Where do DUsers stand, on the Oxford Comma?

[ashling]

#t=74

#t=21

[HERVEPA]

1. Absolutely necessary

Greatly aids clarity.

Anti Oxford-comma folks are worse that Libertarians!

[Avalux]

4. Now you've done it!

How dare you say I'm worse than a libertarian!

[hlthe2b]

2. Honest to Goddess--is this REALLY a controversy?

I have always used it... If, in the example given, I wanted to denote the need to bring Bob (who is a DJ) and another item or person, I'd merely use a dash to offset "a DJ" from Bob.

Is it really necessary to be that complicated?

[Avalux]

3. I'm a medical writer. I don't use the oxford comma.

A conjunction is adequate IMHO, adding a comma is overkill. That's where I stand!

[Laffy Kat]

18. OTOH, I was a medical transcriptionist for years.

During my certification training, my instructors insisted its use for clarity, always. Go figure.

[WinkyDink]

46. It is not "overkill." It is consistency of meaning.

[Wounded Bear]

5. I'm fer it, not agin it...

[Enthusiast]

59. Me, too.

[onehandle]

6. For. In some lists, the last two things can seem like a 'combo' in certain contexts.

The Oxford Comma provides clarity, just in case.

[Ron Obvious]

7. As a programmer, I'm totally for it.

It clearly shows that the last item in the list carries equal weight to each item before it, and is not equal to the entirety of the preceding list.

Next, you should hear me go on about punctuation outside of quote marks (as God intended) and the hideous ambiguity of "not all that glitters is gold", and "I could care less". <-- punctuation outside the quote.

[WinkyDink]

47. Ahem. "Not all that glitters is gold" is correct; it is "All that glitters is not gold" that is not.

[Ron Obvious]

51. Duh!

You are, of course, correct.

[WinkyDink]

54. Insufferable retired English teacher here. :-)

[Sentath]

63. And here I thought he was quoting song lyrics

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/smashmouth/allstar.html

[NutmegYankee]

8. I always use the Oxford Comma.

I'm surprised there is even a debate.

[cyberswede]

12. Me too. nt

[UTUSN]

9. "Prescriptive" vs "Descriptive" grammar.

My first indoctrination in grammar was to use it. Decades later, majoring uselessly in English Literature and History, I thought enrolling in a total, university Grammar class was going to make me an indubitable scholar, diagramming and tossing off Parts with glee.

Imagine my surprise (this was in the '70s) when this class turned out to be some abstract mumbo jumbo about "Descriptive Grammar" and "Deep Meaning" (of what was being communicated via language). We were told that Prescriptive Grammar, with rules of no-prepositions-at-end and such were old hat. More recently there was some article saying that rules like no-prepositions-end and no-splitting-infinitives were archaic junk based on the rules of Latin, which English did not derive from.

Anyway, even the guideline in the 2nd video of the o.p. about "consistency throughout the document" would seem to be rigid in itself. Clarity AND consistency? Or just clarity?

[ashling]

10. As someone who assigns lots of critical thinking assignments

I also have to read & grade lots of critical thinking assignments

my observation is that consistency and clarity go hand in hand in regard to writing as well as citation.

[UTUSN]

13. Just saying that making it a dictum that if you use it you need to use it

throughout the document is almost as Old School as the old grammar rules. These appear to be anything-goes days and "enforcement" gives an image of a schoolteacher rapping knuckles with a ruler. I guess that workplace rules can be made by whoever controls the paycheck.

[RebelOne]

11. No comma. I was a copy editor for 13 years

and the editors and I always adhered to the AP Style Book.

[WinkyDink]

48. Newspapers are not the standard. For one thing, they are "de-capitalizing" arbitrarily. E.g., they

will use "pope" while writing "Dalai Lama."

E.g., they will write "secretary of the Navy," though the title is a specific proper noun.

[orleans]

58. but what if you're writing:

"i love coffee, baked beans, candy bars, coke and chocolate syrup"

the elimination of the comma lets readers know i love coke and chocolate syrup together.

the added comma for "coke," would tell readers i love coke. oh and i also love chocolate syrup

[mahatmakanejeeves]

14. I use it, but when my articles get edited by the higher-ups,

it gets removed.

My favorite example from Eats, Shoots & Leaves:

"I would like to thank my parents, Mother Teresa and the Pope."

[eppur_se_muova]

25. I was going to post that (counter-)example if no else had ...

kind of seals the argument for me.

[cwydro]

28. Lol!

[Vattel]

56. That is so funny. Thx.

[Coventina]

15. Who gives a fuck?

Please tell me that was the response you were looking for.....

[Bucky]

36. I give a fuck. I give many fucks.

Sadly, no one's receiving.

