If the 1,000 refers to gallons, here's what you should do:

Drain out some water, don't just pour new water in it. For 1,000 gallons, this would be 200 gallons. Then add fresh 200 gallons with baking soda and sea salt (a handful, not more, but it tends to boost their immune system.) This you should do.

Can you put umbrellas up, anything that provides shade and is in accordance with the property owner and looks like normal patio furniture?

Kois are pretty hardy fish, essentially, and I think the problem you have has build up over some time and resulted in a deadly crack-down of the biological balance, given there's wasn't a jerk pouring soap into it - but the resolutions are the same. But reading your posts, I think it's because of having a fairly new pond with the eco-system not yet in charge, and if you don't have a filtration system and rely on rain water, that doesn't help, I'm afraid. Rain is acidic, having a pH around 5.0, where Kois need to have pH 7.0 - 7.5. They also need a certain hardness of the water, which will buffer the pH and keep to maintain it.

Full sun is to absolutely avoid. Not only because Kois sunburn lightly, but because it will heat up the water, making it prone for crazy pH-changes and rising nitrate levels (which I think has a part in here, too.)

If the chlorine in the tap water is minimal, you can do a partial water change. Fill a few buckets, drop in some baking soda until you have some on the bottom not resolving anymore and pour it in from a height so it aerates the water on itself. You can also sprinkle the baking soda directly over the pond.

How warm is the water? It should never exceed 77° F; this is hard on the Kois and hard on the water itself.

Do at least the water changes you can do. I'm a bit concerned about the other Kois not surfacing. Oxygen at the bottom is the weakest.

I'm crossing my thumbs, because Kois should be happy:

[Call Me Wesley]

34. Tests are cheap, but essential:

http://www.amazon.com/API-Pondcare-Master-Liquid-Test/dp/B0002DJNN0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406752981&sr=8-1&keywords=pond+water+tests

These are the essentials you would want to test for. Nitrate test isn't included, but if it shows Nitrite levels, you also have Nitrate, which is a killer.

And here's a great forum: http://www.koivet.com

[In_The_Wind]

35. I'll start testing asap. We have 5 days of rain ahead.

Last year I provided shade by supporting a mesh net across the pond. As per a letter from management last year that is the best I can manage until the Weigela and Elderberry we planted last fall are bigger. They already provide shade from the late afternoon sun.

When I added the aerators this year I weighted them to the bottom of the pond inside mesh bags. So, they have air.

I'll be sure to check for Nitrates.

Thanks CMW.

[Call Me Wesley]

38. Start testing when it's back to 'normal.'

Now you'd just freak out, because your results won't be good, so scrap it. Please put the baking soda and some sea salt into it and try whatever water you can change. If you have sun, fill buckets with tap water and put them in the sun. The chloride will be neutralized to a point you can use the water.

You have some lime stone powder somewhere, maybe for use in the garden? Dilute a handful of this also and pour it in. This is a pH-buffer.

Good luck!

I had Kois in a 20,000+ gallon pond for years and guess did run into every obstacle. They grew to 21", weighing 50 pounds. The pond got too small. Now they're in a natural 2 square mile pond and are much happier swimming around.

[RiffRandell]

17. That's horrible!

I am so sorry!

[In_The_Wind]

28. Koi number 2 crossed over under the Rainbow Bridge.

[Kali]

18. it might not be anything nefarious

https://www.google.com/search?q=bubbles+in+koi+pond&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. I love Google, don't you?

[In_The_Wind]

25. I did check out the page link you provided.

Obviously ... this pond isn't going to be as easy as my last one.

[Crewleader]

40. so sorry you lost your fish In_The_Wind

[In_The_Wind]

44. I hope the dawn brings happy news today. Two live Koi would bring a smile.

If they don't make it I may have to settle for a lilly pond.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

41. Ohhhh, I'm so sorry, ITW

I'm glad, though, that it doesn't look like it was some cruel scumbag.

[In_The_Wind]

49. They all looked so happy on Tuesday afternoon.

One of the remaining Koi has a orange bullseye on his head. When I purchased him, he had a mangled tail. He was beautiful a few days ago. I hope the remaining two survive.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

58. me too, I hope they make it.

Sweet little fishies! how are they now? That was amazing advice you got on the thread. Coolest people on DU.

[ailsagirl]

42. I'm so sorry to hear that

For you and your family:

For the nut-job who did it:

[mokawanis]

43. What a horrible thing to do

Just pointless and cruel. Sorry you have to go through this.

[steve2470]

46. that sucks :/

[In_The_Wind]

47. It sucks that two Koi died no matter the cause.

It looks like I may have overacted. But last summer someone stole my Tom-Tom out of my car while it was parked in my driveway here. Some days I just want to hide in my bedroom and not come out until things get better.

[steve2470]

48. hugs :/ I can relate nt

[magical thyme]

55. ((hug))

I jump to conclusions these days too. I have had deliberate attempts made on both my horses' and my dogs' lives by 2 different neighbors. In my case I know who, and in the case of the dogs the first attempt was right in front of me.

You just don't recover from such things easily. The neighbors who tried to kill my dogs lost their favorite one in the road, so they have learned the hard way. I suspect the neighbor across the street has had a bite in the butt from karma as well, because he minds his own business now too.

[In_The_Wind]

57. Karma usually comes back to bite one in the butt eventually.

I'm sorry that your neighbors are so spiteful. Trying to hurt you by harming a helpless creature is the worst form of behavior. If your neighbors have something to say to you they should come to the point.

I felt totally safe here until my unlocked car was robbed last summer. Mr ITW is friendly toward everyone. Me, not so much. Having said that, we aren't at war with anyone here. They wave in passing and so do we.

[3catwoman3]

52. Even if this turns out to be a natural phenomenon...

...everyone's comments about mean-spirited people are right on target.

I hope your remaining koi survive. I lived in Japan for 2 years, and koi always bring back wonderful memories of that time.

[In_The_Wind]

53. Sitting next to the Koi pond is one of the small pleasures of my life.

I'm always happier near any body of water.

We've stopped feeding them temporally to avoid adding any more pollutants. I'm aging water from my sink to add.

My last Koi pond was a large swimming pool. Other than lifting out dead leaves and animals it truly was maintenance free.

The Water Lilly and an Iris look healthy. Birds are still drinking from the pond. Time will tell.

Thanks for stopping by.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

56. If we are playing the odds here

I am going with natural phenomenon. This happens naturally quite often. Unless InThewind has some reason to suspect otherwise.

[Art_from_Ark]

59. Natural phenomenon-- like spawning, perhaps?

[In_The_Wind]

60. omg! That looks like what's going on in my pond.

One of the missing Koi looks like this one ... except the spot on his head is orange.

[Art_from_Ark]

61. Sometimes spawning takes so much energy from a fish

that one or more of the spawners may die soon afterward.
That sometimes happened with my goldfish and bettas.

[In_The_Wind]

62. I haven't removed anything from the pond except the deceased Koi.

My last pond looked like I had imported babies.
Maybe there will be good news to go with the bad.