Two & a half year update on my neighbor's murder:

[Coventina]

Hi all. For those of you who might remember....

A young woman who lived alone about four houses away from me was murdered in her home (beaten to death).

The murder still is yet to be solved.

DNA evidence cleared the boyfriend (always the obvious suspect).

Now, the police are asking neighbors to volunteer their DNA.

We haven't been asked, yet.

I'm sort of glad. I mean, I didn't kill her, but I don't want to give the PD my DNA. I just find something creepy about that.

What do you guys think?

[TXCritter]

1. That's a loaded question

I'd want to know, is this standard procedure now? What's the demographic of your neighborhood? Assuming your neighborhood is not rich and white, would they follow this same procedure in a rich, white neighborhood? HAVE they done so?

There is a distinct question here as to whether the police have a legitimate interest, articulable suspicion or probable cause to make this request. Or is this a fishing expedition?

Any chance you can find and consult with a local NLG attorney who specializes in civil rights and/or criminal defense?

[jberryhill]

4. Yes, it is perfectly fine for the police to make a request for voluntary cooperation

In the context of the police asking if people want to do it by consent, none of the other issues of "level of suspicion" are in play.

There are a variety of situations where a search does or does not require a warrant. Consent is the most common warrantless search.

[Coventina]

8. My neighborhood is a bit of a strange one.

Right now, I would say it is a predominantly rich and white neighborhood, but with some significant caveats.

It was built as a working-class neighborhood in the 1950s, right next door to a large Reservation. As in, right across the next major street (two blocks to the east).

As the neighborhood matured, it became a low-rent area and a lot of Latino families moved in. Now, however, it is rapidly "gentrifying", and real estate prices are INSANE! (The house next door to us sold for half a million!)

So, while we still have a significant minority of Latino families, it is rapidly "whitening" and "wealthy-ing". But, there are also large numbers of Native Americans who shop, dine, and recreate here, although they live on the tribal lands. So, it's really a pretty unique neighborhood.

Because of this insane housing bubble, a lot of people have sold and moved out since the murder. So, I personally think the murderer is probably long gone.

[jberryhill]

2. You don't have to if you don't want to

An alternative would be to contact a lab and see if you can have them do the test, maintain your result in confidence, offer to have them compare it to the profile supplied by the police, and then to confirm to the police whether or not there is a match with that of the suspect.

That way, an independent objective party provides the police with the answer they are after without providing them your DNA profile.

You can make that offer to the police when they ask.

[LisaL]

5. But that you have to pay for it. And I presume it isn't cheap.

Anyhow, are they asking DNA from males or both males and females?

[Coventina]

9. That's the weird thing. The PD told us about two years ago the DNA showed the killer was male.

But now they are asking for both male AND female DNA.

[Tanuki]

26. Maybe they think it could be a relative of someone living there....

for example, a mother might be tested and they might find she was a partial match. Her male relatives, e.g. a son who no longer lives in the nrighborhood ir a brother who was visiting from out of town, would then be persons of interest.

[Coventina]

27. Ah! That's helpful! Thanks!

Wouldn't apply to us, but that makes sense.

[TXCritter]

3. What about those untested rape kits?

My wife just made a great point. All over the country, rape kits sit untested. When they've processed all those kits with all those potential suspects, then they can come to you and ask.

[Coventina]

10. Good question.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio was notorious for not prosecuting sexual offenders.

[left-of-center2012]

6. I would do it.

There was a rape and murder some years ago on Cape Cod.
The police asked all the men in the area to give samples of their DNA.

All did,
including the killer,
who asked "What's DNA?"

(I saw the case on one of those 'true crime' TV shows)

[Warpy]

7. There is minimal risk

unless you turn to violent crime or become a victim of a particularly horrendous one, yourself.

If you're a woman, it's unlikely yours will be processed. Think of the backup in rape kits, we're just not on their radar as either perps or victims.

There is really nothing much they can do with DNA at this point beyond identifying really broad classifications. They won't be able to recognize you from it and it's a lousy predictor of disease or anything else. It does nail down identification when it's present at a crime scene or when somebody's looking for a baby daddy.

[angstlessk]

11. Well, you can refuse the test and become a suspect.

What that will entail...who knows?

[Coventina]

12. We've already been interviewed twice by the PD.

We were told the suspect is a male, as confirmed by the DNA.

So, that SHOULD eliminate me. My husband was with me the entire time the beating / murder took place (4pm - 1am).

So, if he chooses to give DNA (we still haven't been asked directly) I'm confident he would be cleared.

I just think the PD mishandled the case from the beginning.

If they thought DNA evidence would be helpful, shouldn't they have asked for it 2 years ago?

[angstlessk]

13. I totally agree...I would be wary of giving up my DNA

The case is old...are they willing to close the case by 'any means necessary'?

[Coventina]

14. That's what I'm thinking.

I'm just really frustrated with the PD over this case.

ONE MONTH AFTER the murder, they told us to look for someone in the neighborhood with scratches on his face and arms.

Um....why didn't you tell us this at the FIRST meeting, 3 days after the murder?

[WinkyDink]

33. DNA lives on.

[TeamPooka]

18. PD's don't work to clear anyone. They work to convict someone, sometimes anyone. nt

[Catmusicfan]

23. I would not volunteer.

This is happening since early 2000: example below


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-dragnet/


And remember in recent rulings how Supreme court saying how employers can ask for Facebook/Twitter log in. How smart phones info is being collected. This is just eroding away our 4th amendment rights.