[WinkyDink]

49. And your ellipsis is because...?

[Coventina]

60. Trying to encourage the OP to respond to my poor attempt at humor.

After all, Vampire Weekend is included in the OP!

[frogmarch]

16. I like it, but

I don't often use it these days. I miss using it.

[1step]

17. "Lower taxes will save the economy?" or "Lower taxes will save the economy"?

What, in your opinion, is the proper way to question that bullshit assertion?

[nirvana555]

19. I've always been for it and just found out this year that it had a name. N/T

[Bucky]

35. I've always thought that anything between the quotey marks should be part of the quote.

So if you're quoting someone who questions the assertion, use the former. {?"}

If you're questioning someone who quotes the assertion, use the latter. {"?}

That said, there is the rule (which I dislike) that if the quote is part of an end-punctuation (comma, period, or Q-mark) then you put it all inside the quotey marks. Eg, Fred said, "to be or not to be," but he wasn't playing Hamlet.

If you're gonna use a comma there, it's clearly illogical to place it inside the quoteys, but it's required by all the style books (at least in the US). I feel the same way about parentheses as I do about quotations, but no one's listening to me.

[ashling]

41. Is it farther to New York

or by bus?

[reACTIONary]

20. The Chicago Manual of Style . ..

Recomends it, so I'm for it.

[ashling]

21. I use Chicago in my government classes

[reACTIONary]

22. +10 (nt)

[MrsMatt]

23. For it

except in my work, the style and usage guide calls for AP standards.

So, I'm only allowed in personal writing, not professional.

Barbarians.

[ashling]

24. Barbarians.

[Hoyt]

26. Use it sometimes, but not always. Just depends on how I feel.

In some documents with lots of such lists, I might do it both ways to please both sides. Plus, I can claim I made a mistake if I run into an OCD grammar nut who can't read for content/ideas.

I do agree it's necessary for clarity at times.

[cwydro]

27. I use it. Always have.

I write reports for a living.

It's considered "best practices" by my company.

[magical thyme]

29. whichever works best. Not my bugaboo these days.

I'm confused by people, who insert commas in totally wrong ways. And people, often from the same group I just mentioned who leave them off the second half of a parenthetical statement.

[Lars39]

30. I was taught to use the Oxford Comma for clarity...

[IMG][/IMG]

[Bucky]

32. The capitalization errors there make that cartoonist the Mark Fuhrman of Grammar Nazis

You know, some times I just blow myself away with my own insights.

[Bucky]

31. For the record, the comma in your subject line is NOT an example of the Oxford comma

Anyway, I've always called it the Bucky comma cause I've been using it ever since Middle School.

So screw Oxford

[rug]

38. +1

[WinkyDink]

50. Must be a "Bucky Lack of End Punctuation," too!

[UrbScotty]

33. It's a valuable, necessary and important component of language. (nt)

[WinkyDink]

45. Your irony is ironic, for you DO ask your readers to pause without your actually being clear about

it.

[UrbScotty]

53. I write whatever I want, desire and wish to write.

[Arugula Latte]

34. I'm very Pro. It adds needed clarity.

[ashling]

42. You - and others in this thread that agree -

are right

[Owl]

55. I agree.

[hunter]

37. As usual, I'll use commas and generally mangle grammar wherever I damned please.

[AngryAmish]

39. Never. I mean, ever.

[ashling]

43. You - and others in this thread that agree

are wrong. That is all.

[Zavulon]

40. Hate it. Absolutely hate it. (NT)

[WinkyDink]

44. FOR. And while I'm at it---WTH happened to the comma AFTER the appositive?!

I had to ARGUE with a funeral director over the use of a comma in the newspaper copy of an obituary!

[Tobin S.]

52. I use the Oxford comma. However, I really like that Vampire Weekend tune, too.

I guess I'm pretty open-minded on the issue. I'm not much of a grammar Nazi. As long as I can understand what you are trying to say, I'm good with how you are saying it. I know when I first started posting on DU my grammar was terrible. I saved posts form back then, and it was pretty embarrassing to go back and see how bad of a writer I was. Nobody really gave me a hard time about it, though, at least not that I can recall, and I learned a great deal about grammar and writing as I read and posted here over the years. Going back to college helped a great deal, too.

I think the reason I was able to learn a lot from DU is that a lot of college-educated people post here. It may not always be a safe place for your ideas here, but it has proven to be, at least for me, a safe place to hone your writing skills.

[Blue_In_AK]

57. I am a big fan of commas, properly used;

semicolons, also, properly used; and two spaces after a period at the of a sentence. I don't care what these young whippersnappers say.

[raccoon]

61. ITA, 2 spaces after the period at the end of a sentence. nt

[Paula Sims]

62. There's no way I will ever agree with Weird Al on this one. . .

Oxford Comma all the way!

(must have sound!)