What do you think of this?

[Bertha Venation]

I'm a member of the Maryland Choral Society, a wonderfully talented chorus. It humbles me to think that I passed an audition and was accepted into this group.

It seems to be assumed that everyone in this group sings in a church choir and is a Christian. The president of the chorus is a Baptist pastor. I'm an atheist.

I can deal with this. I can sing sacred texts and standard religious carols and such. I see myself as an actor when I do this. The words mean nothing to me.

I'm facing something unique in my life. I'm somewhat apprehensive about coming out as an atheist. I wouldn't make an announcement, but I would come out in one-on-one conversation. I have already been asked twice what church I sing with. I just said "none right now" once and "this is my only group right now" to the other.

It is not important to me to flatly set the record straight. I don't have any notions that I must be true to myself, to be out fully so that I can sleep at night.

I just don't like dodging questions, and am apprehensive about how/when to answer fully.

Your thoughts?

Oh - just got an email from the president. A member's toddler grandson died today, and he's asked us to remember the family in prayer. This is an email to a secular chorus.

[sarge43]

1. On the rare occasion I'm asked I repeat what's on my dog tags,

"No religious preference." If pressed, I just answer I prefer not to say. Unless you're applying for admittance to a seminary or a convent, it's no one's business.

As for prayer, I share Robert Heinlein's opinion, "It can't hurt; it might help."

[clarice]

2. Bertha, that's a tough one.....kudos to you for being able....

to compartmentalize your love of singing and the non-secular songs. I guess a good parallel
would be that I am not religious either, but I LOVE The Staple Singers and Mahalia Jackson.

If I were asked to offer any advice, I would say that you are not REALLY dodging the question with the answers
that you have been giving since it IS a very personal type of question. HOWEVER....if some one is persistent,
I would politely say "That's an awfully personal question"

[mnhtnbb]

3. People are probably just being friendly and asking about your singing life.

Seems like both your answers are fine. I suspect that a lot of people who grew up singing
in church may continue to do so without 'feeling' the spirit.

As to the e-mail and asking people to pray, you can respond to the member who lost her grandson with a heartfelt
condolence or expression of sympathy without referring to prayer or religious life. People do that all the time.

[HERVEPA]

4. Just say "I don't belong to any church"

Very simple. If they ask why not, say I'm not religious. If they push further, say I'm an atheist. What's the big deal? You're in Maryland, not S. Carolina. You're not going to be shunned. People need to be educated that not everyone is Christian or religious or believes in a god.

[Phentex]

7. That's what I would say...

"I don't sing with a church." Why not? "Because I don't belong to one."

I don't think it would go much further than that.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

5. I live deep inthe Bible Belt and it can be rough.

If I know my atheism is going to be a big, unproductive problem, I just say I am Unitarian. I was raised as such and you are allowed to believe whatever you want in the church.

[elleng]

6. I'd avoid it,

even here in 'liberal' MD. 'This is my group' sounds fine to me.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. I have sung in church choirs, and currently I'm a member

of a small choral group that is not specifically affiliated with any church but performs a lot of early church music, which I just love. We also occasionally sing for liturgies when hired to do so (variously, Episcopal, Lutheran and Catholic). None of this bothers me in the least although I'm not a believer. I guess I'd call myself an agnostic rather than an atheist, but the point is that I'm not religious and don't attend church except for weddings and funerals, or when we're singing for some event. I've never been asked about my religious beliefs in connection with this activity, although I have been approached a few times about joining church choirs (I did end up at a Christmas eve service in a local choir because they were missing some people and needed a "ringer&quot . Anyhow, when asked my response is usually something like, "Thanks, but I'm not really into church, and anyhow I like to sleep in on Sunday mornings." This seems to have satisfied everyone who's asked.

I live in a part of the country where most people regard religion as a personal thing and none of anyone else's business. It might be a different story in parts of the South, where it seems like the first thing you are asked when meeting someone new is what church you go to. The only person who ever flat-out asked me what church I went to was a guy I used to work with who was from Georgia (or maybe it was Alabama). In these parts that would be considered a rather rude and nosy question, and IIRC I just sidestepped it with something vague.

But anyhow, you might try the answer I used - just smile and say "I like to sleep in on Sunday mornings," and maybe add that you get your spiritual energy from (nature, music, cats, whatever).

Also, with respect to the death of the child, you could offer your condolences and a comment to the effect that your thoughts are with the family, etc.

[hunter]

9. Putting people at ease is the right thing to do. Most people are asking as a friendly question.

The rare nasty people who might be looking to label someone a demon will be disarmed if you don't take their bait.