[elfin]

15. Are they including friends of the boyfriend?

He may have arranged it.

[Coventina]

16. No idea. The PD have been VERY tight-lipped about the case.

To the point that I think it has been detrimental.

As I posted earlier, they told us a MONTH AFTER the murder, to look for men in the neighborhood with scratches on their face and arms.

[Demsrule86]

17. Why not? It will help eliminate people.

[Coventina]

19. They already know it's a male, not a female.

Why waste taxpayer money?

[Demsrule86]

21. I thought you were talking about your husband....

I have no idea why they would ask the ladies.

[Coventina]

22. They're taking from both, from what I understand.

If I find out I'm wrong, I'll update.

[NCTraveler]

24. Are there a lot of families living in different houses throughout the neighborhood.

A good frien of mine growing up was Italian. Four Italian families owned a good portion of the neighborhood.

They know not everyone is going to go along with the request. But it can still be linked to a family if some in a family give it and some don't.

[Demsrule86]

32. Very odd...must be so scary living near where a woman was murdered.

[Coventina]

36. I swear there's something in the water here.

In the past 2 & 1/2 years since Allison's murder we've had, just in a few blocks radius:

A suicide by cop (guy ran out in the street brandishing a gun)
Two neighbors went across the street and murdered two other neighbors
The couple who owned the house next door (and sold it for 1/2 million) then did a double suicide shortly thereafter

And now, just a week or so ago, a couple did a murder-suicide!!

So, that's 8 violent deaths in 2 & 1/2 years in just a very small area.

[Demsrule86]

37. Lord! Can I ask where you are located...that is awful...

a little gallows humor...are you built on an Native American graveyard>

[Coventina]

40. We might be.

I live in what's called "South Scottsdale."

When people think "Scottsdale,AZ" they generally are not thinking of our neighborhood, which has historically been solidly lower middle class. Although, as I mentioned upthread, lately the neighborhood has rapidly been changing into a wealthy area, so it's kind of a radical mix right now.

We live on the ruins of the Hohokam civilization, so who knows?

Also, it is a Superfund site: Motorola poisoned the groundwater here decades ago. So, when I suspect something in the water, it might literally be true.

[Demsrule86]

43. Wow, hubs has family in Arizona.

I don't know where...much older than us and not really a close family. Please stay safe and update me on this...so scary.

[Kali]

20. I sure as hell wouldn't do it. jberryhill gives a good option if you feel like cooperating.

hell, I wouldn't even let my kids' school fingerprint me so I could bring cupcakes to school. WTF? That is for criminals, not volunteer school parents.

On a sidenote, I think I may have grown up near your neighborhood. Sounds pretty familiar.

[Evergreen Emerald]

25. I think they want to make sure the "volunteer school parents" are not criminals.

I know I would feel safer if my school made sure those looking after my children had background checks.

[Kali]

29. well, we have different opinions on that

if there is an issue with some parent of kids in the school, it seems it ought to be handled if there is a problem. I am just not into pre-criminalizing everyone. I understand the paranoia, but I just don't have it myself.

I don't like the idea of my personal information like fingerprints going into a database. Bugs the hell out of me. Way too intrusive. Might as well demand a cheek swab or a blood sample, ya know?

[WinkyDink]

34. Well, ever since Jerry Sandusky was allowed to take boys out of school because he was

"Coach Jerry,"......

[Kali]

35. and what good would taking his or anyone's fingerprints have done?

[WinkyDink]

38. Made him think twice?

[Kali]

39. doubt it, just a formality if no previous record

"famous" celebrities get away with a lot of shit

[Coventina]

28. Cool! Did you grow up in Scottsdale?

In a Hallcraft home S. E. of Old Town?

[Kali]

30. figured it would be SE of Old Town (I remember when the rez was just farm land)

I grew up in north Tempe, McKellips and 68th St/College. Went to Supai and Coronado. (and ASU too, for a while, then to UofA)

[lunatica]

31. DNA goes both ways. Good and bad

If you're a criminal (I mean the general you, not you personally) it's bad, but if you have nothing to hide it can go a long way to help you if anything ever happens to you, and in the future it will be used extensively to cure illnesses and make life better.

It's also very easy to get without you volunteering. Fingerprints, a strand of hair, you saliva on the edge of a cup you just drank out of. From your clothes, etc.

[uriel1972]

41. It's a question of do you trust them...

Their motivation and competence.

[lunatica]

44. I don't trust them but there isn't much we can do

They already have as much information on us as they want. When I open the internet I constantly see ads for things where I've purchased stuff. And if I purchase something from a new place the ads change to show that place. If that isn't already knowing more than enough about us then what is?

This was bound to happen.

[alarimer]

42. The real problem is then they have your DNA on file.

Never give the police anything, make them go through the proper channels, if they feel it is warranted.

[TheBlackAdder]

46. +1.437 Million

[TheBlackAdder]

45. If they have the suspect's DNA, they have sex, height, eye color, skin color, hair color, blood type

.

The FBI used it to identify a serial killer a few years back.

Send it to Germany, they'll build a profile of the individual, as they are thinking about doing this on a wide scale.

.

[alphafemale]

47. Ain't no chance I would do that.

Beaten to death isn't some random thing.

99.999% probability she knew the person.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

48. Volunteer DNA? Why would anyone do that? n/t