That you even think about the "right" thing to do makes you a good person.

That's what I think.

[rug]

10. Why not simply tell the truth?

[panader0]

11. Honesty is always the best policy.

As an atheist, I have no god, only morals and ethics. Primary among these is honesty.

[Tobin S.]

12. Discrimination. Social stigma. Bigotry.

It can be considered downright scandalous to be a known atheist or an agnostic in some settings. I'm not saying all religious people are like that, but a lot of them are.

[rug]

13. This is a chorus, not a Teamsters local. I can see some clucking perhaps, but not much more.

One refreshing thing about atheism is exposing myths and encouraging reality.

[Tobin S.]

15. I'm telling you why some people choose to keep it to themselves.

Word spreads fast, too, especially in smaller communities.

Not all non-believers are like the AA group. In fact, I think most of them are not. I live in a town of about 40,000 people in Indiana which, of course, is a very conservative area of the country. I have religious people knock on my door and invite me to church. There are people who occasionally hold religiously themed signs at the corners of busy intersections here. Nobody has a problem proclaiming their faith here to all who will listen.

I've lived here for over five years. Not once has someone told me that they are an atheist or an agnostic. I've never heard anyone talking about it here. It's not because there are no atheists or agnostics here.

[rug]

18. My wife went to IU East in your town and she grew up in Carthage.

I know the place.

Not all believers, I daresay far from most believers, turn aghast at the word atheist. My bet is most care about atheism as much as they care about religion. Which is to say, you'll hear the Pacers mentioned far more than either.

What is fruitful is people getting to know each other genuinely. What is toxic is people hiding themselves and masquerading in front of others. What is tragic is when it happens based on mistaken perceptions of how others will react.

[Tobin S.]

19. Perception is what matters to many people here.

I've never lived in a place where people are more concerned about their image. The place is pretty white, but we have a small African-American community. Last summer we had a black man take care of our lawn for us. One of our neighbors was clearly upset about that. He didn't like the idea of black people being in his neighborhood and he told us that. Being a racist asshole, I'm sure he had visions of his property value going in steep decline just by word getting around that black people were seen close to it.

And it's not masquerading and hiding if you simply choose not to participate in religion. People simply aren't vocal about it. They are not on a mission. Atheists usually do not stand on street corners proclaiming their lack of belief to begin with. They don't go out and recruit. Couple that with being a member of a community that is more religious than average, and attach that to social norms, and you have what we have here.

I'm an agnostic, rug. I tell that to people when they ask me about my beliefs. I'm not hiding or masquerading. So, what I'm saying here doesn't apply to me. Believe me, social stigma and discrimination against non-believers is very high. You just have to take a look at our politicians to understand that. They will almost all proclaim religious belief when asked. It is likely that a much lower percentage of them actually have faith in religion.

[rug]

20. Well, I don't live there so I'll defer to your observations.

Still, I think people are more similar than not regardless of location.

What irks me personally is that the subtle social pressure that causes people to check themselves, if not self-censor, is what helps rulers rule.

BTW, here is an atheist who not only stood on a corner, but crossed the road. Not the usual case I grant you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218198281

[CrawlingChaos]

14. I don't think this is that unusual

I have a good friend who is an atheist and sings in a church choir. She really loves it and they have no problem with it.

[LNM]

16. My guess is that if this is a secular chorus, you're not the only atheist in it.

I can't answer your question on how to come out. When I was asked at the doctor's office if I would like my religious affiliation in my file I told them "yes" and that I was a "none". She looked somewhat taken aback but didn't comment. It was a new question and she's probably heard it several times since then.

If you're asked about how you feel about singing religious songs when you're an atheist, I liken it to seeing religious art. If you care about art (or music) from a certain historical period all there is is religious material. The churches commissioned it. So of course it's religious.

Hope this helps.

[Enrique]

17. suggest this as your next song

[Kali]

21. I understand the discomfort.

I usually say something like "I am not really religious" and usually they back off. If pressed I might become more "forthright" in my explanation to their nosy damn questions.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

22. If you enjoy your singing,

more-so than being identified as 'whatever', than say nothing and keep it your secret. Its a great secret to have btw. Savor what you enjoy and are doing rather than pumping up your 'identity' or allowing your ego to be unnecessarily combative. Keep your powder dry.

[KMOD]

23. Just keep singing and enjoying it.

As far as the email, a heartbreaking one, you don't have to write back. If you see the member, just tell them that you are very sorry for the loss of their grandson and that you are thinking of them and leave it at that.

And if your asked directly about your beliefs, answer them directly.

And when they ask what church you sing with, answer, "I don't".

Just have fun.